OT: Coronavirus XXVIII: Vaccinations to Start Soon? Would You Take One By Years End?

[Drivesaitl]

Kettle met pot.

A better reply than I would muster.

 

[Spawn]

Epidemiologist Says Restricting Small Gatherings Isn't Enough To Stop The Surge

For anyone who is curious

 

[Stoneman89]

Looks like somebody completely dissed the lockdown , and the cops had to step in since the bylaw officers backed down. And Doug Ford's response was weak. John Tory looks like he has the balls in the province.
Etobicoke restaurant ordered to close after defying provincial lockdown orders, allowing indoor dining

ttps://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/etobicoke-restaurant-adamson-bbq-1.5814137

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Epidemiologist Says Restricting Small Gatherings Isn't Enough To Stop The Surge

For anyone who is curious

and yet, according to data, "small gatherings" like restaurants make up only 3% of known spread in places like LA

 

[bellagiobob]

Perhaps you can get your 12 year old on here to explain things to some of the adults?

 

[Skar]

This is far different than the price of oil or opiod addictions, or an election campaign. This is a unique, once a century massive world wide issue that begs for cooperation from everyone.

Again, I trust you are smart enough to know the reality of the situation if the positions were switched. If not, something something ocean front property for sale.

 

[ohheyhemsky]

Looks like somebody completely dissed the lockdown , and the cops had to step in since the bylaw officers backed down. And Doug Ford's response was weak. John Tory looks like he has the balls in the province.
Etobicoke restaurant ordered to close after defying provincial lockdown orders, allowing indoor dining

ttps://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/etobicoke-restaurant-adamson-bbq-1.5814137

The owner went onto social media and said he was re-opening despite the forced closure too.

 

[Snipes45]

The owner went onto social media and said he was re-opening despite the forced closure too.

Is this the BBQ joint where all of those neanderthals were gathered together and eating with zero masks?

 

[joestevens29]

The owner went onto social media and said he was re-opening despite the forced closure too.

He should be thrown in jail

 

[bellagiobob]

 

[Yukon Joe]

What about the mental health of our doctors and nurses working on the covid units? You think my husband enjoys calling family members and telling them their loved one died alone. His life has been nothing but covid for the last eight months. No one seems to care about them.

An overwhelmed ICU is why we need to lockdown. We should support businesses. Pay them to stay closed. There's no reason why casinos, restaurants and bars should be open right now.

Thank you for your husband's service during this difficult time.

With respect it is because of our health care workers that the government brought in these restrictions yesterday. People do care about them. But the government's resources are not unlimited and are pretty much tapped out. Our provincial deficit (the amount we spend more than we bring in) is supposed to be $21.3 billion. That is - Alberta's total revenue is projected to be $41.3 billion compared to expenses of $62.7 billion. That means for every dollar the government is spending they're borrowing about one third of that amount.

I don't know if Kenney's plan is the right one. I do in particular wonder about casinos. But I can well understand Kenney's reluctance to do a full lockdown.

 

[AM]

By all means. You're the one who made the brutal attempt at a syllogism.

Not at all. It’s quite straight forward. Lockdowns impact different populations wrt mortality than pandemics. Trade offs on mortality as a public health decision should not be on doctors by their own oath.

 

[Spawn]

and yet, according to data, "small gatherings" like restaurants make up only 3% of known spread in places like LA

Pray tell, what percentage of cases do they actually know the source of?

 

[bellagiobob]

I was sure there was an hour and a half presser yesterday, that explained everything in great detail, and the reasons behind it. But I must be mistaken. Continuing to divide us. Well done.

 

[soothsayer]

Not at all. It’s quite straight forward. Lockdowns impact different populations wrt mortality than pandemics. Trade offs on mortality as a public health decision should not be on doctors by their own oath.

It's straight forward to you because you're making brutal assumptions. Here's what your reasoning looks like.

- Cops take an oath to uphold the peace.
- Shooting people is not peaceful.
- Therefore, cops are never justified in shooting people.

See, it's straight forward.

Never mind that the Hypocratic oath isn't taken literally because it leads to absurd reasoning.

