Confirmed with Link: Coyotes Acquire Datsyuk and #16 for #20, #53 and Joe Vitale

[XX]

The rules are the rules and the Coyotes aren't breaking them, but really, what does it say about a team that has to keep picking up "retired" contracts to just meet the cap floor?

Above the floor last year without Pronger. You can just admit you didn't do the math and have no familiarity with the situation if you want. There's a whole big threads worth of this style of grandstanding on the trade board. It's been thoroughly debunked.

 

[OriginalJetsCoyotes]

We're building through the draft, saving our cap space for the young talents players we have in our system. If we can keep 80% of our young prospects and they project properly into what our scouts believe, we'll be a force to be reckoned with in the West.

 

[rt]

...what does it say about a team that has to keep picking up "retired" contracts to just meet the cap floor?

It says nothing about the team. It says something about you. It demonstrates that you aren't reading and/or following along with the replies to your posts, here. The Coyotes will be above the cap-floor by more than 7.5m next season. I assure. Now, do you understand what that means? If not, we can help you out with that.

Next season the Coyotes have $7,500,000 ( Datsyuk ) and $4,935,714 ( Pronger ) of cap being used up by players that don't play and today they have $26,703,176 in cap space. Think how much better the team would be if this money actually went to real players.

The Coyotes are not anywhere near being financially able to spend real dollars to the cap ceiling. Not even close. Maybe some day. In real dollars spending they'll probably be bottom five until they get a new building. Even then, I'm sure they'll spend less real dollars than the majority of NHL clubs. Hockey isn't very popular here. So there you go. They have budget. Pavel Datsyuk impacts that budget by ZERO dollars. Joe Vitale impacted that budget by 1.3 million dollars. Do you understand how that works? How we saved 1.3m in budget space on this deal?

If I recall correctly, Pronger will be LTIR and won't count toward the cap (including the floor) after the season begins.

 

[BlazingBlueAnt]

It says nothing about the team. It says something about you. It demonstrates that you aren't reading and/or following along with the replies to your posts, here. The Coyotes will be above the cap-floor by more than 7.5m next season. I assure. Now, do you understand what that means? If not, we can help you out with that.




The Coyotes are not anywhere near being financially able to spend real dollars to the cap ceiling. Not even close. Maybe some day. In real dollars spending they'll probably be bottom five until they get a new building. Even then, I'm sure they'll spend less real dollars than the majority of NHL clubs. Hockey isn't very popular here. So there you go. They have budget. Pavel Datsyuk impacts that budget by ZERO dollars. Joe Vitale impacted that budget by 1.3 million dollars. Do you understand how that works? How we saved 1.3m in budget space on this deal?

If I recall correctly, Pronger will be LTIR and won't count toward the cap (including the floor) after the season begins.

LTIR counts against the cap, its just that it allows you to spend that much over the cap

 

[rt]

Can you read...like at all?

AZCanuck, let us know which of these points you're struggling with. I'm sure somebody will be happy to expand and/or clarify:

#1 - The Coyotes will end up more than 7.5mil. above the cap-floor: This means that Datsyuk was NOT acquired to help the team hit the floor. I can promise you this. Check back in October and I'll prove it to you.

#2 - The punish the Red Wings fervor is fan concocted: There is this strange fallacy that Detroit would be severely punished by the other 29 teams because Pavel Datsyuk decided to finish his career in Russia. This is nonsense. Teams knew they could get something out of Detroit to take this problem off of their hands. The only question was which team would take the least. As it turned out, that was us.

#3 - The idea that we settled for too little is absurd:

A)Word is the next best offer was Datsyuk and Pulkkinen to Carolina for nothing. Pulkkinen is a dumpster dive. We got the much better deal.

B)We saved 1.3 million real dollars which will be immediately RE-INVESTED into our internal budget. That's money we can apply to another, real-life player that can make a difference.

C)We debated whether they wanted Keller or Chychrun at 7th overall. Safe to say both were in their top 8. If someone offered 20th and 53rd overall for 8th overall, they'd be laughed off of these boards. In the eyes of the Arizona Coyotes, that's the deal they pulled off.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

I see the trade as reflecting the condition of the organization as a whole.

It's just bottom feeder type activity from this organization. They are so far under the cap and how do they address it? By getting a guy with a big contract in which they will not have to pay it in order to satisfy a league minimum requirement that is in place so organizations don't cheat there fans of a good product.

Nobody was knocking on detroits door to get Pavel off their hands. AZ was one of the few organizations in position to take the contract so the Red Wings could possibly sign Stamkos. It then begs the question who has the leverage here? The coyotes of course. They could have and should have gotten a lot more then moving up 4 spots and unloading a million dollar contract. Take the black hawks and the trade to the hurricanes of Brian Bickell and his bloated contract. They had to "throw in" temmo teravauinen for the deal to go through. He's a terrific young player. I'm afraid our JV GM just got schooled.

But perhaps saving the bucks trump everything for this organization. I remember reading numerous times how the owner of the Yotes state they will spend the money to pursue a better product. But it's pure lip service right now.

