Craig Button's 2010 re-draft

[Wheatking]

All true.

However, Seguin was a considerably shorter leash than both Skinner and Hall. One mistake for Seguin = benching. One mistake for either Hall or Skinner...nothing. Trust me, I saw both make normal rookie mistakes routinely and it didn't affect their ice time (lapses in defensive coverage, turnovers, etc.). Seguin, on the other hand, had to be flawless not to get his minutes cut.

That's why players like Bergeron, Krejci, Marchand, and Lucic have well-rounded games. Although Bergeron played a couple of years in the league before the arrival of Julien, he wasn't nearly as good defensively in '06 as he is right now.

Hall, Eberle, Paajarvi and Omark would all be benched if they had a bad game.

Hall just didn't have many bad games. I'm not exaggerating to make a point when I say Hall was our best player this season. He was the best player on the ice a lot of nights. Once all those chances start turning into goals he'll be a scary player.

 

[DJB]

There is a reason he is unemployed. Take a look at his drafts in Calgary. He was brutal...

He's is awful...

 

[rynryn]

fan of neither, from what i've seen so far I'd still take Hall first. Can't really go wrong either way--but IMO he just looked smarter with the puck.

 

[RE-HABS]

Cut what the guy has to say all you want, most of it is because it is a Montreal pick getting pushed up. A kid who didn't put up the points, or maybe didn't dominate because of his size and skill. Like Button said, the skill is there, it is raw and it will take time. But, in time that will be the pay off when he gets it all together.

The guy knows scouting;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craig_Button

He comes from a Hockey Family, his dad set up the Central Scouting Bureau, he was the Director of Scouting for Dallas and his brother still is for the Flames.

Some notable picks:

Derian Hatcher, Jere Lehtinen, Jamie Langenbrunner, Marty Turco, Jarome Iginla, Brenden Morrow

 

[jbean]

The guy knows scouting

The guy released a player that won the Hart trophy a few years later.

 

[arsmaster*]

Cut what the guy has to say all you want, most of it is because it is a Montreal pick getting pushed up. A kid who didn't put up the points, or maybe didn't dominate because of his size and skill. Like Button said, the skill is there, it is raw and it will take time. But, in time that will be the pay off when he gets it all together.

The guy knows scouting;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craig_Button

He comes from a Hockey Family, his dad set up the Central Scouting Bureau, he was the Director of Scouting for Dallas and his brother still is for the Flames.

Some notable picks:

Derian Hatcher, Jere Lehtinen, Jamie Langenbrunner, Marty Turco, Jarome Iginla, Brenden Morrow

And those are about all of his picks that had impacts at the NHL level.....weak.

Dont turn this into a Montreal thing, Tinordi was unimpressive all 4 times I watched him....didnt even look like a 1st rounder.

 

[AugustBurnsRed*]

Hall was much better than Seguin last season. That's all I have to say

 

[Toydarian]

It seems to me, that if you are going to re-evaluate a draft one year later, you should be basing it on what the players have done to improve and progress within that year. Sure, Seguin could be better than Hall and Johansen could be better than Skinner in the future but NOTHING has happened within the last year to suggest that will be the case.

 

[Scouter]

Don't take my post as hating on Seguin. On draft day I wanted Hall but I was fine with walking away with Seguin. I also spent a lot of time last spring defending Seguin to Hall fans that wanted to bash him.

With that said, the difference between Hall and Seguin was not just linemates and ice time this season. You can't just assume Seguin would have tripled his production had he been on a team's top line. He was a healthy scratch 8 times last season and missed the first two rounds. Even the most "veteran favoring" coach doesn't scratch a player capable of putting up 60 points.

Seguin played 9 more games and he still had 20 less points. That's a lot. Even if you include the 13 playoff games, he still finished the season with 13 less points than Hall put up in 22 more games. Two great games doesn't make all things equal. If it does, then I see Seguin's 3 goals in 2 games and raises him a hat trick. How does that make any sense? It's not like Hall didn't have some dominant stretches. He was the Oilers best player almost every night...even when Hemsky was in the line up.

