Confirmed with Link: Coyotes Acquire Datsyuk and #16 for #20, #53 and Joe Vitale

[azcanuck]

Carolina is also having to pay 4.5M in real dollars along with the caphit they took on. instead the Yotes are free of 1.3M. So a difference of 5.8 million in real dollars spent is a part of why they are getting 'more' in those trades than Yotes did. It's not complicated math here.

You mean carolina actually took on a real contract to get a terrific young player?

The Yotes "freed" up 1.3 million dollars for what reason? Are they close to the cap ceiling?

The Yotes are all about staying at the bottom of the salary cap. Carolina took the hit on a contract in real dollars.
It actually makes what the Yotes do even worse.

 

[Fyreman]

Last in attendance.

Man, you just keep calling airstrike after airstrike in on yourself, dont you??

2015-16 Attendance
Home
RK TEAM GMS TOTAL AVG PCT
29 Arizona 41 550,763 13,433 78.4
30 Carolina 41 500,363 12,203 65.3

 

[rt]

The Yotes "freed" up 1.3 million dollars for what reason? Are they close to the cap ceiling?

1.3 million REAL dollars. That can be added to the budget space. Do you not understand this concept? Do you know what the difference is between cap and dollars? Do you understand the difference between the player budget and the salary cap ceiling?

We can explain that to you.

 

[Ebb]

for most of us who think chayka screwed the pooch...it's not about getting what they wanted. it's the fact that they didn't get more which he should have done.

the fact he didn't get a pulkkinen or jurco from detroit to go with giving up their 1st was just way to damn much to give/not get from detroit to help them out as much as they did. the yotes didn't acquire anything extra from this move.

So, your problem seems to be that we didn't fleece Detroit enough in the transaction since Datsyuk decided to finish his career in Russia.

From my perspective, as long as we improve, I'm fine with it. Bonus points for Chayka getting some "good guy" cred in the process.

I guess, from your perspective, the goal of any trade is to make sure that only one team benefits in the end and the other gets fleeced, or maybe that's just because you have a problem with Detroit. Don't get me wrong, I despised DET when they were in our Conference (so I understand your bitterness), but they are no longer in our Conference, so it doesn't really matter to me since we only face them twice next season.

Would I have liked to get more? Sure, but not soon to be waivered (or useless) players just to say that "we got Detroit good, muhahahahaa." In the end, we drafted two "projected" top 12 players, so I'm fine with it (not thrilled, just fine)

 

[XX]

We're going to cry about Pulkinnen or Jurco? I'd rather have 53. Just fake outrage.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

You mean carolina actually took on a real contract to get a terrific young player?

The Yotes "freed" up 1.3 million dollars for what reason? Are they close to the cap ceiling?

The Yotes are all about staying at the bottom of the salary cap. Carolina took the hit on a contract in real dollars.
It actually makes what the Yotes do even worse.

It's one thing to piss into the wind, but another thing entirely to piss into the wind with your eyes closed. That's what you are doing by starting with false premises and following with false conclusions. Get your premises straight.

The Coyotes clearly did Detroit a favor, but one at no cost to themselves. It certainly lessened the opportunity cost of moving up in the draft to pick Chychrun. I would think that Detroit did a favor to the Coyotes, selling their higher draft pick at a discounted cost to the Coyotes.

 

[Howler Scores]

This team will never be a cap team. Nor should it. Cost of living, taxes, weather should get lower contract payments and revenue isn't there to support a cap payment. No need to worry about the 6 million difference.

 

[rt]

We're going to cry about Pulkinnen or Jurco? I'd rather have 53. Just fake outrage.

53 > Pulkkinen or Jurco - No doubt about that.

 

[TheLegend]

Reminder people we talk about the subject.... not other posters.

Carry on...

 

[The Feckless Puck]

I think it's hilarious that anyone in the hockey world is taking issue with how the Coyotes are using the rulebook to get to the cap floor while not spending a fortune.

FACT: This ownership group is not cash-flush. They have said that they will spend to bring in good players, but if they don't have to spend the money they won't. We're the Oakland A's of the NHL.

FACT: We're not the only team doing the bargain-basement cap-floor flirtation. Winnipeg was actually the team with the lowest cap number last season. If Winnipeg did this kind of thing, would they get the crap we've gotten for it?

FACT: Yes, Ken Holland took advantage of a young GM's desperation to get a particular prospect in order to dump Datsyuk's contract with little to no penalty. But it's not as though we didn't get everything we wanted out of the trade. It was obvious that Chayka was not in love with anyone in the 2nd round enough to need to pick there (see: DeAngelo trade).

FACT: Vitale's contract is every bit as dead as Datsyuk's was at this point, with the difference being that it's salary AND cap hit. Detroit is paying Vitale not to play. We're not paying Datsyuk a dime. That's good business, even if it's not good "optics" for the traditionalists.

 

[Matias Maccete]

I think it's hilarious that anyone in the hockey world is taking issue with how the Coyotes are using the rulebook to get to the cap floor while not spending a fortune.

