OT: COVID-19 Megathread III (Please limit all COVID discussion to this thread)

[FossilFndr]

The metformin recall was for the long acting version from a specific company I believe.

Here are the 4 companies in the Canadian government recall

Certain Metformin diabetes drugs recalled due to the presence or possible presence of NDMA - Recalls and safety alerts

 

[sparkle twin]

I got the Moderna shot.

I had one side effect. I got the chills. It came and went in waves on Sunday but by Monday I was fine. Of course I also had the usual arm soreness, but that's all gone, too.

My parents both got the Pfizer vaccine and neither of them had a single side effect from either one of their shots. They both had covid, too.



I was hoping to get the Pfizer vaccine, but got the Moderna. But, hey, if Dolly Parton helped fund the Moderna vaccine and it's good for her, it's good for me!

 

[Adz]

Didnt Jailbait have COVID? If so then the reaction to the first shot will be stronger

She had multiple tests that all came out negative, but she and Mr. A think she did--her symptoms were textbook, as much as we actually have textbooks on the subject. Mr JB didn't get tested but had the same symptoms. JB Jrs had no symptoms.

 

[czechczech]

and Tennessee just opened vaccinations up to everyone, give it a minute.

Looking at the data, it appears the the number of tests during that same period also declined. Makes some sense, that %positive has simmered for the last 6 weeks around 5-6 without much change. Today %positive is 8.57(according to the state); when I divide new cases into new tests, I get 11.1 . 1 day does not make a trend!

Wear a mask. Get a Vaccine. Be safe!

 

[LCPreds]

Got my first stabbing of Moderna last night. Didn’t even feel the needle. Woke up this morning and felt like my arm had been punched repeatedly. With a hammer. No other side effects at this point though.

Finally starting to loosen up a bit so hopefully back to normal no later than tomorrow.

 

[Adz]

Got my first stabbing of Moderna last night. Didn’t even feel the needle. Woke up this morning and felt like my arm had been punched repeatedly. With a hammer. No other side effects at this point though.

Finally starting to loosen up a bit so hopefully back to normal no later than tomorrow.

Yeah, that's about what my daughter said. She couldn't even pick up her phone...which was, of course, pretty devastating but she survived--with a tripod and voice activation, no doubt...

 

[ILikeItILoveIt]

Everyone’s circumstances and experiences are different. That’s why the health decision of getting vaxed is best left to each individual with no judgement either way.

Trust is a precious commodity and it’s been violated by too many interests. This is tough enough without having to doubt “experts”. CDC revised stance on getting Covid from surfaces. Turns out they were wrong in telling us to wipe down our groceries. I understand learning based on new data but conclusions based on no data, but just to be on the safe side, assumes there no adverse results from telling us to do something or not do something. Not true. Give us what you know and don’t manipulate us for the greater good

My heart hurts for those who have lost loved ones. This virus caused our world to change in ways we don’t even understand yet. If we’ve learned anything, it’s we don’t have all the answers and don’t have the insight to know what’s best for everyone.

Let’s support each new other and respect each other’s decisions on how to live through this. I love my wife and she’s not going to get vaxed. I decided to get vaxed. I support her decision and she supports mine. Nothing about this is a no-brainer.

 

[PredsV82]

At some point you have to acknowledge that there is more on the line than your individual decision. If enough people choose not to vaccinate we may well miss our chance to drive this thing down for good with herd immunity.

Did you even read your second paragraph? Who was harmed by wiping down their groceries? Inconvenienced.... Sure. But harmed? And what a curious phrase "manipulate us for the greater good" is. If people are being reluctant to do the right thing, and their reasoning for not doing the right thing is flawed, them I'm all for "manipulating for the greater good"

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Everyone’s circumstances and experiences are different. That’s why the health decision of getting vaxed is best left to each individual with no judgement either way.

