OT: Coronavirus XXVIII: Vaccinations to Start Soon? Would You Take One By Years End?

[Stoneman89]

I’d prefer if there wasn’t 24/7 campaigning going on, and that parties acknowledged when some good is being done by the other party, and try to work with them for the common good. And this goes for all parties. I know it’s a utopia that will never exist, but it would make for a better province/country, and also wouldn’t have so many of its fellow citizens turning against each other because they are programmed by their leaders to hate everything the opposition says or does.

I believe that happened in one of the southeast asian countries (Taiwan,Singapore, ??), where they stated that one of the biggest reasons for their success, was the coalition joining of the parties to form a unified front regarding fighting the pandemic.

 

[Little Fury]

Casinos, bars and restaurants all have social distancing measures in place and have superior ventilation systems with larger spaces.

You can sit around a table cheek by jowl with 6 other people in any bar restaurant and casino. In that environment, where you're close enough to spit in someone else's beer, social distancing and ventilation isn't going to do much.

The models I was referring to explained this, would you like me to find them for you so you can gain a greater understanding of how the virus spreads in different environments? If they were closed down it wouldn’t bother me much. But a complete lockdown on all businesses like you’re clamoring for doesn’t make sense then does it?

Oh look, something else I never said. Don't you get tired of lying all the time?

 

[nabob]

It will be two weeks tomorrow.

Just over a week lol

 

[bellagiobob]

No thanks. Looks like something @Drivesaitl might like though.

 

[nabob]

No thanks. Looks like something @Drivesaitl might like though.

Really though, who needs this???

 

[Stoneman89]

Alberta is not using the snitch system (which works to punish people). We are loading up on Peace Offers, etc to hand out tickets. These guys are just going to be strolling neighborhoods and guessing that maybe a house has an extra car or two in front of it.

From Alberta.ca

They actually DO have a snitch line, according to this.


Enforcement

If you violate a public health order, you may be subject to a $1,000 fine. Additionally, you can be prosecuted for up to $100,000 for a first offense.
If you are concerned someone is not following public health orders, you can:

• remind them that not following orders is against the law and puts people at risk
• submit a complaint to AHS public health inspectors online or call 1-833-415-9179

Submit a complaint
Complaints that require an immediate response can also be reported to your local police force through their administrative phone line.

 

[nabob]

It’s more than just an argument. It’s an oath by the medical profession. Do no harm. Lock downs harm people that wouldn’t be harmed by the virus. Which begs the question of the rationale of medical experts pushing hard for a lockdown.

I would also have to question why mental health isn’t viewed as being as important as physical health.
If the 90 year old with multiple serious health issues dies and Covid is a factor it’s a tragedy. If a 35 year old with zero physical health issues dies due to mental health issues caused by Covid its “oh he had issues and needed to not be depressed.”

 

[CupofOil]

Again: we have no idea if private indoor gatherings are the main culprit, at least not from a data standpoint.

It has been stated by many infectious disease specialists that large indoor gatherings are the main source of spreader events. You don't need to look at data to know this, just listen to the experts.

Also, compared to most businesses that are following protocols with masking and social distancing, you're bound to not see these protocols being followed in private residences where these protocols aren't being enforced especially parties where alcohol is prevalent. Nothing to prove of this of course but it's just common sense.

 

[soothsayer]

It’s more than just an argument. It’s an oath by the medical profession. Do no harm. Lock downs harm people that wouldn’t be harmed by the virus. Which begs the question of the rationale of medical experts pushing hard for a lockdown.

Lancing boils causes harm. A prostate exam causes harm. Re-breaking a bone causes harm. Etc.

 

[Stoneman89]

This is politics at this point. As others have stated, if Notley was premier right now there is absolutely no way Kenney would sit back and pat her on the back. Regardless if her response was immaculate, or downright catastrophic, there would be no chance that the opposition party wouldn't try to use it for the next election. That was pretty much the UCP's entire campaign philosophy in the previous election. For example, when the price of oil tanked globally, the knives were out. There was no happy, harmonious, work together attitude.

With that being said, I despise Kenney and the UCP, but I think they have done a reasonable job solely with regards to the handling of the pandemic to date. Of course everything can't be perfect and we will hopefully have a clearer picture of how to deal with these types of pandemics for the future.

