Craig Button's 2010 re-draft

Natedawg

Lars Eller
Aug 19, 2008
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Edmonton
allowed 10 goals in windsor's last game in the playoffs, liked his character and that he stayed in the net the entire game:sarcasm:

Let me get this straight. How a player performed last season shows where they should have been drafted?

Comments like "Well skinner is in the nhl and johansson is not"

How the hell can you read 5 years into the future. We could look back on this and see him being alot closer than you think. Who the F* knows? A Player isn't draft based on how he will do his first year after being drafted.

Look back on this in 5 years...

Just my 2 cents.
 

SuperSaiyanBeastmode

Registered User
May 20, 2010
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Let me get this straight. How a player performed last season shows where they should have been drafted?

Comments like "Well skinner is in the nhl and johansson is not"

How the hell can you read 5 years into the future. We could look back on this and see him being alot closer than you think. Who the F* knows? A Player isn't draft based on how he will do his first year after being drafted.

Look back on this in 5 years...

Just my 2 cents.

still you can't ignore such a horrible ohl rookie season... and even if he becomes the best goalie in the world, he definately doesn't get to move up higher than he was drafted originally(he might not even be drafted if this was his draft elgible year if I had to be honest)
 

Natedawg

Lars Eller
Aug 19, 2008
1,777
0
Edmonton
still you can't ignore such a horrible ohl rookie season... and even if he becomes the best goalie in the world, he definately doesn't get to move up higher than he was drafted originally(he might not even be drafted if this was his draft elgible year if I had to be honest)
I agree you can't totally ignore it. If he is going to move up in someones rankings, there has to be merit for it. At the same time..the sample size is too small to merit going too far the other way as well.

If he has a huge season does he get re-drafted in the top 5? The only point I am trying to make is that you can't make a proper analysis on the draft order until 3-5+ years down the road.
 

Wheatking

Registered User
Sep 25, 2006
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I guess Seguin's 22 points in 74 games were more impressive than Hall's 22 goals in 65 games.
 

GlassesJacketShirt

Registered User
Aug 4, 2010
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Sherbrooke
I would put Seguin barely ahead of Hall, while Hall had the better season statistically, I personally believe Seguin has a higher ceiling down the line, once his body matures in strength, he should be a beast. However, no way Hedman is ahead of Tavares, Hedman was overrated from the start because he happens to be 6'6 and can skate like the wind, his hockey sense and vision isn't great. Aside from that, pure baloney across the board.
 

Lottery Oilers*

Guest
So basically every fan base agrees that Button is an absolute moron?

Its one thing to come out with laughable lists before the draft takes place but to have the benefit of hindsight and XXXX up this bad? WOW.

Literally, this might be the most telling signs of idiocy ever witnessed.

Brock Anton has more brains than Button.
 

Zeroknowledge*

Guest
I guess Seguin's 22 points in 74 games were more impressive than Hall's 22 goals in 65 games.

I doubt that's what was the deal breaker, Seguin was benched for more than 2 rounds, he came in and played like a veteran and stole a match by himself. I hate the Bruins but the guy's the real deal, had he played a regular shift and with top linemates he woulda had 50-60 points.
 

Leafs87

Mr. Steal Your Job
Aug 10, 2010
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Toronto
I guess Seguin's 22 points in 74 games were more impressive than Hall's 22 goals in 65 games.

Seguin played behind a very stacked up team, and Hall you could argue is probably the best player on Edmonton. Watching Seguin in those 2 playoff games were he was actually given a chance impressed me a lot. More then Hall all season? probably not, but remember Seguin was ranked 1st overall
 

Iamok

Registered User
Oct 20, 2010
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Swedish defenceman of the year - 15th Overall. I'm not even upset, I'm just trying to figure out the logic behind that...
 

Future

Registered User
Feb 8, 2011
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cocainehellweb.jpg


His 2009 redraft was pretty bad too (Tavares #3, Ellis over E. Kane, Schenn, Kulikov, Paajarvi, Kadri, etc).