Man, are you ever bitter. I thought that they should do better as well, but in the end, it cost us a second to move up in the first round, plus the dead money, minus the real money of Vitale.

I haven't come across this much bitterness since I bumped into that clown in the Jets t-shirt at the arena after the BOG voted to pay the league that $25 million in order to keep the team in Arizona.

This is still a good deal for the Coyotes. And, helping Detroit makes it less likely that Stamkos will go to a Western team or a Canadian team, which I like.

 

[rt]

LTIR counts against the cap, its just that it allows you to spend that much over the cap

So it's a floor issue but not a ceiling issue. Philly wanted to dump it purely for more offseason flexibility, though, if I recall correctly.

 

[BlazingBlueAnt]

So it's a floor issue but not a ceiling issue. Philly wanted to dump it purely for more offseason flexibility, though, if I recall correctly.

Yeah, it counts against the cap in the off-season and you can't ignore it like during the season, and in the off-season you can only go like 10% over the cap.

 

[OriginalJetsCoyotes]

I thought our discussion on this topic was long. Detroit's page on this is 10 pages long already.

 

[Matias Maccete]

IF we end up only hitting the floor because of the dats contract yeah it's bull. It remains to be seen if it'll happen, and considering where we're at player wise the odds are pretty low that it does imo. As for the value I think from a straight picks vantage, yeah we shouldn't have added our 2nd, but if you sub in Cych's name in for 16, it's pretty fair. It's also worth mentioning that we lost over a million of actually money we would've had to spend.

 

[LuckyNumber11]

We now have 1.3 Million that can go towards an arena per say, and instead of having a cap of 73 million, our salary cap is at 65.5 which we wouldn't hit anyway. And that's not because we have to actually pay that 7.5 million, it's just a handicap we gave ourselves.

That's the dumbest way to explain it and if you can't understand that, well then I suggest you need some extra reading comprehension taught to you

 

[azcanuck]

The fact that we are probably one of the few organizations in the NHL able to do this speaks volumes about our talent level and commitment towards winning.
I dont care how you spin it. This franchise is one of the biggest disasters in the NHL.
Last in attendance. Recent history shows we gave away our best prospects we developed like Boedkker and Turris.
Yes we have some studs coming up. product of sucking so long we draft low and got some good players. Now lets see how we develop them and if we can generate revenue in the new arena.
Lots of question marks.

 

[rt]

The fact that we are probably one of the few organizations in the NHL able to do this speaks volumes about our talent level and commitment towards winning.
I dont care how you spin it. This franchise is one of the biggest disasters in the NHL.
Last in attendance. Recent history shows we gave away our best prospects we developed like Boedkker and Turris.
Yes we have some studs coming up. product of sucking so long we draft low and got some good players. Now lets see how we develop them and if we can generate revenue in the new arena.
Lots of question marks.

None of this has anything to do with with the trade up to get Chychrun. You're now just saying stuff you don't like.

 

[azcanuck]

None of this has anything to do with with the trade up to get Chychrun. You're now just saying stuff you don't like.

Okay lets address that again.
Detroit had virtually no takers on pavel. Coyotes held all the cards. They could have and should have gotten a lot more.
Detroit is close to be a real contender and everyone knows they want stamkos.
The Coyotes's JV GM would have gotten skewered if he was working in montreal or toronto.

 

[rt]

Now you're just reading from the same bumper stickers you've already slapped on this thread multiple times.

Where am I wrong? I've made it easy for you to call out specific points:

#1 - The Coyotes will end up more than 7.5mil. above the cap-floor: This means that Datsyuk was NOT acquired to help the team hit the floor. I can promise you this. Check back in October and I'll prove it to you.

#2 - The punish the Red Wings fervor is fan concocted: There is this strange fallacy that Detroit would be severely punished by the other 29 teams because Pavel Datsyuk decided to finish his career in Russia. This is nonsense. Teams knew they could get something out of Detroit to take this problem off of their hands. The only question was which team would take the least. As it turned out, that was us.

#3 - The idea that we settled for too little is absurd:

A)Word is the next best offer was Datsyuk and Pulkkinen to Carolina for nothing. Pulkkinen is a dumpster dive. We got the much better deal.

B)We saved 1.3 million real dollars which will be immediately RE-INVESTED into our internal budget. That's money we can apply to another, real-life player that can make a difference.

C)We debated whether they wanted Keller or Chychrun at 7th overall. Safe to say both were in their top 8. If someone offered 20th and 53rd overall for 8th overall, they'd be laughed off of these boards. In the eyes of the Arizona Coyotes, that's the deal they pulled off.

 

[OriginalJetsCoyotes]

The fact that we are probably one of the few organizations in the NHL able to do this speaks volumes about our talent level and commitment towards winning.

We placed higher than 4 of the top 8 highest spending teams last year; Toronto, Vancouver, Edmonton and Columbus.