It's not like Hall was in the most ideal situation either. Just look at who his line mates were. Eberle is a talented young player but he's still just a 2nd liner that will produce at a 50 point pace. Plus, Horcoff was his centerman. He should be playing on a 3rd line somewhere. So Hall was playing with 2nd and 3rd line talent while the opposition treated them like they were a legit 1st line because they were still the Oilers biggest threat...and the majority of his points came 5 on 5 since the Oilers coaching staff had a terrible system in place.

I also saw someone mention that Seguin going to be even better once he filled out. It should be noted that what got a lot of talk at the draft was how Seguin was so muscular while Hall looked like a twig...but Hall was heavier. He's going to be a beast once he fills out.

Again, don't take this post as an attempt to bash Seguin. It's an attempt to boost Hall. I tried to base my argument around what Hall did and not what Seguin didn't do.

How do you know, he was playing with not very good players in Boston when he was, which wasn't very much, so it's not likely he was going to produce unless he did it himself, which was difficult going up against NHL D's and not OHL ones.

 

[jbean]

How do you know, he was playing with not very good players in Boston when he was, which wasn't very much, so it's not likely he was going to produce unless he did it himself, which was difficult going up against NHL D's and not OHL ones.

Taylor Hall was facing the best defencemen in the western conference every night and he only got better offensively as the year went on.

 

[Future]

my favourite part is him saying cowen tops off as a 2nd pairing dman. while he may not end up as a first pairing dman, he doesnt top out as a 2nd pairing.

He said a lot of stupid things but you pick out that? A second pairing dman is still really good

 

[Future]

Taylor Hall was facing the best defencemen in the western conference every night and he only got better offensively as the year went on.

Hall is amazing. I remember watching him in juniors. Head and shoulders above Seguin it wasn't even close.

 

[Powdered Toast Man]

I like how he loves Tinordi but hates Cowen.

 

[Scouter]

Taylor Hall was facing the best defencemen in the western conference every night and he only got better offensively as the year went on.

Except that Hall had better players to play with to help him.

 

[Future]

Except that Hall had better players to play with to help him.

Except he generally looks like the better player. This is coming from someone who watched them both in the OHL and watches Edmonton and Boston games whenever I can. Well just hockey in general. Hall is just faster, quicker, has a better shot, higher hockey IQ, and just the better overall player. He was arguably the best player on Edmonton this year. Ice-time aside.

 

[Wheatking]

Except that Hall had better players to play with to help him.

As I mentioned in my post that you quoted, Hall was playing against the oppositions best players with Eberle(2nd liner) and Horcoff(3rd liner). Hardly an ideal situation.

 

[Canadian_Brewtality]

And those are about all of his picks that had impacts at the NHL level.....weak.

Dont turn this into a Montreal thing, Tinordi was unimpressive all 4 times I watched him....didnt even look like a 1st rounder.

i trust your scouting

 

[Scouter]

As I mentioned in my post that you quoted, Hall was playing against the oppositions best players with Eberle(2nd liner) and Horcoff(3rd liner). Hardly an ideal situation.

Horcoff was the team's 1st line centre when he was healthy, not 3rd, and Eberle is just 1 player and a pretty good one.

 

[booyakasha]

Except that Hall had better players to play with to help him.

which team finished last, and which won the cup?...how do you figure Hall had the better players to help him?

 

[booyakasha]

Horcoff was the team's 1st line centre when he was healthy, not 3rd, and Eberle is just 1 player and a pretty good one.

where would Horcoff and Eberle be on the Bruins...first line? I don't think you're helping your arguemant.

 

[Powdered Toast Man]

Just thought I'd mention that Seguin most frequently played with Bergeron and Wheeler until Wheeler got traded then he most frequently played with Kelly and Peverley. Not great line mates but not horrible.


This is according to Dobber hockey who has a nice database that keeps track of these things.

 

[Tom Brady]

I would riot if Edmonton trades Hall for Seguin.

Craigs Button has no ******* brain all his selections were terrible like WTF Tavares at 3rd, Hall at 2nd Skinner at 5th, and Gudbranson at 13th

 

[Scouter]

which team finished last, and which won the cup?...how do you figure Hall had the better players to help him?

Seguin was playing with scrubs on line 4, Hall was playing with the Oilers best players.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Anyone have a complaint about Coyle? It's nice to see that huge jump, but I don't think he really outplayed some of those guys.

 

[ohheyhemsky]

before calling people idiots make sure you know what year your player was drafted

It's Joey Moss. Give 'em a break.