Trust is a precious commodity and it’s been violated by too many interests. This is tough enough without having to doubt “experts”. CDC revised stance on getting Covid from surfaces. Turns out they were wrong in telling us to wipe down our groceries. I understand learning based on new data but conclusions based on no data, but just to be on the safe side, assumes there no adverse results from telling us to do something or not do something. Not true. Give us what you know and don’t manipulate us for the greater good

My heart hurts for those who have lost loved ones. This virus caused our world to change in ways we don’t even understand yet. If we’ve learned anything, it’s we don’t have all the answers and don’t have the insight to know what’s best for everyone.

Let’s support each new other and respect each other’s decisions on how to live through this. I love my wife and she’s not going to get vaxed. I decided to get vaxed. I support her decision and she supports mine. Nothing about this is a no-brainer.

It feels to me a little like this stance is "I know and accept that I am not qualified to make any determination, but nevertheless, I will just go ahead and make a determination anyway despite what anybody more qualified than me thinks." Or worse, I'll just extrapolate that I don't know anything into "NOBODY should assume they know anything, nor listen to anybody else".

That's not how my world works. There are smart people who know more than I do in my industry. I trust them and will follow their expertise. Even if it turns out they need to tweak things when new data becomes available, they are still the very best ones to listen to at any point in the process. There is nothing I can ever say or think that puts a dent in trusting that they know better than I do. What I'm qualified to do is determine WHO I trust in that category. It's not just anybody. But once the appropriate credentials are established, then yes, I will follow. There ARE unquestionably people who know more about everything under the sun than I do.

I don't support anybody who decides not to get vaxxed, therefore. That's just ego and ignorance. It IS a no-brainer.

 

[Armourboy]

This is America, for better or worse each individual has the freedom to do what they feel is in their best interest. Whether you like that fact or agree with that fact is up to you, but that doesn't mean you get to change that fact. What any individual chooses to do with their individual body is not up for discussion, especially when it comes to medicine. Informed or not, correct or not, no one should feel the need to stick something into their body that they are not comfortable with, even if it is for the greater good.

I've had my first shot, 2nd will be in a week, but had I decided not to do that there would have been reasons for it, none of which would be up for debate. Yeah I get it that there are some people that believe some seriously messed up stuff when it comes to these vaccines, but that doesn't change the fact that it isn't up to me to determine what someone else sticks in their body. Legally this has already been fleshed out due to some parents refusing to vaccinate their kids. You may not like, you may not agree with it, but there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.

If I were 22 and not 44 I probably would have made a different decision on taking it or not, especially considering just how low the risk has been to those in that category. Whether we like it or not almost 2800 people have died after having the vaccine. Now the CDC says that those deaths didn't have anything to do with the vaccine itself, but whether you trust that or not is going to come down to whether you trust them or not, and there are lots of people that don't trust much of anything that comes out of anyone involved in government right now. Some of that is due to individual nut cases, some of that is due to some of the mess surrounding this pandemic from government officials.

 

[PredsV82]

Dont be silly Armor. That "my body my choice" argument is bullshit. As a society we have fully accepted that there are things society can tell you that you must do to your body, beginning with childhood vaccinations, which are required pretty much everywhere, with varying mechanisms to avoid them, most of which involve the parents lying about religious beliefs.

As of now, nobody is legally mandating COVID vaccinations, so you are right it is a persons choice. But a healthy person with no medical contraindication to taking the vaccine who still chooses not to do so is either ignorant(which can sometimes be fixed, I have explained to several patients that bullshit they heard or read about the vaccine is wrong and gave them the facts and they then agreed to get the shot). But if you have been made aware of the facts and still choose not to take the shot then it is absolutely fair to say you are being selfish.

Of course you occasionally run into a paeron like one I had who said that the vaccine was the mark of the beast and Joe Biden was the antichrist. I didnt bother trying to educate him....

 

[NoNecksCurse]

Dont be silly Armor. That "my body my choice" argument is bullshit. As a society we have fully accepted that there are things society can tell you that you must do to your body, beginning with childhood vaccinations, which are required pretty much everywhere, with varying mechanisms to avoid them, most of which involve the parents lying about religious beliefs.