FACT: This ownership group is not cash-flush. They have said that they will spend to bring in good players, but if they don't have to spend the money they won't. We're the Oakland A's of the NHL.

FACT: We're not the only team doing the bargain-basement cap-floor flirtation. Winnipeg was actually the team with the lowest cap number last season. If Winnipeg did this kind of thing, would they get the crap we've gotten for it?

FACT: Yes, Ken Holland took advantage of a young GM's desperation to get a particular prospect in order to dump Datsyuk's contract with little to no penalty. But it's not as though we didn't get everything we wanted out of the trade. It was obvious that Chayka was not in love with anyone in the 2nd round enough to need to pick there (see: DeAngelo trade).

FACT: Vitale's contract is every bit as dead as Datsyuk's was at this point, with the difference being that it's salary AND cap hit. Detroit is paying Vitale not to play. We're not paying Datsyuk a dime. That's good business, even if it's not good "optics" for the traditionalists.

Facts, pfffff, who needs 'em. The coyotes are the devil!

 

[TheLegend]

Facts, pfffff, who needs 'em. The coyotes are the devil!

But Mama... I not playin' no foosball!!! I playin' on some high quality frozen H2O.

 

[azcanuck]

So, your problem seems to be that we didn't fleece Detroit enough in the transaction since Datsyuk decided to finish his career in Russia.

From my perspective, as long as we improve, I'm fine with it. Bonus points for Chayka getting some "good guy" cred in the process.

I guess, from your perspective, the goal of any trade is to make sure that only one team benefits in the end and the other gets fleeced, or maybe that's just because you have a problem with Detroit. Don't get me wrong, I despised DET when they were in our Conference (so I understand your bitterness), but they are no longer in our Conference, so it doesn't really matter to me since we only face them twice next season.

Would I have liked to get more? Sure, but not soon to be waivered (or useless) players just to say that "we got Detroit good, muhahahahaa." In the end, we drafted two "projected" top 12 players, so I'm fine with it (not thrilled, just fine)

I'm starting to understand fans here have so low expectations that they seem to accept anything this organization does.
Sorry the proof is in the pudding here. This team and organization has stunk for a long time. To call them mediocre would be a stretch.
It's not about "fleecing Detroit". We have very little leverage here. We don't have much of a roster and we are not going to be in the market for marquee free agents. The ownership group doenst have the will and/or capital to improve this team.
This is ONE type of situation, maybe the only, where we actually had some leverage. We are so far below the cap that we can take on something like a Pavel contract. Detroit knew it. They were desperate. We were not. (except maybe the ownership group thought this was great, get to the bottom of the cap and not actually have to spend the money).
So to move up 4 slots is pathetic. They should have also gotten Detroit's first round pick or the players I've mentioned.
But our JV GM "got the guy he wanted" and everyone here is endorsing his move.
I'm not buying it sorry.

 

[TheLegend]

I'm starting to understand fans here have so low expectations that they seem to accept anything this organization does.
Sorry the proof is in the pudding here. This team and organization has stunk for a long time. To call them mediocre would be a stretch.
It's not about "fleecing Detroit". We have very little leverage here. We don't have much of a roster and we are not going to be in the market for marquee free agents. The ownership group doenst have the will and/or capital to improve this team.
This is ONE type of situation, maybe the only, where we actually had some leverage. We are so far below the cap that we can take on something like a Pavel contract. Detroit knew it. They were desperate. We were not. (except maybe the ownership group thought this was great, get to the bottom of the cap and not actually have to spend the money).
So to move up 4 slots is pathetic. They should have also gotten Detroit's first round pick or the players I've mentioned.
But our JV GM "got the guy he wanted" and everyone here is endorsing his move.
I'm not buying it sorry.

Okay... we all get it.

You don't like the deal.... you don't like Chayka..... nothing is going to change your mind so it's time to move on.

 

[LuckyNumber11]

It's really a shame that this horribly ran organization has compiled the #1 rated prospect pool, am I right?

 

[Muppet]

This trade has brought out the absolute worst in HFboards. It's completely mind boggling how a very simple trade has confused so many people. It was funny, but now it's just sad.

 

[Matias Maccete]

This trade has brought out the absolute worst in HFboards. It's completely mind boggling how a very simple trade has confused so many people. It was funny, but now it's just sad.

No it's still funny.

 

[XX]

This trade has brought out the absolute worst in HFboards. It's completely mind boggling how a very simple trade has confused so many people. It was funny, but now it's just sad.

There's a subset of hockey fans that hate sunbelt teams and will stretch out any point possible to bash them with. It's funny in this instance, because if you actually look up the cap numbers and understand how teams operate, there's really nothing to bash the Coyotes about. If you have little to no understanding of the situation, it comes off as Arizona being dat cheap crappy team again.

