Craig Button's 2010 re-draft

[Natedawg]

And those are about all of his picks that had impacts at the NHL level.....weak.

Dont turn this into a Montreal thing, Tinordi was unimpressive all 4 times I watched him....didnt even look like a 1st rounder.

That settles it then. I will take arsmaster's opinion over Buttons.

 

[Scouter]

where would Horcoff and Eberle be on the Bruins...first line? I don't think you're helping your arguemant.

Well obviously Horc isn't as good as he used to be, but he's still at least probably #2 C quality, Eberle had more points than Hall, what more do you want.

 

[booyakasha]

Well obviously Horc isn't as good as he used to be, but he's still at least probably #2 C quality, Eberle had more points than Hall, what more do you want.

you're saying Horcoff would be #2C on Boston?

 

[Alberta Oilfire]

Seguin was playing with scrubs on line 4, Hall was playing with the Oilers best players.

Besides the rookie's our best players are on the same level as your worst players hahaha. Last year I would of been happy with either but man Hall really made a believer out of me. In the end though who cares they are both great players. Some of Button's other picks are just so much worse than a Hall, Seguin swap.

 

[crests91]

Contributing to a Stanley Cup sure is more impressive than contributing to picking 1st overall for eternity.

I assume your a troll or child. Seguin is lucky to have had the chance to contribute just as Hall would have been lucky to contribute had Seguin been picked first. Their ability level and more importantly their potential are not reflective in how their team's did.

I guess Seguin's 22 points in 74 games were more impressive than Hall's 22 goals in 65 games.

Obviously Hall's production was more impressive but no one should really be surprised he ended up ahead in points. He had more raw scoring ability and seemed to have a more NHL-ready body going into the draft. That being said I assume Hall had more TOI, more time on the PP and had more opportunity to step up offensively so the numbers are probably skewed slightly.

Seguin did absolutely nothing to prove he should be picked over Hall. People complain Seguin wasn't given ice time or linemates? That's because you have to earn them. He simply wasn't ready to compete regularly on an NHL roster while all signs point to Hall easily cracking the Bruins roster and being put in top 6 situations.

Seguin was not asked to prove he should have been picked over Hall. They wanted him to learn the defensive game that they covet so Julien put him on the third/fourth line for a majority of the season. Seguin was asked to try and do what he was uncomfortable with and it showed. Hall, on the other hand, was asked to produce offensively, something he has excelled at throughout his career. Also, I doubt Hall would have cracked the Bruins top 6, much less easily.

I can't imagine how anyone who watched Seguin and Hall last year could possible move Seguin ahead.
It is mind boggling.

I'm not saying it couldn't happen in the future... but last year it wasn't close. Taylor Hall looked like a star.

Too much stock should not be put into a player's rookie season, especially with players as young as these. People who have Seguin ahead now likely did last year as well. Taylor certainly looked great but Seguin showed plenty of raw ability. Its a draft for the future and players develop differently.


People need to remember this is one guys analysis. Its not the points or line number or skating ability that put Seguin in front of Hall in this guys eye's, its that in 10 years he thinks Seguin will be the better player.

 

[Future]

Seguin was playing with scrubs on line 4, Hall was playing with the Oilers best players.

He was not. Seguin was not playing with scrubs at all.

 

[GlassesJacketShirt]

He was not. Seguin was not playing with scrubs at all.

Seguin played a lot with Gregory Campbell and Shawn Thornton. But yeah, you're right, they're still more offensively gifted than Horcoff and Eberle

 

[Crusty Quinn]

Seguin was playing with scrubs on line 4, Hall was playing with the Oilers best players.

Seguin definitely wasn't playing with scrubs and the Oilers' best players even wouldn't be even first liners on most teams.

Top 5 line combos for each player:

10.74% EV 73 RYDER,MICHAEL - 19 SEGUIN,TYLER - 26 WHEELER,BLAKE
9.72% EV 23 KELLY,CHRIS - 49 PEVERLEY,RICH - 19 SEGUIN,TYLER
8.67% EV 37 BERGERON,PATRICE - 28 RECCHI,MARK - 19 SEGUIN,TYLER
7.3% EV 73 RYDER,MICHAEL - 91 SAVARD,MARC -19SEGUIN,TYLER
6.23% EV 46 KREJCI,DAVID - 19 SEGUIN,TYLER - 26 WHEELER,BLAKE

