Confirmed with Link: Coyotes Acquire Datsyuk and #16 for #20, #53 and Joe Vitale

[ClassLessCoyote]

So far a good draft but a deep and complex minded individual like myself knows there's plenty of time left to know if the changes will work out for the long term.

Seeing that we don't know what was said behind close doors it would be speculation to suggest that Tippett had any involvement in this and for all we know our GM may have said to Tippett that he's doing things his(JC's) way only.

 

[Ebb]

So far a good draft but a deep and complex minded individual like myself knows there's plenty of time left to know if the changes will work out for the long term.

Seeing that we don't know what was said behind close doors it would be speculation to suggest that Tippett had any involvement in this and for all we know our GM may have said to Tippett that he's doing things his(JC's) way only.

I don't think it is speculation that Tipp was somewhat involved; after all, he is the Executive VP of Hockey Operations (and Drummond isn't a "hockey guy"), so he most likely had to approve any trades.

Now, did Tipp initiate or comment on any of the trades, that would be the speculation portion. I would guess that Tipp would prefer a possible D-man that could make the roster next season (in Chychurn) and another D-man that may be ready to make the leap from the AHL to the NHL (in DeAngelo) rather than the two 2nd round picks that would take a minimum of 3 years to progress (since they'd most likely have been D-men as well), but it's hard to say. I'm hoping Tipp let Chayka make most of the decisions (with minor input) at the draft and then Tipp can make most of the UFA decisions (with Chayka's analytics input).

 

[Guest]

If you look at it like this:
#16 = #20 & #53
Datsyuk cap space = $1.3M Vitale salary

then that is a pretty good deal. If those trades were done separately no one would really complain. The only people that are complaining (not necessarily Coyotes fans) would be the people that wanted Detroit to pay through the nose to unload Datsyuk's cap hit. In the long run it could be a very tactful trade that gives a win-win and doesn't burn any bridges with any GM's.

 

[Jakey53]

So far a good draft but a deep and complex minded individual like myself knows there's plenty of time left to know if the changes will work out for the long term.

Seeing that we don't know what was said behind close doors it would be speculation to suggest that Tippett had any involvement in this and for all we know our GM may have said to Tippett that he's doing things his(JC's) way only.

I don't think it is speculation that Tipp was somewhat involved; after all, he is the Executive VP of Hockey Operations (and Drummond isn't a "hockey guy"), so he most likely had to approve any trades.

Now, did Tipp initiate or comment on any of the trades, that would be the speculation portion. I would guess that Tipp would prefer a possible D-man that could make the roster next season (in Chychurn) and another D-man that may be ready to make the leap from the AHL to the NHL (in DeAngelo) rather than the two 2nd round picks that would take a minimum of 3 years to progress (since they'd most likely have been D-men as well), but it's hard to say. I'm hoping Tipp let Chayka make most of the decisions (with minor input) at the draft and then Tipp can make most of the UFA decisions (with Chayka's analytics input).

The FO was changed this year to have everyone on the same page. I sure they all had their own opinion and all worked together in unison and this included the scouts.

 

[Mosby]

Best thing about this move?

We can do it again next year when Pronger and Datsyuk are off the books. Might as well keep pressing the "free assets" button for as long as we can. Should work as long as there is no sort of NMC where we'd be forced to protect the player in the Vegas draft.

 

[hbk]

Dumb question. What happens if we toll contract?

 

[XX]

Dumb question. What happens if we toll contract?

Probably nothing, he's officially retired.

 

[hbk]

Probably nothing, he's officially retired.

Could we toll the contract for a year and potentially defer the year we take the cap hit?

 

[rt]

Could we toll the contract for a year and potentially defer the year we take the cap hit?

Let Pronger fall off first? That'd be cool.

 

[XX]

Could we toll the contract for a year and potentially defer the year we take the cap hit?

Don't know why you'd be allowed to toll the contract. From a contractual POV, he simply retired. If he didn't report you'd be able to, but he filed the retirement paperwork. More money will need to be spent next summer as well, with only Duclair in line for a major raise.

 

[hbk]

Don't know why you'd be allowed to toll the contract. From a contractual POV, he simply retired. If he didn't report you'd be able to, but he filed the retirement paperwork. More money will need to be spent next summer as well, with only Duclair in line for a major raise.

I just look at it and think with Vermette and maybe Doan coming off the books next year it might be more beneficial to eat the cap hit next year versus this year.

He's still playing in KHL so we could make an argument that he's not retired from the game.

 

[WrinkledPossum]

So far a good draft but a deep and complex minded individual like myself knows there's plenty of time left to know if the changes will work out for the long term.

