Daniel Sprong Containment Thread Part 3 | Mod Warning Post #1

[CrosbyMalkin]

Back to Pettersson, the dude is just incredible. People keep saying that the Penguins need a puck moving top-4 D, I honestly think they might have gotten one already in Pettersson. The only flaw in his game seems to be his shot, because he's smart and shifty enough where his small size doesn't matter.

Since trade:

Pettersson 18 games 6 points +11
Sprong 14 games 6 points -4

Even with Sprong’s goals I think he has not played good enough to be a top 6 forward. 5v5 he has been atrocious and that is when you are on the ice as a top 6 forward. I can’t see him staying in that spot long if his 5v5 play does not pick up. The thing about Sprong is if he is not putting up points he is a liability and right now he is on pace for 34 points over 82 games. Just don’t see that acceptable for a one dimensional player. Someone like Rust could be effective at that pace because of his two way game, PK, forecheck, etc. I still think Sprong has a 50% bust rate.

Pettersson on the other hand looks like a sure fire top 4 defenseman. If he is doing this well as a 22 year old rookie I think it is very likely he becomes a 20+ minute 20+ point defenseman without little projection. In fact his 12 points in first half has him on pace for over 20 in his rookie season. I don’t see how the Pens could lose this deal. I think we found a gem for a bargain. Heard Pettersson leads all rookies with +15. He doesn’t play like a rookie.


**Mod Warning**
This is a containment thread. It is a thread for those who wish to continue to debate all things related to Sprong's time as a Pen, his current performance with the Ducks, his potential, the impact of the trade and anything else related to Daniel Sprong. If the topic annoys you, put the thread on ignore.

If you are only posting to call out other people for still discussing the topic, don't. If you are only posting to troll, don't. If you are not joining in to discuss the subject in good faith then don't join in. Put the thread on ignore.

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[Empoleon8771]

I'm not completely sure why Anaheim is still using Sprong in a top-6 role. He doesn't have an ES goal since mid-December and has only 3 points in his last 10 games, all of which have been powerplay points. He has been outscored 6-1 at ES when he has been on the ice and the Ducks have lost 9 of these 10 games. I guess it makes sense in the context that Aberg has dramatically cooled off recently, but still, I'm really not sure I get it.

 

[EightyOne]

I'm not completely sure why Anaheim is still using Sprong in a top-6 role. He doesn't have an ES goal since mid-December and has only 3 points in his last 10 games, all of which have been powerplay points. He has been outscored 6-1 at ES when he has been on the ice and the Ducks have lost 9 of these 10 games. I guess it makes sense in the context that Aberg has dramatically cooled off recently, but still, I'm really not sure I get it.

That is his role. It is top-6 or bust. Same as here.

Whether he can PLAY that role...well....they can send him down to San Diego and hope some other team doesn't try a go, lol.

TBTH, it isn't even a guarantee that another team would claim him on waivers to the AHL.

I can't imagine too many teams think he would be in a different spot on their own team.

 

[Shwag33]

I'm not completely sure why Anaheim is still using Sprong in a top-6 role. He doesn't have an ES goal since mid-December and has only 3 points in his last 10 games, all of which have been powerplay points. He has been outscored 6-1 at ES when he has been on the ice and the Ducks have lost 9 of these 10 games. I guess it makes sense in the context that Aberg has dramatically cooled off recently, but still, I'm really not sure I get it.

After Carlyle quipped Sulli about his usage.... he has to leave him there for a long time.

 

[Peat]

That is his role. It is top-6 or bust. Same as here.

Whether he can PLAY that role...well....they can send him down to San Diego and hope some other team doesn't try a go, lol.

TBTH, it isn't even a guarantee that another team would claim him on waivers to the AHL.

I can't imagine too many teams think he would be in a different spot on their own team.

I think there's too many teams with dodgy forwards rosters and the desire to have what Sprong could be for him to get through. Sure its a long odds gamble... but so are a lot of the guys populating NHL teams' forward rosters, and most of them offer lesser rewards than Sprong.

I mean... I think Edmonton's highest scoring winger this season has 3 goals. You're telling me Chia wouldn't take Sprong for free?

 

[EightyOne]

I think there's too many teams with dodgy forwards rosters and the desire to have what Sprong could be for him to get through. Sure its a long odds gamble... but so are a lot of the guys populating NHL teams' forward rosters, and most of them offer lesser rewards than Sprong.

I mean... I think Edmonton's highest scoring winger this season has 3 goals. You're telling me Chia wouldn't take Sprong for free?