Source: https://www.capfriendly.com/

 

[rt]

Okay lets address that again.
Detroit had virtually no takers on pavel. Coyotes held all the cards. They could have and should have gotten a lot more.
Detroit is close to be a real contender and everyone knows they want stamkos.
The Coyotes's JV GM would have gotten skewered if he was working in montreal or toronto.

By the way, what return (specifically) would have satisfied you?

 

[OriginalJetsCoyotes]

Okay lets address that again.
Detroit had virtually no takers on pavel. Coyotes held all the cards. They could have and should have gotten a lot more.
Detroit is close to be a real contender and everyone knows they want stamkos.
The Coyotes's JV GM would have gotten skewered if he was working in montreal or toronto.

Are they? They have huge question marks on defense and in net.

They've progressively gotten worse over the last 3 years.

 

[azcanuck]

for most of us who think chayka screwed the pooch...it's not about getting what they wanted. it's the fact that they didn't get more which he should have done.

the fact he didn't get a pulkkinen or jurco from detroit to go with giving up their 1st was just way to damn much to give/not get from detroit to help them out as much as they did. the yotes didn't acquire anything extra from this move.

other veteran gm's this offseason have gotten a 2nd round pick and teuvo teravainen from teams in this situation. this is why he got shafted and any hockey writer claiming the yotes won at this draft is an idiot imo.

plus deangelo didn't replace the pick given to the wings, it was they're own pick that they dealt to tampa bay for deangelo.

so the yotes get a contract, a prospect crying after rookie season about not being in nhl and an ohl prospect for a 1st, two 2nd's and joe vitale. that is called getting taken behind the woodshed.

 

[OriginalJetsCoyotes]

No GM could have gotten more for that contract with Chychrun on the table. They don't have an indefinite amount of time to discuss the trade and the Teravainen pickup was before the draft. The key word here is circumstance. Do you know what that word means?

Definition: a fact or condition connected with or relevant to an event or action.

On a side note; I haven't seen one positive post from you.

 

[Sciamachy]

...

other veteran gm's this offseason have gotten a 2nd round pick and teuvo teravainen from teams in this situation. this is why he got shafted and any hockey writer claiming the yotes won at this draft is an idiot imo.

...

Carolina is also having to pay 4.5M in real dollars along with the caphit they took on. instead the Yotes are free of 1.3M. So a difference of 5.8 million in real dollars spent is a part of why they are getting 'more' in those trades than Yotes did. It's not complicated math here.

 

[TheLegend]

Okay lets address that again.
Detroit had virtually no takers on pavel. Coyotes held all the cards. They could have and should have gotten a lot more.
Detroit is close to be a real contender and everyone knows they want stamkos.
The Coyotes's JV GM would have gotten skewered if he was working in montreal or toronto.

Holland (Detroit's GM) and Chayka both said Detroit was going to take the pick and more than likely it was going to be Chychrun.

Detroit was about to take a player the Coyotes badly wanted at #7 but had Keller drop into their laps there and odds were heavy Chychrun wasn't going to be around at #20. So please explain who again has the advantage here???

 

[LuckyNumber11]

Okay lets address that again.
Detroit had virtually no takers on pavel. Coyotes held all the cards. They could have and should have gotten a lot more.
Detroit is close to be a real contender and everyone knows they want stamkos.
The Coyotes's JV GM would have gotten skewered if he was working in montreal or toronto.

I hope that you realize that Chayka being a "JV GM" makes this move that much better. He now is in good fortunes with one of the most well respected GM's in the league who's been there since 1997.

 

[rt]

I'll try to weed out your points, here. Let's start by striking all of this DeAngelo talk that is completely unrelated (so far as I can tell).

so the yotes get a contract, an ohl prospect for a 1st, a 2nd and joe vitale. that is called getting taken behind the woodshed.

You believe that Chychrun and 1.3million in real dollar savings is less beneficial for the Coyotes than Cholowski, Hronek and no dollars saved of real money? It's worth it to you to have 1.3 million extra dollars of actual budget space tied up, just to not have the pretend 7.5m on the books that has no impact of any kind of the team, just so you can have Cholowski and Hronek instead of Chychrun?

other veteran gm's this offseason have gotten a 2nd round pick and teuvo teravainen from teams in this situation. this is why he got shafted and any hockey writer claiming the yotes won at this draft is an idiot imo.

Bickell costs real dollars. Do you understand the difference?

the fact he didn't get a pulkkinen or jurco from detroit to go with giving up their 1st was just way to damn much to give/not get from detroit to help them out as much as they did.

So you're saying Pulkkinen or Jurco would've been the difference, here? That if only Chayka had convinced Detroit to part with some soon to be waiver fodder, you'd be on board with this trade?

So, in your mind:

Dumping 1.3mil and getting Chychrun for Cholowski and Hronek is getting taken behind the woodshed.

But Dumping 1.3mil and getting Chychrun AND Pulkkinen for Cholowski and Hronek is A-Okay.

Is that right?

 

[Mosby]

If you really want Jurco, just wait til September and claim him on waivers.