OT: COVID-19 Megathread III (Please limit all COVID discussion to this thread)

[FossilFndr]

I recently heard an analogy to the effect

If you've seen 1000, 10,000, 100,000, 1,000,000 people cross a bridge why do you think that it will collapse when you cross it?

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

I see it larger than that. When every nation in the world is fighting this virus, locking down cities, mandating mask wearing, pushing vaccines, etc. Nations that have never gotten along or worked together, but now all have a common goal, that's not just some liberal US agenda, it's a serious pandemic.

Liberal US agenda (or Illuminati/Bill Gates/whoever/same thing)... unleashes the serious pandemic in order to gain control of all nations and people, together, at once. A plan fiendishly clever in its intricacies...

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

This conspiracy is so deep it goes all the way through the center of the earth and comes out the other side.

... you mean IN CHINA!??!! I knew it!

 

[Adz]

... you mean IN CHINA!??!! I knew it!

Shhhh, actually the "other side" from the US is in the Indian Ocean between Australia and Africa, but close enough for conspiracy theories I guess.

 

[triggrman]

I mean if the conspiracy is this was all started by China, I'd say a warning sign to most of us is, Asians are the most vaccinated demographic in the world.

 

[Gh24]

Sure

Make sure you are questioning all the other governments, and their public health experts, who have also determined that these vaccines benefits outweigh their risks. Make sure you you question the consensus of related experts that are not government employees who have come to the same conclusion. Make sure you pour over the data which include the vaccine trails, the ongoing studies throughout the world (but especially in the UK, Israel, U.S. since they were among the first to vaccinate a large % of their population). Make sure you consider the implications that all these governments, their experts, private experts in related fields, all the media you dislike, all the doctors and nurses working with actual COVID patients, all the data that has been collected, and the subsequent evidence derived from it....consider that all of that has been faked, exaggerated, manipulated to control you, and expose you to a harmful medication (vaccine).

I would love to see a rational justification for that. I don't see how it can be done without diving deep into the paranoid delusional conspiracy theory rabbit hole. The thing is the totality of government, government health officials, related private experts aren't asking you to have FAITH in what they say. They ,companies, government agencies, researchers (government and private), have been releasing the evidence and their assessment of that evidence the whole way along. Every day it seems more studies come out about vaccine effectiveness. I would personally assert that even if they didn't publicly provide the evidence (though obviously they should for transparency) I would still trust their advice because not believing in the consensus of experts would be foolish. I could take my broken car to 10 different mechanics. 9 of the 10 say the problem is the transmission, but one says the problem is a belt. I go home and find a post on Facebook about broken belts. I watch a 10 minute video of a guy on Youtube telling me that the evil "they" are going to try to convince you that the problem is your transmission when really it is the belt. Let's go one step further. 9 of the 10 mechanics who say the problem is the transmission take me under the hood of the car and show me the evidence for why it is the transmission.

But you know what? The one mechanic was really charismatic, and I liked the contrarian attitude of the FB post and the Youtube video. So I'm going with that. That is what is happening right now.

Great, great post, but I'd like to add something.

If this one mechanic has a well thought and presented argument he shouldn't be ignored. A single study can raise eyebrows and warrant further research, but as long as the results aren't reliably reproducible you can wipe your ass with them.

I repeat what I posted in a form of a pic earlier;
Skepticism is healthy doubt when faced with lack of credible evidence,
Denial is willful doubt in the face of overwhelming credible evidence.

 

[Adz]

Good news re QM:


HE’S OFF THE VENT!!!
They have him on the bi-pap again, but we are working towards getting him back on the high-flow cannula. He is smiling, joking through sign language and answering questions with a smirk, and winking at me frequently. His saturation is good and BP and heart rate have been great. He was so agitated having that vent on, that he has settled really well since then…he is sleeping without sedation and generally comfortable.

 

[PredsV82]

Gonna leave this here without comment

 

[predfan98]

LOL. A doctor is using an NBC POLL to make a prejudiced swipe at a specific subset..

Let’s look at CDC data... don’t think they asked me my race or political party when I got the vaccine.

a Poll...... how scientific.

And you wonder why people don’t trust medical advice.