There's a reason Ellis isn't in the NHL. His size and skating are huge issues. No way he is better than any of the players you listed and even some in the teens and even further back.

And Tinordi at 8 :facepalm:
 

goggog

Registered User
Sep 2, 2006
2,727
25
Canada
Contributing to a Stanley Cup sure is more impressive than contributing to picking 1st overall for eternity.

That means Seguin played on a better TEAM. Hardly means he is a better player.
Daniel Paille contributed to your Stanley Cup win but would you take him over Hall? Tavares? etc...
 

HockeyThoughts

Delivering The Truth
Jul 23, 2007
12,549
285
Mississauga
Contributing to a Stanley Cup sure is more impressive than contributing to picking 1st overall for eternity.

What do you want Hall to do about that? He was drafted 1st overall for a reason..and there's a reason Edmonton is drafting 1st overall again this year. One player does not make a team.

Seguin did absolutely nothing to prove he should be picked over Hall. People complain Seguin wasn't given ice time or linemates? That's because you have to earn them. He simply wasn't ready to compete regularly on an NHL roster while all signs point to Hall easily cracking the Bruins roster and being put in top 6 situations.
 

Vic Rattlehead*

Guest
itt: People bashing a 19 year old rookie because he had a normal rookie campaign on a stacked team where he couldn't immediately start on the top 2 lines.

It'll never ceases to amaze me that people still think Seguin is a bust.
 

Wheatking

Registered User
Sep 25, 2006
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I doubt that's what was the deal breaker, Seguin was benched for more than 2 rounds, he came in and played like a veteran and stole a match by himself. I hate the Bruins but the guy's the real deal, had he played a regular shift and with top linemates he woulda had 50-60 points.
Don't take my post as hating on Seguin. On draft day I wanted Hall but I was fine with walking away with Seguin. I also spent a lot of time last spring defending Seguin to Hall fans that wanted to bash him.

With that said, the difference between Hall and Seguin was not just linemates and ice time this season. You can't just assume Seguin would have tripled his production had he been on a team's top line. He was a healthy scratch 8 times last season and missed the first two rounds. Even the most "veteran favoring" coach doesn't scratch a player capable of putting up 60 points.

Seguin played 9 more games and he still had 20 less points. That's a lot. Even if you include the 13 playoff games, he still finished the season with 13 less points than Hall put up in 22 more games. Two great games doesn't make all things equal. If it does, then I see Seguin's 3 goals in 2 games and raises him a hat trick. How does that make any sense? It's not like Hall didn't have some dominant stretches. He was the Oilers best player almost every night...even when Hemsky was in the line up.

It's not like Hall was in the most ideal situation either. Just look at who his line mates were. Eberle is a talented young player but he's still just a 2nd liner that will produce at a 50 point pace. Plus, Horcoff was his centerman. He should be playing on a 3rd line somewhere. So Hall was playing with 2nd and 3rd line talent while the opposition treated them like they were a legit 1st line because they were still the Oilers biggest threat...and the majority of his points came 5 on 5 since the Oilers coaching staff had a terrible system in place.

I also saw someone mention that Seguin going to be even better once he filled out. It should be noted that what got a lot of talk at the draft was how Seguin was so muscular while Hall looked like a twig...but Hall was heavier. He's going to be a beast once he fills out.

Again, don't take this post as an attempt to bash Seguin. It's an attempt to boost Hall. I tried to base my argument around what Hall did and not what Seguin didn't do.
 

FiveFourteenSixOne

5-14-6-1
Sponsor
Jan 28, 2006
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itt: People bashing a 19 year old rookie because he had a normal rookie campaign on a stacked team where he couldn't immediately start on the top 2 lines.

It'll never ceases to amaze me that people still think Seguin is a bust.