Seeing that we don't know what was said behind close doors it would be speculation to suggest that Tippett had any involvement in this and for all we know our GM may have said to Tippett that he's doing things his(JC's) way only.

So the narrative went from Tip controlling everything, signing Grossmann types, trading all prospects away to Chayka now having full control and shunning Tip

I just look at it and think with Vermette and maybe Doan coming off the books next year it might be more beneficial to eat the cap hit next year versus this year.

He's still playing in KHL so we could make an argument that he's not retired from the game.

I don't really see us having any trouble fitting in the cap.

It would take something like this exaggerated scenario to get us to/slightly over.
Rieder=3
Stone=3
Murphy=3
Doan=4
Strome=1
Dvo=1
Bottom 6 FA=2
Top6=5
FA D=4
Domingue=2

 

[OriginalJetsCoyotes]

So for those who didn't like this trade. I just watched an interview on Chakya with EJ Hradek and he says that Ken Holland was going to keep the draft pick. When Chychrun was still available Chakya had to pull the trigger and give a little more.

https://www.nhl.com/video/nhl-tonight-john-chayka/t-277774708/c-44290103

I couldn't find the youtube video but here is the NHL network video.

 

[azcanuck]

I see the trade as reflecting the condition of the organization as a whole.

It's just bottom feeder type activity from this organization. They are so far under the cap and how do they address it? By getting a guy with a big contract in which they will not have to pay it in order to satisfy a league minimum requirement that is in place so organizations don't cheat there fans of a good product.

Nobody was knocking on detroits door to get Pavel off their hands. AZ was one of the few organizations in position to take the contract so the Red Wings could possibly sign Stamkos. It then begs the question who has the leverage here? The coyotes of course. They could have and should have gotten a lot more then moving up 4 spots and unloading a million dollar contract. Take the black hawks and the trade to the hurricanes of Brian Bickell and his bloated contract. They had to "throw in" temmo teravauinen for the deal to go through. He's a terrific young player. I'm afraid our JV GM just got schooled.

But perhaps saving the bucks trump everything for this organization. I remember reading numerous times how the owner of the Yotes state they will spend the money to pursue a better product. But it's pure lip service right now.

 

[XX]

But perhaps saving the bucks trump everything for this organization. I remember reading numerous times how the owner of the Yotes state they will spend the money to pursue a better product. But it's pure lip service right now.

The Coyotes will be above the floor without either contract. You're complaining the dinner sucks before you've even been seated. Patience.

 

[Mosby]

Teuvo was thrown in as the Hurricanes are on the hook for Bickell's salary. I believe it's north of $4 million. Big money for Carolina. Datsyuk is owed zero dollars

 

[azcanuck]

The Coyotes will be above the floor without either contract. You're complaining the dinner sucks before you've even been seated. Patience.

Actually what the Coyotes as an organization have served has sucked for a long time. Let's not kid anyone here. They are not close to being a contender.
They do have some prospects that are intriguing. Throw in a new rink and perhaps this organization can shake it's loser label.
we shall see. I followed the team in Winnipeg for a long time and have heard that mantra for a long time "be patience". It's a joke.

 

[BlazingBlueAnt]

Teuvo was thrown in as the Hurricanes are on the hook for Bickell's salary. I believe it's north of $4 million. Big money for Carolina. Datsyuk is owed zero dollars

Hawks also got a second and third back, plus they would have prob lost Teuvo in an expansion draft anyways

 

[WrinkledPossum]

I see the trade as reflecting the condition of the organization as a whole.

It's just bottom feeder type activity from this organization. They are so far under the cap and how do they address it? By getting a guy with a big contract in which they will not have to pay it in order to satisfy a league minimum requirement that is in place so organizations don't cheat there fans of a good product.

Nobody was knocking on detroits door to get Pavel off their hands. AZ was one of the few organizations in position to take the contract so the Red Wings could possibly sign Stamkos. It then begs the question who has the leverage here? The coyotes of course. They could have and should have gotten a lot more then moving up 4 spots and unloading a million dollar contract. Take the black hawks and the trade to the hurricanes of Brian Bickell and his bloated contract. They had to "throw in" temmo teravauinen for the deal to go through. He's a terrific young player. I'm afraid our JV GM just got schooled.

But perhaps saving the bucks trump everything for this organization. I remember reading numerous times how the owner of the Yotes state they will spend the money to pursue a better product. But it's pure lip service right now.

First they did not need to take Datsyuk to reach the cap floor. They have many RFAs to resign, they need to resign Doan and fill out the roster.

In the situation they were in the Coyotes didn't really have that much leverage. Detroit likely would have took Chychrun if the Coyotes didn't make the trade. And look who Detroit took at 20. Big difference from Chychrun, or Fabbro who went 17th.