 

[PredsV82]

LOL. A doctor is using an NBC POLL to make a prejudiced swipe at a specific subset..

Let’s look at CDC data The CDC reports demographic characteristics, including race/ethnicity, of people receiving COVID-19 vaccinations at the national level. As of August 16, 2021, CDC reported that race/ethnicity was known for 58% of people who had received at least one dose of the vaccine. Among this group, nearly two thirds were White (58%), 10% were Black, 17% were Hispanic, 6% were Asian, 1% were American Indian or Alaska Native,

in Nashville, as well as other cities, black vaccinations are lagging for various reasons. Just google ..

It’s easy to find that data. It doesn’t make me want to “leave someth8ng here without comment” to indicate something snarky.

and masking isn’t universal. Europe does not mask kids in schools.

Wow. Take a poll that has as it's only significant finding the dramatic disparity between Trump voters and Biden voters and you come flying in with something about race. I'm thinking that's says more about you than me....

 

[predfan98]

Wow. Take a poll that has as it's only significant finding the dramatic disparity between Trump voters and Biden voters and you come flying in with something about race. I'm thinking that's says more about you than me....

data is data , bud. It’s a fact that the black and minority community hasn’t Been vaccinated in the same rates in cities as whites. Facts don’t make that distinction. I guess you’re not worried that minorities are underserved, some people are. So guess for you it’s good to just ignore that FACT and let all the underserved (guess we shouldn’t call them blacks or minorities according to you)take the hit. Let’s just guess. Perhaps we should take outreach from those areas, it’d be..........

 

[Legionnaire11]

LOL. A doctor is using an NBC POLL to make a prejudiced swipe at a specific subset..

Let’s look at CDC data... don’t think they asked me my race or political party when I got the vaccine.

a Poll...... how scientific.

And you wonder why people don’t trust medical advice.

I do most of my work in polling these days, I bet you can't tell me any reason that polls are no good other than the false idea that the polls were wrong in 2016 (they weren't). Your evidence is "They didn't ask me..." which is no evidence at all. I guarantee you that polling is legit and highly accurate, there is a lot more that goes into it other than calling a couple of old folks (the landline excuse) and asking them a few questions on the phone.

No, the attack on polling is just more political BS in line with attacks on education, science and medicine. It doesn't belong in a modern world.

 

[LCPreds]

There is nothing about the party demographics that surprise me so I'm not sure why you're reacting the way you are. If someone had asked me % of Dems vs. % of Reps who had been vaxxed I probably would have said somewhere around 80% and 50% without having to ask a bunch of people. One thing that does surprise me is the higher than I expected vaxx rate of blacks. I thought I had read there was skepticism there and glad to see that, at least based on this poll, that what I thought I knew is incorrect.

The pollster did miss an opportunity of adding a single category:
People named President Donald J. Trump - 100%

 

[predfan98]

An attack on polling doesn’t belong in the modern world. HAHAHA.
Yes let’s all bow down to the poll... give me break.
An nbc poll.... yes, nbc is always right. As is cnn.

 

[Legionnaire11]

An attack on polling doesn’t belong in the modern world. HAHAHA.
Yes let’s all bow down to the poll... give me break.
An nbc poll.... yes, nbc is always right. As is cnn.

So you still have no evidence other than once again repeating that they're wrong, and singling out the "Liberal" channels, expected.

 

[predfan98]

Well, you really can’t base your “feelings” about who is getting vaxxed, can you? It’s based on your politics it sounds like, to me.

I don’t ask people whether they’ve been vaxxed or who they voted for?

oh, yea, Senile demented man living in the basement, that’s what you voted for. Who is pulling the strings, do you think

 

[predfan98]

So you still have no evidence other than once again repeating that they're wrong, and singling out the "Liberal" channels, expected.

So you believe in Fox News polls, right! If you can’t PROVE they’re wrong, you have to accept it... that’s your argument.
Look everyone likes to beat the drum.........”white trump rural voter isn’t vaccinated”. The proof isn’t there. A poll isn’t data.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

An attack on polling doesn’t belong in the modern world. HAHAHA.
Yes let’s all bow down to the poll... give me break.
An nbc poll.... yes, nbc is always right. As is cnn.

