OT: COVID-19 Megathread III (Please limit all COVID discussion to this thread)

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PredsV82

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I've seen this tuberculosis talking point before and I don't get it. We only have 10,000 cases and 542 deaths per year from tuberculosis in the US each year. We've cleared those numbers from Covid basically every day since March in the US. It shouldn't be particularly surprising that we don't pay as much attention to a disease that isn't a threat to us. It's also not easily communicable like Covid so you're far less likely to catch it from some random person.

Anyone still saying "we overreacted to COVID" at this point is just an ignoramus. Sorry if I offend anyone but there is just no other suitable word. Literally "one who is ignorant of facts/reality"
 

Byrddog

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Nov 23, 2007
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Anyone still saying "we overreacted to COVID" at this point is just an ignoramus. Sorry if I offend anyone but there is just no other suitable word. Literally "one who is ignorant of facts/reality"
I suppose i fit those remarks but can you explain why other viruses have not drawn the same reaction? I pointed out TB, we have pneumonia both bacterial and viral and the flu. Which according to the NIH has caused more human deaths thru history than any other malady, accidents and even war. Yes COVID has become a pandemic and reaction was needed. We do not have a clear number of deaths with COVID as a direct cause, sure contributing yes but underlying morbidity of other disease or conditions are not considered just stamp it COVID seems to be the directive. I had a HS friend that was hospitalized for pneumonia negative for COVID, while in the hospital she contracted COVID tested positive 5 days before death. Now what killed her the pneumonia or COVID? Or how about HIV CDC reports that the leading cause of death for HIV patients 47% in 2000 was TB. There was a TB epidemic in 2018 that raised the death number to just over 2 million and it has been averaging 1.2 to 1.4 mil since the 1950's yet no shutting down of the world. Until 1947 the three leading causes of death worldwide was TB, Pneumonia and flu.

I was questioned about 1 billion people that have died from TB in the last 200 years. That was a quote I posted from NIH. I dug a little deeper in the early 1800's world wide 4 in 10 deaths was due to the disease in Northern Europe during a pandemic in the same period 7 in 10 people died from TB. In 2019 there were 1.4 million deaths after the epidemic which worked out to be 2.2% of those infected died. So over time yes 1 billion have died just as the article stated.

I get it COVID is new but why has there been no reaction to TB that is killing a comparable number of people. What has been the real effect of social distancing and mask usage? We really do not know yet, to say we do is just a hypothesis. Then consider the effectivness of the vaccines, last week in the UK it was reported that the AstraZeneca vaccine was 64% effective. But they are walking that back now yesterday a article was published indicating it was 74.6 to 84% effective.
AstraZeneca vaccine 'effective against Kent Covid variant', Oxford researchers say - LBC

The press in Europe is a little better than what we have here but its not a spitball to think that Moderna and Pfizer effectiveness should be questioned. For me I trust Oxford much more than the people reporting here in the states.

Now the question of the publics willingness to take the Vaccine.
Many front-line workers refuse Covid vaccines as distribution rollout struggles (nbcnews.com)
Now this was from December and the numbers have changed a little but still over half the population do not trust the vaccine. And to add fuel to the fire many of the healthcare workers across the country continue to refuse to take it. So this brings up another point.
What do we do about COVID vaccine refusal? (theweek.com)
Why some refuse COVID-19 vaccine: 'I just don't want it' (wrtv.com)(Superbowl related)
Covid vaccine: Can you be fired if you refuse to take it? (cnbc.com)
There are many other articles covering this and there is legislation introduced in congress that would withhold stimulus money from those who refuse to take the vaccine.

Now to the vaccine distribution one of two thing are happening more people are refusing the vaccine or somehow in two weeks the manufacturing and distribution has outpaced usage. Walgreens, Kroger and Minute Clinic are going to have vaccine next week? Some point out it is just expansion to get to more people while others indicate the refusal of many have made the vaccine more available. I bet this is one we never get an answer for.
58.3 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines distributed, 36.8 million administered: U.S. CDC | Reuters
According to this article 22 million doses are sitting on someone shelf or have been disposed of.
Thousands of Covid-19 vaccines wind up in the garbage because of fed, state guidelines (nbcnews.com)

Now your point of us not over reacting is taken but out here in the real world it sure looks like it if one reads and uses a little critical thinking. I doubt you will read any of the articles your mind is made up. And I acknowledge that there is misinformation out there on both sides. But it easy for people to be skeptical. heck they should be. I received a experimental vaccine in 1990 and had horrid side effects that alone gives me pause.
 

Byrddog

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Nov 23, 2007
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Byrd, your statement that other countries have "let it run and are pretty much on the other side" is just inaccurate. Sweden is the closest to having just let it ride and they are still not anywhere close to herd immunity.

The US numbers are starting to turn. The vaccines work, if people are smart enough to take them.