Nobody is saying that Seguin is a bust. What we're saying is, that TWO good playoff games doesn't make up for an entire season in which Hall was clearly, indisputably the superior player.
 

Vic Rattlehead*

Guest
Don't take my post as hating on Seguin. On draft day I wanted Hall but I was fine with walking away with Seguin. I also spent a lot of time last spring defending Seguin to Hall fans that wanted to bash him.

With that said, the difference between Hall and Seguin was not just linemates and ice time this season. You can't just assume Seguin would have tripled his production had he been on a team's top line. He was a healthy scratch 8 times last season and missed the first two rounds. Even the most "veteran favoring" coach doesn't scratch a player capable of putting up 60 points.

Seguin played 9 more games and he still had 20 less points. That's a lot. Even if you include the 13 playoff games, he still finished the season with 13 less points than Hall put up in 22 more games. Two great games doesn't make all things equal. If it does, then I see Seguin's 3 goals in 2 games and raises him a hat trick. How does that make any sense? It's not like Hall didn't have some dominant stretches. He was the Oilers best player almost every night...even when Hemsky was in the line up.

It's not like Hall was in the most ideal situation either. Just look at who his line mates were. Eberle is a talented young player but he's still just a 2nd liner that will produce at a 50 point pace. Plus, Horcoff was his centerman. He should be playing on a 3rd line somewhere. So Hall was playing with 2nd and 3rd line talent while the opposition treated them like they were a legit 1st line because they were still the Oilers biggest threat.

I also saw someone mention that Seguin going to be even better once he filled out. It should be noted that what got a lot of talk at the draft was how Seguin was so muscular while Hall looked like a twig...but Hall was heavier. He's going to be a beast once he fills out.

Again, don't take this post as an attempt to bash Seguin. It's an attempt to boost Hall. I tried to base my argument around what Hall did and not what Seguin didn't do.


All true.

However, Seguin was a considerably shorter leash than both Skinner and Hall. One mistake for Seguin = benching. One mistake for either Hall or Skinner...nothing. Trust me, I saw both make normal rookie mistakes routinely and it didn't affect their ice time (lapses in defensive coverage, turnovers, etc.). Seguin, on the other hand, had to be flawless not to get his minutes cut.

That's why players like Bergeron, Krejci, Marchand, and Lucic have well-rounded games. Although Bergeron played a couple of years in the league before the arrival of Julien, he wasn't nearly as good defensively in '06 as he is right now.
 

Bjorn Le

Hobocop
May 17, 2010
19,593
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Nobody is saying that Seguin is a bust. What we're saying is, that TWO good playoff games doesn't make up for an entire season in which Hall was clearly, indisputably the superior player.

Yeah I don't think anyones calling him a bust.

These are pretty terrible, I defend Button a lot but theres no excuse for these, they're just bad. It looks like he bases it on if he likes the player and not if they actually deserve that spot. Tinordi in the top 10 is a joke, he was awful for London last season.
 

Vic Rattlehead*

Guest
Nobody is saying that Seguin is a bust. What we're saying is, that TWO good playoff games doesn't make up for an entire season in which Hall was clearly, indisputably the superior player.

Drafts are based on potential. Button isn't saying that Seguin is better right now, but that he believes Seguin's ceiling will make him the better player in the future if both he and Hall become stars in this league.

It's a simple opinion...why bash it? Samsonov outplayed all '97 rookies in the '97-98 season, but that doesn't mean people were wrong for believing that Thornton would be better in the long run.

FWIW, I think they'll be neck and neck in the prime, but for different reasons: Hall the better goal scorer, Seguin the better playmaker. No use crying about which is better right now considering neither are even close to their prime.
 

dem

Registered User
Mar 17, 2002
6,784
2,652
I can't imagine how anyone who watched Seguin and Hall last year could possible move Seguin ahead.
It is mind boggling.


I'm not saying it couldn't happen in the future... but last year it wasn't close. Taylor Hall looked like a star.
 

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