This just gets filed under the same overall category as most of the rest of what has ailed us in the Covid response and other modern societal issues... people don't understand science/math/statistics... and rather than admit they don't understand it, these days they feel comfortable just trying to belittle, demean, or ignore it. It ultimately comes down once again to a massive failure of our education system, really.

And I don't see anything out there from any party which says we're doing anything in response to this realization that's going to address the problem.

 

[PredsV82]

data is data , bud. It’s a fact that the black and minority community hasn’t Been vaccinated in the same rates in cities as whites. Facts don’t make that distinction. I guess you’re not worried that minorities are underserved, some people are. So guess for you it’s good to just ignore that FACT and let all the underserved (guess we shouldn’t call them blacks or minorities according to you)take the hit. Let’s just guess. Perhaps we should take outreach from those areas, it’d be..........

Where did you get the idea that I'm not worried about.... anybody? I have been preaching vaccination, for EVERYBODY, in my practice (and on here) since the vaccine has been available.
To suggest otherwise is simply slander, nothing more.

I posted the poll because of the numbers related to who they voted for for President, and the subset of those who "support Trump above party "

I found those numbers interesting because even Trump now openly advocates vaccination..... and he got booed for it....

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

This just gets filed under the same overall category as most of the rest of what has ailed us in the Covid response and other modern societal issues... people don't understand science/math/statistics... and rather than admit they don't understand it, these days they feel comfortable just trying to belittle, demean, or ignore it. It ultimately comes down once again to a massive failure of our education system, really.

And I don't see anything out there from any party which says we're doing anything in response to this realization that's going to address the problem.

It's more than that. There's also not usually any effort to understanding nuance or context when it comes to these things. Polling is useful but needs to be understood within the context of the poll and what the poll is trying to measure. It's like the arguing by hockey fans over the use of the +/- statistic--some find it to be an absolutely useless measure, while others think it can be a useful statistic when considered in the proper context. All most people seem to be looking for nowadays is isolating the most effective talking points or quotes, to hell with the actual meaning or purpose. I feel like it's connected to something I bemoan a lot which is that people don't care about discussing (or figuring out) the best ideas, they just want to win/get one over on the other side.

 

[PredsV82]

oh, yea, Senile demented man living in the basement, that’s what you voted for. Who is pulling the strings, do you think

Oh, sorry... didnt realize you were one of those....

*steps slowly away trying not to make any sudden moves*

 

[Legionnaire11]

It's more than that. There's also not usually any effort to understanding nuance or context when it comes to these things. Polling is useful but needs to be understood within the context of the poll and what the poll is trying to measure. It's like the arguing by hockey fans over the use of the +/- statistic--some find it to be an absolutely useless measure, while others think it can be a useful statistic when considered in the proper context. All most people seem to be looking for nowadays is isolating the most effective talking points or quotes, to hell with the actual meaning or purpose. I feel like it's connected to something I bemoan a lot which is that people don't care about discussing (or figuring out) the best ideas, they just want to win/get one over on the other side.

Exactly this. On the polling thing, it goes back to 2016 and people on both sides misunderstanding, the common misconception is that the polls had Hillary with a comfortable lead and then Trump won on election day... except the comfortable lead for Hillary was after the primaries. But the polling doesn't stop there, and the polls tightened all summer and by election day were almost neck and neck, still with Hillary leading just barely within the margin of error. Then what happened? Hillary WON the popular election by that same margin that the polls gave her. The polls were absolutely correct, but they were never displayed as adjusted for the Electoral College. One side used it as proof that the polls were rigged against their candidate (by the lying liberal media...) and can't be trusted and the other side used it as proof that polling is inaccurate and can't be trusted, but all along the numbers were correct.

As to your other point, yes today everything is distilled down to a couple of talking points or catch phrases. Everything is presented as one extreme or the other without context and that feeds into the tribal mentality. It's the social media age, where you can pick and choose who to associate with and what content you do and do not consume. Where news is little more than headlines and memes to most people in brief flashes through their feeds. Unfortunately, I don't see the light at the end of this tunnel anytime soon, I only hope that there's something that I'm missing.