Sweden: WHO Coronavirus Disease (COVID-19) Dashboard | WHO Coronavirus Disease (COVID-19) Dashboard
Denmark: WHO Coronavirus Disease (COVID-19) Dashboard | WHO Coronavirus Disease (COVID-19) Dashboard
Norway Coronavirus: 64,585 Cases and 582 Deaths - Worldometer (worldometers.info)

23 die in Norway after receiving Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine (nypost.com)

I would point out that Norway has had 582 deaths from COVID 23 of them related to vaccine. Now the numbers are small but still seem significant. Especially when considering the 582 deaths represent less than 1% of the total cases. the 23 deaths represent almost 4% of the deaths. That would be a couple standard deviations from the mean.

And yes Sweden has had a spike in the colder months but was that not expected?
 

hockey diva

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The one issue not addressed in your posts Byrd, is the strain on hospitals. With Covid patients overwhelming hospitals, staff and supplies have been stretched and are breaking down. Additionally, people having other medical emergencies like strokes, heart attacks, regular community acquired pneumonia aren’t going and are dying at home. Or going much later in their illness with bigger consequences. My inpatient nurse colleagues are mentally suffering and will be traumatized from this. Delays in screenings and child vaccinations will be another consequence of this pandemic.

Also, TB is treatable with drugs on an outpatient basis. Not so much with Covid pneumonia, which is what is killing a lot of patients.

The pandemic has been mishandled by our Federal and state officials. But, we haven’t seen a true pandemic in over 100 years. I am not surprised at the poor response.
 

Byrddog

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Nov 23, 2007
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The one issue not addressed in your posts Byrd, is the strain on hospitals. With Covid patients overwhelming hospitals, staff and supplies have been stretched and are breaking down. Additionally, people having other medical emergencies like strokes, heart attacks, regular community acquired pneumonia aren’t going and are dying at home. Or going much later in their illness with bigger consequences. My inpatient nurse colleagues are mentally suffering and will be traumatized from this. Delays in screenings and child vaccinations will be another consequence of this pandemic.

Also, TB is treatable with drugs on an outpatient basis. Not so much with Covid pneumonia, which is what is killing a lot of patients.

The pandemic has been mishandled by our Federal and state officials. But, we haven’t seen a true pandemic in over 100 years. I am not surprised at the poor response.
Good point and I am not surprised either really but the capacity issue was not really a issue absent some screaming politicians. The real issue was healthcare providers to take care of sick people. I will give you a local example. There is a VA hospital in Nashville and one in Murfreesboro both emptied there beds back in April to support the local communities thats 700 beds there they took no one from the outside in and only had a handful of COVID patients that were veterans. They canceled all non emergency surgeries as well, I was scheduled for surgery in March I think it was after a diagnosis the prior September. I fianlly got the surgery at VA on Oct 18th 2020 after what 14 months..... The VA is still running at a bare minimum on there beds as well. I know this because 4 weeks ago I was sent to the ER here in Cookeville and hospitalized for a bowel blockage and sepsis. When I was stabalized the Cookeville hospital called the VA told them I needed to be admitted and was told they(VA) had no bed for me and I was to be admitted in Cookeville which saved my life yet again. I have ill feelings about not seen at the VA because of COVID which might have kept me from this hospitalization. The best numbers i can find is a 20 to 40% chance of dying from sepsis and the COVID mortality is still at 2%. SO the question remains how many other people have died from lack of care?

I agree TB is treatable yet I refer again to the CDC numbers on average years 1.2 to 1.4 million people worldwide die from TB and there is no dramatic response even when there was a epidemic in 2018 when over 2 million died all from a treatable disease. In India has been common for people to wear masks due to the Swine flu running uncontrolled. Yes there medical system is far inferior to ours, which I find odd since a good portion of the physicians in this country are from India.

I had really great care outside the VA thru this last illness and my Nurses were top knotch but it appears there are not enough of you guys. The thing is why do others have to be in jeopardy even thru a pandemic? I can understand the frustration of the caregivers and that is the reason I never pursued getting licensed as a Psychologist or moving on to medical school to become a psychiatrist in grad school I saw the failure rate of therapy and changed course. It is difficult in your position and some day we are going to get the full impact and it is not going to be pretty.
 

PredsV82

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Byrd, your continued attpemts to use TB as a comparison to COVID just strains all credibility. TB hasnt killed large numbers of people in the developed world in decades. And unless you are immunocompromised, TB is treatable. So there is really no correlation to COVID.

Sweden tried herd immunity, failed miserably and had to institute lockdowns like everyone else.

And as diva mentioned, even without dying, COVID patients are causing hospitals to have to stop doing things like elective surgery because there are no beds to put post op patients in. That's never happened with any other infectious disease.