18.77% EV 14 EBERLE,JORDAN - 4 HALL,TAYLOR - 10 HORCOFF,SHAWN
14.92% EV 13 COGLIANO,ANDREW - 14 EBERLE,JORDAN - 4 HALL,TAYLOR
13.56% EV 14 EBERLE,JORDAN - 89 GAGNER,SAM - 4 HALL,TAYLOR
5.19% EV 4 HALL,TAYLOR - 83 HEMSKY,ALES - 27 PENNER,DUSTIN
4.84% EV 89 GAGNER,SAM - 4 HALL,TAYLOR - 83 HEMSKY,ALES

http://www.dobberhockey.com/frozenpool_linecombo.php

 

[Scouter]

you're saying Horcoff would be #2C on Boston?

Well when you have centres like Bergeron, Savard and Krejci on the team it's hard for anyone to crack it, even then Krejci and Bergeron did not have great years.

 

[Scouter]

Not to mention Seguin was playing in a very defensive system, so it's not like he was going to be able to play offensively as much, Boston's system doesn't suit his game at all, Julien benching him for it is laughable.

 

[GlassesJacketShirt]

Seguin definitely wasn't playing with scrubs and the Oilers' best players even wouldn't be even first liners on most teams.

Top 5 line combos for each player:

10.74% EV 73 RYDER,MICHAEL - 19 SEGUIN,TYLER - 26 WHEELER,BLAKE
9.72% EV 23 KELLY,CHRIS - 49 PEVERLEY,RICH - 19 SEGUIN,TYLER
8.67% EV 37 BERGERON,PATRICE - 28 RECCHI,MARK - 19 SEGUIN,TYLER
7.3% EV 73 RYDER,MICHAEL - 91 SAVARD,MARC -19SEGUIN,TYLER
6.23% EV 46 KREJCI,DAVID - 19 SEGUIN,TYLER - 26 WHEELER,BLAKE

18.77% EV 14 EBERLE,JORDAN - 4 HALL,TAYLOR - 10 HORCOFF,SHAWN
14.92% EV 13 COGLIANO,ANDREW - 14 EBERLE,JORDAN - 4 HALL,TAYLOR
13.56% EV 14 EBERLE,JORDAN - 89 GAGNER,SAM - 4 HALL,TAYLOR
5.19% EV 4 HALL,TAYLOR - 83 HEMSKY,ALES - 27 PENNER,DUSTIN
4.84% EV 89 GAGNER,SAM - 4 HALL,TAYLOR - 83 HEMSKY,ALES

http://www.dobberhockey.com/frozenpool_linecombo.php

Yeah, Hall was definitely with better players more consistently, and more importantly, he got consistent PP time and was allowed to grow in an offensive role.

I think the entire projection thing is important to remember. Just because Hall, who was claimed by even most Seguin fans as more NHL ready, had a better first year doesn't mean that Seguin can't catch up and overlap him at some point.

Seguin's raw skills are immense, and I think that raw is the key word. His skating ability is ridiculous, his wrist shot is as good as they come, and he has the vision of a franchise centreman. He was very tentative in his first season, some of it due to lack of readiness, some of it due to the coaching style of Boston, which demanded he play a two-way game that he wasn't fully comfortable with until the playoffs. I will say this: while he did not produce consistently in the playoffs, that second period in game 2 against Tampa showcased how dominant he can be, all four points showed a different strength that could, in time, combine to make him the player he can be.

One thing I disagree with the Button thing isn't putting him over Hall, it's more the whole concept of re-drafting after only one and two years, respectively, with the 2009 draft. These kids have only turned 19 and 20: give them some time to grow before doing something like this.

 

[Korpse]

Skinner's 30 goal rookie campaign propels him to #5, while Johansen's inability to make the NHL keeps him at #4.

Fascinating.

Like he mentioned on that's hockey 2nite, it's bass on potential not ability today.

I agree with some of the stuff he says but I respect the guys work. I strongly disagreed with his ranking of huberdeau at 3rd back in April, two months later it seems reasonable.

 

[Vic Rattlehead*]

Hall was much better than Seguin last season. That's all I have to say

Good thing this re-draft wasn't based on one season, but based on their ceilings and potential.

I think Hall will probably top out as the better player, but Seguin will most definitely be a 70-80+ point center in this league in his prime. Kid has all the skills in the world and is with the right coach for his development.

 

[Scouter]

Good thing this re-draft wasn't based on one season, but based on their ceilings and potential.