This is far different than the price of oil or opiod addictions, or an election campaign. This is a unique, once a century massive world wide issue that begs for cooperation from everyone.

 

[Stoneman89]

Hence why the government should support those businesses while they’re shut down. Oh wait I forgot that kind of socialism is only available to O&G companies.

Trudeau has run out of $$$, or he would offered to the provinces already for this 2nd go round. Sorry, the money tree has lost all of it's leaves. Why don't you give him a call and see if he's got some loose coin he can spare for us?

 

[bellagiobob]

 

[Stoneman89]

First of all, the contract tracing right now in Alberta is very poor. A lot of the transmission we aren't even sure where it originated.

I think it's a fair thing to ask ourselves as a society, why are we cool with closing schools but leaving bars, restaurants, and churches open? I have a problem with that. I don't want to see any business close but this is pandemic and certain things need to be done to control the spread

Lastly, reading all these comments, I'm wondering how many of you have a partner working in ICU right now. Well, I do. This pandemic has dominated my husband's life for the last eight months and it's getting worse. What about his mental health ? What about our nurses and other health care workers?

The Kenney govt reacted far too slowly and they deserve criticism.

My wife is a nurse at a hospital and she is in favour of the measures so far.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Okay and I understand it was a monumental day and politics is unavoidable when talking about something like this

but it’s hilarious how you attack her and turn the whole thread into how bad of a person she is. You are the one that drove this thread into a “Kenney Vs Notley” thing which has absolutely nothing to do with the topic. You know it. Don’t be ignorant. You were the first one to bring her up. So what’s your agenda? You wanna talk Covid-19 or you wanna talk politics? I think your intention is pretty clear.

the Hitler post was in rebuttal to an obvious hyperbolic statement that another poster made claiming that she did one of the worst things he has ever seen a public figure do, which is just a laughable opinion on its own.

No, the political opposition did it to themselves yesterday, I'm just reporting the poorly thought out reply, and people are agreeing that during a pandemic its best to work together, and leadership involves doing things, stating things you would not otherwise state. It could even be the standard in which can be better people that we state things we wouldn't typically state, and get out of our own mindset.

Kenney to his credit succeeded in that yesterday and hard not to notice.

Reviewing comments I would say @bone and @Dorian2 were also trying to effect objective clarity in the last couple pages. You did not. Nor did I.

Your intent was to throw water on the thread. Not because you didn't want to go political, you did, and so the high road in your first post in the thread went into the ditch almost immediately. I reported on that as well.

cheers

 

[Gopper]

I would also have to question why mental health isn’t viewed as being as important as physical health.
If the 90 year old with multiple serious health issues dies and Covid is a factor it’s a tragedy. If a 35 year old with zero physical health issues dies due to mental health issues caused by Covid its “oh he had issues and needed to not be depressed.”

What about the mental health of our doctors and nurses working on the covid units? You think my husband enjoys calling family members and telling them their loved one died alone. His life has been nothing but covid for the last eight months. No one seems to care about them.

An overwhelmed ICU is why we need to lockdown. We should support businesses. Pay them to stay closed. There's no reason why casinos, restaurants and bars should be open right now.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Omg I'm dying here

I just love her response and the kind of humor that so typifies Atlantic Canada. Wonderful reaction.

The reaction in some highbrow place would be so different. She made it so that everybody could get a laugh at it.

Well everybody in the world. Only thing better would be to get the pisser out front on stage and raise his arm.

mind you that shore weren't no thunderpiss to me. Gauntlet accepted.

I have a teflon bladder.

 

[AM]

Lancing boils causes harm. A prostate exam causes harm. Re-breaking a bone causes harm. Etc.

Do I really need to detail how your examples are really poor.

 

[Drivesaitl]

No thanks. Looks like something @Drivesaitl might like though.

You know me by now brother. heh, dead elegant. I'd be tempted to bring a sleeping bag into yon tent and at least not have to worry about the bears for once. Albeit probably other things to worry about overnight there..

 

[Stoneman89]

Again: we have no idea if private indoor gatherings are the main culprit, at least not from a data standpoint.