The good news is, its finally starting to turn around, and the vaccine is going to keep it going down

The pandemic is getting better all across the U.S.
 

adsfan

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Byrd, your continued attpemts to use TB as a comparison to COVID just strains all credibility. TB hasnt killed large numbers of people in the developed world in decades. And unless you are immunocompromised, TB is treatable. So there is really no correlation to COVID.

Sweden tried herd immunity, failed miserably and had to institute lockdowns like everyone else.

And as diva mentioned, even without dying, COVID patients are causing hospitals to have to stop doing things like elective surgery because there are no beds to put post op patients in. That's never happened with any other infectious disease.

The good news is, its finally starting to turn around, and the vaccine is going to keep it going down

The pandemic is getting better all across the U.S.

The pandemic is definitely getting better in Wisconsin. Hospitalized cases are 594, versus being over 700 a few weeks ago and 2274 on November 16th.

Track COVID-19 and the vaccine in Wisconsin

I have never known anyone personally who died of TB. When I was about 30, there was a college student who got TB and a few people in close contact had to be treated. I was taking a night school course and a building that I wanted to go in was closed down, thank goodness.

I have personally known three people who have died of COVID-19 so far.

That compares 60 years to 1 year.

While anecdotal evidence is always suspect, the difference in deaths and years is going to be very hard to explain away by anybody.

BTW: I know and have known a lot of people between being a student in public schools, a college TA, working for medium to large sized companies and playing team sports like baseball, softball, basketball and soccer. You have a lot of teammates and opponents with team sports played over a number of years. Soccer was ages 12 to 55, omitting about 6 years during college.
 

hockey diva

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The lack of nursing staff is partly on the admins of hospitals and hospital systems who view qualified nursing staff as a labor cost on their bottom line. Granted inpatient nursing is hard, lots of nurses leave the bed side because it is just so physically and mentally taxing. It would be less so if they were adequately supported and staffed.
 

FossilFndr

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Jan 18, 2014
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Did some research about KN95 masks and ended up buying a test pack of 10. These have 5 layers and according to CDC info

upload_2021-2-8_13-32-9.png
 
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Armourboy

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Bedford County has even started accepting those from other counties. I have my second Moderna shot in a couple of weeks.

That said the only reason I am getting it is my wife who has a genetic blood clotting disorder and it's just not worth the risk to her.
 
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Adz

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My first appointment is the 10th, second on May 1. Mr. Adz, my son, daughter and their respective others are all scheduled for the same day, though not all at the same time. So that's age 28 to 63 in Davidson Co.
 
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adsfan

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Wisconsin has a 98% usage rate for vaccines. I believe that is the highest in the nation.

In Milwaukee County, 75% of people over 65 have been vaccinated. State wide the total vaccination percentage is over 20%, with more than 1 million people vaccinated and 32% have received at least one dose out of 5.8 million residents.

Personally, I received a J&J vaccine 2 weeks ago, so I am one of the 20% who is fully vaccinated.
 

NoNecksCurse

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it’s too bad J&J had 15 million doses ruined by an ingredient mix up at a manufacturing plant. that’s not good for the public perception of vaccines.
 

bdub24

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Currently in an observation area for 30min after my first Pfizer shot! 2nd one on the 24th. Had a reaction to penicillin when I was little, so they have me in extended observation time

they are advising to move and stretch your arm where you got the shot to help reduce swelling or something
 

Bringer of Jollity

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Currently in an observation area for 30min after my first Pfizer shot! 2nd one on the 24th. Had a reaction to penicillin when I was little, so they have me in extended observation time

they are advising to move and stretch your arm where you got the shot to help reduce swelling or something
I was a bit tired for a few days after mine and bad arm soreness starting day 2. I just got #2 (Pfizer) yesterday and having quite a bit more fatigue/chills/aches, but not as bad as if I had the flu or anything. I did work my arm out more yesterday so arm soreness not nearly as bad this time. Hope you (and sparkle as I see her post as well) go through with no issues.
 

hido

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I’m actually getting my THIRD Pfizer shot Tuesday. I participated in the Phase 3 trial in September and October and found out I was vaxxed in January when they unblinded the study. I think this third shot is a booster. And, no, I don’t mind being a guinea pig. Shoot me up.
 

ILikeItILoveIt

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I’m in between Pfizer shots. Gotta be honest, I’m 62 and treated for high BP. Otherwise very healthy. If not for the BP risk, probably would have passed on the vax. Been illness free since this all started. If I got Covid, I like my 99.+ % chance of beating it and would prefer the natural immunity versus the vax immunity.

As they state when they jab you, these vaxes are approved for experimental use. They are not approved vaxes like others we take. They did an awesome job developing them so fast, but we’re flying blind on long term effects cuz we couldn’t wait for longer term trial results. It’s a good bet we’ll all be fine, but we don’t know, or they would not be experimental.

It really is fascinating that nearly the entire population will be effectively in a long term trial of a vax. Shows you the power of authority. Hope we’re all doing the right thing.
 
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