As of now, nobody is legally mandating COVID vaccinations, so you are right it is a persons choice. But a healthy person with no medical contraindication to taking the vaccine who still chooses not to do so is either ignorant(which can sometimes be fixed, I have explained to several patients that bullshit they heard or read about the vaccine is wrong and gave them the facts and they then agreed to get the shot). But if you have been made aware of the facts and still choose not to take the shot then it is absolutely fair to say you are being selfish.

Of course you occasionally run into a paeron like one I had who said that the vaccine was the mark of the beast and Joe Biden was the antichrist. I didnt bother trying to educate him....

Occasionally? Seems much more frequent to me.

 

[FossilFndr]

This is America, for better or worse each individual has the freedom to do what they feel is in their best interest.

In all due respect, and I do respect your posts far more than others, this type of statement ignores the US has the highest number of people in prison per capita than any other country in the world, all of whom one would think were doing 'what they feel was in their best interest'. And that's just prisons, not city jails, not fines for civil offenses ..... If we were free to do what we feel is in our best interest none of those things would be true. There would be no need for law schools or the judicial system because everyone was free to do what they decided was in their best interest. There would not be a House of Representatives or Senate whose significant rasion d'etre is to pass laws limiting 'freedoms'. And that's on the federal level alone. There are now laws in Georgia that took away the 'freedom' to give someone a bottle of water in certain circumstances for G*d's sake. Obviously there are limits to this 'freedom' so many posit to justify their choices. There are even forums online where the users don't have the 'freedom' to question the action of moderators, name applications that make the use of that forum more pleasurable.

The concept of American 'freedom' is just rhetoric and has been a pet peeve of mine for years. Frankly I'm very glad that freedom is not absolute.

 

[Armourboy]

All of this is moot anyways, there is already a bill working its way through the Tennessee legislature that would bar anyone from being forced to take it and separate one that would make vaccine passports illegal.

Whether you like it or not you can not force people to take the vaccine.

 

[LCPreds]

All of this is moot anyways, there is already a bill working its way through the Tennessee legislature that would bar anyone from being forced to take it and separate one that would make vaccine passports illegal.

Whether you like it or not you can not force people to take the vaccine.

It wouldn't shock me at all that TN would be one of the states that does something like this. But all that does is potentially protect one from having to deal with vaccine passports in TN. Doesn't protect you from anything in any other state, much less the international destinations that will likely also require something.

 

[Armourboy]

It wouldn't shock me at all that TN would be one of the states that does something like this. But all that does is potentially protect one from having to deal with vaccine passports in TN. Doesn't protect you from anything in any other state, much less the international destinations that will likely also require something.

What it does is set up a Constitutional battle if the Feds try to do it nationally, Tennessee is not the only state working on it.

The problem for the Feds on that one is that there is nothing in the Constitution that gives it the power to do that, which means it goes to the States. It would also cause them to need to rewrite the Disabilities Act because it would break the heck out of it too.

As far as other States I could honestly care less, I just wouldn't go there. I've never left the country so that's definitely never going to be an issue.

 

[LCPreds]

What it does is set up a Constitutional battle if the Feds try to do it nationally, Tennessee is not the only state working on it.

The problem for the Feds on that one is that there is nothing in the Constitution that gives it the power to do that, which means it goes to the States. It would also cause them to need to rewrite the Disabilities Act because it would break the heck out of it too.

I wonder if they do this could we then say any form of ID requirement is unconstitutional. What's the difference between a Covid-19 vaccine card and a driver's license? Or a hunting license?

 

[Armourboy]

I wonder if they do this could we then say any form of ID requirement is unconstitutional. What's the difference between a Covid-19 vaccine card and a driver's license? Or a hunting license?

One is asking you for your medical history essentially the others aren't. That's where it would get sticky with the Disabilities Act, that law made that illegal to ask about in regards to most things in the US.

 

[LCPreds]

One is asking you for your medical history essentially the others aren't. That's where it would get sticky with the Disabilities Act, that law made that illegal to ask about in regards to most things in the US.

It's been a long time since I was in school but I'm pretty sure I had to show proof of immunization to get admitted into college. I don't have kids but also thought parents had to show proof of immunization for kids to be allowed to go to public schools. Is this somehow different or would it also potentially be impacted by this legislation?