Thirdly, Bickell is getting paid this year. Datsyuk is not. The Coyotes aren't giving a Datsyuk a penny. All he's doing is taking up cap space the team wouldn't have used anyway.

 

[azcanuck]

Teuvo was thrown in as the Hurricanes are on the hook for Bickell's salary. I believe it's north of $4 million. Big money for Carolina. Datsyuk is owed zero dollars

It's called leverage. Detroit was licking it's chops to get rid of the contract. that's the whole point. The coyotes could have and should have gotten a lot more from them.

 

[rt]

I see the trade as reflecting the condition of the organization as a whole.

It's just bottom feeder type activity from this organization. They are so far under the cap and how do they address it? By getting a guy with a big contract in which they will not have to pay it in order to satisfy a league minimum requirement that is in place so organizations don't cheat there fans of a good product.

Nobody was knocking on detroits door to get Pavel off their hands. AZ was one of the few organizations in position to take the contract so the Red Wings could possibly sign Stamkos. It then begs the question who has the leverage here? The coyotes of course. They could have and should have gotten a lot more then moving up 4 spots and unloading a million dollar contract. Take the black hawks and the trade to the hurricanes of Brian Bickell and his bloated contract. They had to "throw in" temmo teravauinen for the deal to go through. He's a terrific young player. I'm afraid our JV GM just got schooled.

But perhaps saving the bucks trump everything for this organization. I remember reading numerous times how the owner of the Yotes state they will spend the money to pursue a better product. But it's pure lip service right now.

You don't have a very good understanding of this.

#1 - The Coyotes will end up more than 7.5mil. above the cap-floor: This means that Datsyuk was NOT acquired to help the team hit the floor. I can promise you this. Check back in October and I'll prove it to you.

#2 - The punish the Red Wings fervor is fan concocted: There is this strange fallacy that Detroit would be severely punished by the other 29 teams because Pavel Datsyuk decided to finish his career in Russia. This is nonsense. Teams knew they could get something out of Detroit to take this problem off of their hands. The only question was which team would take the least. As it turned out, that was us.

#3 - The idea that we settled for too little is absurd:

A)Word is the next best offer was Datsyuk and Pulkkinen to Carolina for nothing. Pulkkinen is a dumpster dive. We got the much better deal.

B)We saved 1.3 million real dollars which will be immediately RE-INVESTED into our internal budget. That's money we can apply to another, real-life player that can make a difference.

C)We debated whether they wanted Keller or Chychrun at 7th overall. Safe to say both were in their top 8. If someone offered 20th and 53rd overall for 8th overall, they'd be laughed off of these boards. In the eyes of the Arizona Coyotes, that's the deal they pulled off. .

Conclusions:

I'd rather have Chychrun and an extra 1.3mil than Cholowski, Hronek, and Pulkkinen.

Detroit would rather have Cholowski, Hronek, and Pulkkinen and an extra 7.5mil in cap space than just Chychrun.

Both teams win. Rest of league loses. End of story.

If you're actually a Coyotes fan you should be celebrating this. It was a huge win.

 

[XX]

Actually what the Coyotes as an organization have served has sucked for a long time. Let's not kid anyone here. They are not close to being a contender.
They do have some prospects that are intriguing. Throw in a new rink and perhaps this organization can shake it's loser label.
we shall see. I followed the team in Winnipeg for a long time and have heard that mantra for a long time "be patience". It's a joke.

Lots of faux outrage from someone that sounds like they don't care. There's half an NHL roster signed right now. You really willing to complain before the roster is in place?

 

[rt]

Bickell is not the comparable for Datsyuk. Pronger is.

 

[OriginalJetsCoyotes]

The coyotes could have and should have gotten a lot more from them.

Maybe BEFORE the draft. Us drafting Keller when the whole league knows we needed defence and Chychrun, who'se projected top 10 by most, drops to 16 upped the price tremendously seeing as Detroit ALSO needs defense and we're not the only team who was willing to take the contract for a SINGLE year.

Detroit got what they wanted and we got who our scouts wanted in Chychrun. They've earned enough trust with our last few drafts.

 

[azcanuck]

The rules are the rules and the Coyotes aren't breaking them, but really, what does it say about a team that has to keep picking up "retired" contracts to just meet the cap floor?

Next season the Coyotes have $7,500,000 ( Datsyuk ) and $4,935,714 ( Pronger ) of cap being used up by players that don't play and today they have $26,703,176 in cap space. Think how much better the team would be if this money actually went to real players.

Yes they need to spend some money on there current roster. But the fact they can make moves like this and few teams can shows how much of a Goodwill organization we are.

Lets stay "patient". It's only been about thirty years of waiting save a blip or two.
The organization doesn't deserve "patience" from anyone.