You know he wouldn't do something like that.

 

[Peat]

You know he wouldn't do something like that.

Hmph. I should have known better than to make an argument based on him having common sense

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I'm not completely sure why Anaheim is still using Sprong in a top-6 role. He doesn't have an ES goal since mid-December and has only 3 points in his last 10 games, all of which have been powerplay points. He has been outscored 6-1 at ES when he has been on the ice and the Ducks have lost 9 of these 10 games. I guess it makes sense in the context that Aberg has dramatically cooled off recently, but still, I'm really not sure I get it.

NHL.com - Stats

NHL.com - Stats

 

[Empoleon8771]

NHL.com - Stats

NHL.com - Stats

"He doesn't have an ES goal since mid-December and has only 3 points in his last 10 games, all of which have been powerplay points."

I like how you conveniently ignored this part.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

NHL.com - Stats

NHL.com - Stats

How do PP points make him playable in the top 6?

You understand those are two different things?

Or dont you? Because that would explain a lot.

His actual p/60 while being on a top 6 line 5v5 is...

0.645 i.e. worse than Tanner Glasses Penguin career.

 

[Gurglesons]

NHL.com - Stats

NHL.com - Stats

Didn’t click the links, but is this showing Sprong has the same amount of points since the trade as Pettersson playing top six minutes versus bottom pairing D minutes?

Going further 2 vs 4 ES. For a player that was a sure fire elite player. 2 ES points in 15 games. A pace of 11 points. Seems a bit lower than Conor Sheary’s 30 in 16–17 you often cited as embarassing.

That being said, Sprong has looked good in the games I’ve watched. Wouldn’t be surprised if he gets a couple against us Friday, cause how else would it go.

 

[cygnus47]

I'm not completely sure why Anaheim is still using Sprong in a top-6 role. He doesn't have an ES goal since mid-December and has only 3 points in his last 10 games, all of which have been powerplay points. He has been outscored 6-1 at ES when he has been on the ice and the Ducks have lost 9 of these 10 games. I guess it makes sense in the context that Aberg has dramatically cooled off recently, but still, I'm really not sure I get it.

They’re trying to develop him?

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Didn’t click the links, but is this showing Sprong has the same amount of points since the trade as Pettersson playing top six minutes versus bottom pairing D minutes?

Doing that would probably be a good start. Team that can't score goals puts young goal scorer in position to score goals.

Going further 2 vs 4 ES. For a player that was a sure fire elite player. 2 ES points in 15 games. A pace of 11 points. Seems a bit lower than Conor Sheary’s 30 in 16–17 you often cited as embarassing.

That being said, Sprong has looked good in the games I’ve watched. Wouldn’t be surprised if he gets a couple against us Friday, cause how else would it go.

*'17-'18. I should also point out that Sprong isn't playing with Crosby, which was the whole context of the criticism.

That said, Sprong's overall point and goal pace in Anaheim as a 21 year old are still better than Sheary's last year as a 25 year old.

"He doesn't have an ES goal since mid-December and has only 3 points in his last 10 games, all of which have been powerplay points."

I like how you conveniently ignored this part.

I didn't ignore it.

You mentioned a set of stats and said you weren't sure why they were using him in that role. I provided a set of stats that suggested why.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Doing that would probably be a good start. Team that can't score goals puts young goal scorer in position to score goals.



*'17-'18. I should also point out that Sprong isn't playing with Crosby, which was the whole context of the criticism.

That said, Sprong's overall point and goal pace in Anaheim as a 21 year old are still better than Sheary's last year as a 25 year old.



I didn't ignore it.

You mentioned a set of stats and said you weren't sure why they were using him in that role. I provided a set of stats that suggested why.

Except one set is completely itrelevant to "top 6 time" since it includes PP scoring. Where as an accurate stat would show hes terrible in his "top 6 time" at the thing you think hes there for.

 

[Gurglesons]

Doing that would probably be a good start. Team that can't score goals puts young goal scorer in position to score goals.

Two ES goals in 15 games. So two goals as a top six winger.

*'17-'18. I should also point out that Sprong isn't playing with Crosby, which was the whole context of the criticism.

That said, Sprong's overall point and goal pace in Anaheim as a 21 year old are still better than Sheary's last year as a 25 year old.

Except Sheary put up 27 ES points and Sprong is on pace for 11 ES points. So as a top six winger Sprong is still the same player he was here. And for that matter Sprong’s pace has gone from 20 to 32. By playing top six minutes. Sheary put up 30 points last year in a top six role and you criticized him and Sprong is putting up a pace of 32 and you want that to be something to hang your hat on?