I had a guy on the main board argue that because the team was under the floor now, that was somehow indicative of how ****** the Coyotes are, and that the team should be fined/folded/relocated, despite about a half dozen other teams being under the floor for the same reasons right now (incomplete rosters).

Just remember while wasting time on trade threads that this is the general level of understanding you are dealing with.

 

[TheLegend]

It's really a shame that this horribly ran organization has compiled the #1 rated prospect pool, am I right?

Somewhere there's an Edmonton joke in that but it's really not fair.

 

[0point1]

I'm starting to understand fans here have so low expectations that they seem to accept anything this organization does.

Except for a handful of posters, many on the Coyotes board here on HF are very skeptical of the Yotes ownership/management. But in everything you laid out in your last few posts are weak attacks.

Claim: "The Yotes just got the Datsyuk contract to get above the salary floor and is proof of bad management/ownership"
The Yotes still have 10 or so roster spots to fill, they will be above the floor once all those spots are filled.

Claim: "Yotes spending near the floor is proof of bad management/ownership"
The Yotes are still in the process of rebuilding and there is no reason to spend all the way up to the salary cap. The Yotes took a big step in the rebuild by restocked the defensemen prospect pool in this draft. Still work needs to be done before they are a playoff team but there is a slight chance of being a bubble team this year or next.

Claim: "Yotes bailed out Detroit is proof of bad management"
The Yotes management and many others (including myself) were very high on Chychrun and when an opportunity came up to grab him without giving up an A prospect or B prospect it was a move worth making. Did the Yotes bail out Detroit? Yes. Did it hurt the Coyotes to take $7 million in dead cap space? Hell no not one bit!

 

[Ebb]

I'm starting to understand fans here have so low expectations that they seem to accept anything this organization does.

[blah blah blah]

So to move up 4 slots is pathetic. They should have also gotten Detroit's first round pick or the players I've mentioned.

But our JV GM "got the guy he wanted" and everyone here is endorsing his move.
I'm not buying it sorry.

If you would have read closely, you would have seen that I wasn't a big fan of it, but what's done is done. Theoretical yammerings about what we "shoulda" done is moot.

Feel free to look up some of my previous posts to see if I "accept anything [the Coyotes] organization does. Either of the players you mentioned would (most likely) not bring much (if anything) to the team, so he would just be eating up a contract slot that we could spend on a UFA. Admittedly, I wouldn't have minded Jurco, but they probably wouldn't have done it (they could just pick Chychrun--who has much more upside than Cholowski).

Some of us trust those in the Front Office (to an extent), so while it may have been a steep price, it's 2 "projected" top 15 players added to our depth. We can most likely fill Jurco's spot (if they would have been willing to trade him) with a 1.3 million (or so) UFA signing.

 

[RemoAZ]

If you would have read closely, you would have seen that I wasn't a big fan of it, but what's done is done. Theoretical yammerings about what we "shoulda" done is moot.

Feel free to look up some of my previous posts to see if I "accept anything [the Coyotes] organization does. Either of the players you mentioned would (most likely) not bring much (if anything) to the team, so he would just be eating up a contract slot that we could spend on a UFA. Admittedly, I wouldn't have minded Jurco, but they probably wouldn't have done it (they could just pick Chychrun--who has much more upside than Cholowski).

Some of us trust those in the Front Office (to an extent), so while it may have been a steep price, it's 2 "projected" top 15 players added to our depth. We can most likely fill Jurco's spot (if they would have been willing to trade him) with a 1.3 million (or so) UFA signing.

Nobody has been more disappointed in ownership and Tippett than me but to say this off season has been anything but great so far would be complete BS. People keep looking at this trade from Detroit's perspective. They keep talking about how we could have got more from them. First of all, nobody had fleeced them yet so obviously the huge haul people were expecting never happened. Second, we got a guy we were considering at #7 and dumped a contract for a pittance. Other team's fans can't understand that the cap hit we absorbed means absolutely nothing to us. Jumping on this trade was a home run. Detroit never gets taken advantage of and it wasn't going to happen with this damn contract.

 

[MIGs Dog]

This trade was GREAT for the Yotes. Review this thread 3 years from now and I think we will all be pleased.

 

[Jakey53]

This trade has brought out the absolute worst in HFboards. It's completely mind boggling how a very simple trade has confused so many people. It was funny, but now it's just sad.

Did you really expect anything else from HFboards?

I have no idea why some of you waste your time trying to convince and explain the trade to this poster. I don't care what others think, it's what we do that I care about. It's jealousy or stupidity or maybe in this case both, but the Coyotes had every right to do what they did. In a couple of years we won't be able to do a trade like this, but some other teams will be in the position because of their position in their rebuild.

 

[Shepard]

This trade was GREAT for the Yotes. Review this thread 3 years from now and I think we will all be pleased.

I agree. Taking in Datsyuk doesn't hurt us in the least, while getting rid if Vitale helps us this season. I have zero issue with parting with our 53rd overall to move up to take someone our scouts were considering 7th overall, especially when that player fills a big organizational need.