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

I don't really mind too much if people decide to plant their feet and choose to die on the cross of an ignorant anti-vaxx stance. BUT: there need to be consequences to making that choice. You should for all intents and purposes live on an "unvaccinated peoples'" reservation if that's your choice. No travel, separate schools and sports teams, no mixing with the regular population.

And if you're willing to go through all that just to avoid being vaccinated, then ok. Enjoy your "freedom".

The vaccines aren't 100% effective, aren't forever, and we don't need millions more unvaccinated hosts incubating new strains. Covid is a less-dangerous dry-run for us, but the next one could be far deadlier. We should be smart enough to learn from this experience and not just give in to the political expediency of allowing ignorance and selfishness to dictate our response. At the very least this should be a sign that there needs to be a more proactive approach to teaching the science and dealing with the anti-vaxx misinformation that's out there. So that at least we might hope to evolve our society towards being more ready next time. Instead, it seems like we're content to just keep wallowing in that ignorance perpetually, possibly even letting it grow. This short-sightedness is hitting us on many fronts, of course, not just the vaccine one. I would vote for somebody who came in and put their foot down HARD on this nonsense. There's another kind of virus out there that needs to be stamped out too.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

It's been a long time since I was in school but I'm pretty sure I had to show proof of immunization to get admitted into college. I don't have kids but also thought parents had to show proof of immunization for kids to be allowed to go to public schools. Is this somehow different or would it also potentially be impacted by this legislation?

I mean, there have always been the hard-core kooks who would cite fake religious beliefs or whatever to dodge vaccinations. Or maybe it's not even really "fake", in the sense that being a hard-core anti-vaxxer used to be basically akin to being in a religious cult. My parents wanted to do that. If I recall, I think they tried to get designated as "Christian Scientists" (what an oxymoron) at one point or something to try to avoid vaccines, though fortunately they eventually abandoned that and we got vaccinated ok, to their everlasting regret.

But stuff like that still goes on as a way of dodging any requirements. Just it really seemed to be on the fringes and involved a fairly extreme minority of people? Whereas in the Covid world, it sure seems to me anyway like it's no longer just a fringe thing, it's a much more sizeable percentage of the population considering embracing this kind of nonsense.

 

[PredsV82]

All of this is moot anyways, there is already a bill working its way through the Tennessee legislature that would bar anyone from being forced to take it and separate one that would make vaccine passports illegal.

Whether you like it or not you can not force people to take the vaccine.

You're right, red states will do stupid shit, and I live in one of the reddest(Kentucky).

But it wont change the fact that if you are a healthy person with no contraindication who is aware of both the proven efficacy and safety of the vaccine, as well as the consequences to society if we fail to reach the herd immunity threshold, and you still choose not to be vaccinated, you are a selfish, egotistical jerk who doesnt give a shit about anyone but yourself.

 

[PredsV82]

One is asking you for your medical history essentially the others aren't. That's where it would get sticky with the Disabilities Act, that law made that illegal to ask about in regards to most things in the US.

You're confusing the ADA with HIPPA. But neither is a legal framework that would prevent the federal government from requiring proof of vaccination. Neither the ADA nor HIPPA are constitutional amendments. Congress has the power to write a new law that would contravene part of a previous law.

 

[bdub24]

It's been a long time since I was in school but I'm pretty sure I had to show proof of immunization to get admitted into college. I don't have kids but also thought parents had to show proof of immunization for kids to be allowed to go to public schools. Is this somehow different or would it also potentially be impacted by this legislation?

This! Exactly this! Somehow people are being permitted to push the vaccine passport as something new. It is such an insult to literally anyone who went to school. Ridiculous.

 

[triggrman]

You're right, red states will do stupid shit, and I live in one of the reddest(Kentucky).

But it wont change the fact that if you are a healthy person with no contraindication who is aware of both the proven efficacy and safety of the vaccine, as well as the consequences to society if we fail to reach the herd immunity threshold, and you still choose not to be vaccinated, you are a selfish, egotistical jerk who doesnt give a shit about anyone but yourself.

Blue states do stupid shit too. I hate you guys blame everything on one party or the other...