 

[LaGu]

I'm mainly talking about people who want more lockdowns/harsher lockdowns that will knowingly cripple thousands upon thousands of people's livelihoods, because in the end that would mean less people are physically dead. I don't think tens of thousands of people having their quality of life significantly downgraded indefinitely, and in many cases permanently, by financial ruin, lost businesses, etc because it might save a life somewhere along the line is justifiable. There's a cost to lowering the death toll, and some believe it should be paid no matter what.




I'm not sure what you're getting at. You said people will die from restrictions (presumably in a roundabout way) and I pretty much agreed with you. Some people out there are fine with that (or more accurately, just choose to not think about it) because all they care about seeing is a lower Covid death toll on the evening news. Only Covid deaths matter to some people. Not saying that's a prevalent theme in this thread specifically mind you. It seems to be the thought process of a former Alberta premier based on a radio segment I happened to listen to this morning though.

Well again I think you are purposedly misinterpreting their points of view. I know you are saying finincial ruin/lost business, but at the same time you are quoting quality of life. For some that might mean finincial ruin, for others no holidays or steak dinners. Where do you draw the line? Because one quality of life is not like the other.

I mean that is pretty easy to misinterpret right back (especially since I don't think most people talking about harsher restrictions want what you are saying).

Right now we are seeing on here almost as a matter-of-fact that harsh restrictions is worse because of lost business, but that is a point of view. Of course shared by many who know more than we do, but also not shared by many who also know more than we do (and don't wish finincial ruin on other people). Let's not pretend this is a matter of fact issue, because you know very well that it isn't.

 

[nabob]

It's straight forward to you because you're making brutal assumptions. Here's what your reasoning looks like.

- Cops take an oath to uphold the peace.
- Shooting people is not peaceful.
- Therefore, cops are never justified in shooting people.

See, it's straight forward.

Never mind that the Hypocratic oath isn't taken literally because it leads to absurd reasoning.

That’s a terrible comparison

 

[soothsayer]

That’s a terrible comparison

- Doctors say they will do no harm.
- Lockdowns cause harm.
- Therefore, Doctors should not advocate for lockdowns.

Seems pretty analogous to me.

 

[nabob]

I was sure there was an hour and a half presser yesterday, that explained everything in great detail, and the reasons behind it. But I must be mistaken. Continuing to divide us. Well done.

It’s not like there’s a province to run that almost a year into a pandemic that by many accounts is expected to last another year until we’re in the clear.

they both expect special attention for a program that most Canadians have never heard of if I had to bet. What wastes of tax pay money.

 

[TheUltimateOiler]

Well I am getting laid off Friday.
This is fine.

 

[nabob]

- Doctors say they will do no harm.
- Lockdowns cause harm.
- Therefore, Doctors should not advocate for lockdowns.

Seems pretty analogous to me.

I agree doctors shouldn’t be advocating for lockdowns.

 

[Little Fury]

It has been stated by many infectious disease specialists that large indoor gatherings are the main source of spreader events. You don't need to look at data to know this, just listen to the experts.

Also, compared to most businesses that are following protocols with masking and social distancing, you're bound to not see these protocols being followed in private residences where these protocols aren't being enforced especially parties where alcohol is prevalent. Nothing to prove of this of course but it's just common sense.

When the government making decisions to ban private indoor gatherings but allows bars etc to stay open at 100% capacity, then you should hope that they have data to support those decisions. But by their own admission, they don’t, which means they’re just throwing things at the wall hoping they stick.

 

[soothsayer]

I agree doctors shouldn’t be advocating for lockdowns.

Okay, so if you haven't followed the argument between two people, then why interject? I appreciate your random comment, I guess?

 

[nabob]

Well I am getting laid off Friday.
This is fine.

sorry to hear that

 

[nabob]

When the government making decisions to ban private indoor gatherings but allows bars etc to stay open at 100% capacity, then you should hope that they have data to support those decisions. But by their own admission, they don’t, which means they’re just throwing things at the wall hoping they stick.

100% capacity I thought all service industry type businesses were restricted to a certain percentage of capacity?