I think Hall will probably top out as the better player, but Seguin will most definitely be a 70-80+ point center in this league in his prime. Kid has all the skills in the world and is with the right coach for his development.

Well if that was the case then all they did was use last years Button's draft ranking, because their ceiling's and potential haven't changed since then.

 

[GlassesJacketShirt]

Well if that was the case then all they did was use last years Button's draft ranking, because their ceiling's and potential haven't changed since then.

^This

I personally would've prefered them going back to 2006 or something, that would've been more reasonable, or perhaps 2005 where Button would put Crosby at number two behind Gilbert Brule and then we'd REALLY have something to talk about.

 

[Korpse]

Well if that was the case then all they had to do was use last years consensus draft ranking, because their ceiling's and potential haven't changed since then.

Why use last years consensus rankings? Why not use buttons? After all this re-draft is his opinion. Also things can change in a year. Not only is it ceiling but also the risk. Skinner is a sure thing now therefore his ranking moves up. And a player like Connolly who had not progressed as expected drops down the list. I think it's pretty simple and few people are using their heads to understand the logic. Seems people would rather bash a guy who is more respected in the hockey world than themselves.

I don't agree with all of the rankings but opinions differ and He knows more than me.

 

[Wheatking]

Horcoff was the team's 1st line centre when he was healthy, not 3rd, and Eberle is just 1 player and a pretty good one.

Did you even read the post that you quoted or did you just take one sentence and decide to take it out of context? Again, as I mentioned in my original post...Horcoff would be a 3rd liner on most good teams in the league.

You either really love Horcoff and Eberle or you're playing stupid to make a point about Seguin. Hall didn't play with 1st line talent and Seguin didn't play solely with scrums. I'd say guys like Ryder, Recchi, Wheeler, Bergeron and Krejci are at worst on par with Eberle, Horcoff, Gagner and Cogliano.

 

[Mc5RingsAndABeer]

You can argue Skinner > Seguin easier than you can argue Seguin > Hall. This is hilarious.

But hey, we're all talking about it and they got the pageviews.

 

[Green Snow Storm]

Most of Button's rankings tonight were horrid. What a joke.

 

[Temego]

He might actually be the only person in the world who would pick Jarred Tinordi before Mikael Granlund. And he even thinks that it isnt close.

I'd rank them like this atm

Taylor/Tyler
Skinner
Fowler
Gudbranson/Granlund
Johansen/Nino

 

[King In The North]

Didn't he start the tear down of Calgary after the 89 cup ?

No he joined in 2000.

 

[Ninety7]

Imagine Hall on the Bruins...

I don't even wanna know what he could do. If he can score 42 points with a 30th place team I'm almost sure that he'd have no problem scoring 50 + points, winning a Stanley Cup and maybe even the Calder on the best team in the NHL. Then we wouldn't be having this ridiculous discussion.

 

[Temego]

Imagine Hall on the Bruins...

I don't even wanna know what he could do. If he can score 42 points with a 30th place team I'm almost sure that he'd have no problem scoring 50 + points, winning a Stanley Cup and maybe even the Calder on the best team in the NHL. Then we wouldn't be having this ridiculous discussion.

You realize he would play 3rd or 4th line minutes and almost no PP if he played for the Bruins..

 

[Hale The Villain]

You realize he would play 3rd or 4th line minutes and almost no PP if he played for the Bruins..

Tyler didn't get as much icetime as he should have because he plays center on a team with far too many centermen
Taylor is a winger and would get enough icetime to make an impact

 

[Vagrant]

It doesn't matter how deep of a team you play on. If you produce in your minutes, you will be elevated into a higher role. The truth is that Seguin for the lion's share of the season was pretty ineffective in a scoring capacity and didn't DESERVE any more minutes than he received. He only had 1 goal and 1 point in his last 16 regular season games despite getting about 199 minutes during that span which is about 12:30 per game.

Then he scores 6 points in 2 games in his first playoff action and everybody hops back on the train. Then he plays 11 games while scoring only a single assist.

Put Taylor Hall or Jeff Skinner in the same position, both players who earned their minutes albeit on worse teams, and you really would have seen a show.

I don't say this as a total knock on Seguin, but he wasn't NHL ready this season. Who knows what next season will hold, but this season was largely a disappointment from his development standpoint but obviously very valuable from a personal and team accomplishment standpoint.