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Two ES goals in 15 games. So two goals as a top six winger.

Allow me to break you out of your vacuum and put this in terms you can understand.

Number of Ducks players with more goals than Sprong over the last 15 games:

Two...Kase and Silfverberg. That's it.

Except Sheary put up 27 ES points and Sprong is on pace for 11 ES points. So as a top six winger Sprong is still the same player he was here. And for that matter Sprong’s pace has gone from 20 to 32. By playing top six minutes. Sheary put up 30 points last year in a top six role and you criticized him and Sprong is putting up a pace of 32 and you want that to be something to hang your hat on?

Believe it or not, scoring on pace for 32 points beside Henrique as a 21 year old on the 2nd worst scoring team in the league is much more impressive than scoring on pace for 30 points beside Crosby as a 25 year old on the 3rd highest scoring team in the league.

Didn't see Degen's post. Feel free to move this to the Sprong thread. I'm just responding to people putting the kid on blast here.

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

Allow me to break you out of your vacuum and put this in terms you can understand.

Number of Ducks players with more goals than Sprong over the last 15 games:

Two...Kase and Silfverberg. That's it.



Believe it or not, scoring on pace for 32 points beside Henrique as a 21 year old on the 2nd worst scoring team in the league is much more impressive than scoring on pace for 30 points beside Crosby as a 25 year old on the 3rd highest scoring team in the league.

Didn't see Degen's post. Feel free to move this to the Sprong thread. I'm just responding to people putting the kid on blast here.

I suggest you check out Sprong’s overall numbers. They are not good and just as bad as with the Pens. When you look at the underlying numbers he has been a very poor player. The article brought up how he had one good game last season and that was it. It said you take out his 2 goal game for them and you got 14 games 3 goals and 1 assist with very bad metrics. The kid just hasn’t shown he is NHL ready yet. Maybe some day he will show that but I still believe he is a 50% bust candidate.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Is it? Yeah its not when theyre al PP points.

0.645 points per 60. Thats less tha Tanner Glass as a 4th liner.

 

[Coastal Kev]

The people bringing up the Sprong comparison are revealing that they have no understanding what the argument was really about.

 

[Ogrezilla]

The people bringing up the Sprong comparison are revealing that they have no understanding what the argument was really about.

What was it about? How the team should have made a spot for Sprong despite being a worse player than the guys ahead of him in the only role he may be suited for?

 

[Gurglesons]

Let's get back to circular arguments and longing for a 32 pt pace elite Dutch RW.

 

[Gurglesons]

The people bringing up the Sprong comparison are revealing that they have no understanding what the argument was really about.

Please enlighten me to what the argument was about..?

 

[Gurglesons]

Allow me to break you out of your vacuum and put this in terms you can understand.

Number of Ducks players with more goals than Sprong over the last 15 games:

Two...Kase and Silfverberg. That's it.

So, he's overachieving on a bad team that can't score? This was my argument for how he would succeed in the NHL. Glad we agree.

Believe it or not, scoring on pace for 32 points beside Henrique as a 21 year old on the 2nd worst scoring team in the league is much more impressive than scoring on pace for 30 points beside Crosby as a 25 year old on the 3rd highest scoring team in the league.

Didn't see Degen's post. Feel free to move this to the Sprong thread. I'm just responding to people putting the kid on blast here.

But, he isn't on pace for 32 points beside Henrique. He's on pace for less than 12 at ES. Let's be honest, he is producing about the same as he did here and that is with generous powerplay time and top six minutes. He's just not as good as you, Titor, and some others made him out to be. He's an incomplete player and he's succeeding on a team ravaged by injuries that needs scoring. I doubt they even keep him in the top six when they're healthy.

 

[Turin]

I'm not completely sure why Anaheim is still using Sprong in a top-6 role. He doesn't have an ES goal since mid-December and has only 3 points in his last 10 games, all of which have been powerplay points. He has been outscored 6-1 at ES when he has been on the ice and the Ducks have lost 9 of these 10 games. I guess it makes sense in the context that Aberg has dramatically cooled off recently, but still, I'm really not sure I get it.

Carlyle is a bad coach, for one.

 

[Riptide]

I think the thing to do now is just wait and see how both do. As I said before, with more time it should be pretty obvious as to how these kids do. I think just the sample size we have is already pretty clear cut. It's just frustrating when some persist in burying their heads in the sand. Oh well, more time will only make the situation clearer.