Okay, try to follow along and connect the dots. So much easier to ascertain where contagion comes from in public settings. People come into stores, masked up, social distance, buy goods, go home. Kids go to school, follow protocols, then, leave the school. (what happens after school has been well disected, and kids are going to kids in non school hours regardless of whether they go to school or not). Other businesses, restaurants, etc have strict COVID protocols, as per government regulations. Statistics can track how these places do, and the %'s are small, and they are all doing very well, other than the odd one(which gets warned or shut down). That leaves everything else, which by subtraction, is what we do in private. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to come to this conclusion.

 

[Stoneman89]

It's been just over a week since they locked down so even if there were more social gatherings and thus more spread, it probably wouldn't be turning up in the numbers yet.

It's been almost 2 full weeks, but hey, don't let facts get in the way of your points.

 

[nabob]

From Alberta.ca

They actually DO have a snitch line, according to this.


Enforcement

If you violate a public health order, you may be subject to a $1,000 fine. Additionally, you can be prosecuted for up to $100,000 for a first offense.
If you are concerned someone is not following public health orders, you can:

• remind them that not following orders is against the law and puts people at risk
• submit a complaint to AHS public health inspectors online or call 1-833-415-9179

Submit a complaint
Complaints that require an immediate response can also be reported to your local police force through their administrative phone line.

so we have 310-FIRE for reporting wildfires. Can we have 310-RONA for reporting wild parties??

 

[nabob]

What about the mental health of our doctors and nurses working on the covid units? You think my husband enjoys calling family members and telling them their loved one died alone. His life has been nothing but covid for the last eight months. No one seems to care about them.

An overwhelmed ICU is why we need to lockdown. We should support businesses. Pay them to stay closed. There's no reason why casinos, restaurants and bars should be open right now.

but by the stats ICUs aren’t overwhelmed. I feel for people in your husbands position just like I do surgeons who lose people on operating tables and paramedics who lose people when doing CPR. It takes a great person to sign up for those jobs and deal with the mental health issues that can arise from the stress of those jobs. To say that no one cares about our health care providers right now seems disingenuous. I have never in my lifetime seen public sector workers praised like the praise that healthcare workers have deserved in the last 8 months.

 

[soothsayer]

Do I really need to detail how your examples are really poor.

By all means. You're the one who made the brutal attempt at a syllogism.

 

[bone]

From Alberta.ca

They actually DO have a snitch line, according to this.


Enforcement

If you violate a public health order, you may be subject to a $1,000 fine. Additionally, you can be prosecuted for up to $100,000 for a first offense.
If you are concerned someone is not following public health orders, you can:

• remind them that not following orders is against the law and puts people at risk
• submit a complaint to AHS public health inspectors online or call 1-833-415-9179

Submit a complaint
Complaints that require an immediate response can also be reported to your local police force through their administrative phone line.

Public health inspectors aren't going to go to a house to break up grandpa's visit. The snitch line is more likely aimed at businesses.

 

[Kyle McMahon]

Maybe you are referring to things outside of these threads, but in here I have not seen anything like that.
At least not unless you really try hard to misinterpret context.

Many/most of the people for hard restrictions don't just think it is about avoiding death at all cost. The bottom line is to get to a point where society can open up safely and people can be out and about (and spend...) without worrying about this virus. Another point is to be able to trust that if you get into a car accident you won't need to wait in line for treatment because the health care system is overwhelmed with covid 19 patients.

I am not for sweeping lock-downs by the way, and maybe I am misinterpreting what you are saying here, but I think it is important to understand that from whatever side you are coming from in this discussion we generally want the same thing at the end of the day. The disagreement is on the best and most effective path to get there.

I'm mainly talking about people who want more lockdowns/harsher lockdowns that will knowingly cripple thousands upon thousands of people's livelihoods, because in the end that would mean less people are physically dead. I don't think tens of thousands of people having their quality of life significantly downgraded indefinitely, and in many cases permanently, by financial ruin, lost businesses, etc because it might save a life somewhere along the line is justifiable. There's a cost to lowering the death toll, and some believe it should be paid no matter what.

Really? I never realized there was a internationally recognized quality of life standard? Personally I believe life is worth holding onto, because I find reasons to enjoy it.

I'm not sure what you're getting at. You said people will die from restrictions (presumably in a roundabout way) and I pretty much agreed with you. Some people out there are fine with that (or more accurately, just choose to not think about it) because all they care about seeing is a lower Covid death toll on the evening news. Only Covid deaths matter to some people. Not saying that's a prevalent theme in this thread specifically mind you. It seems to be the thought process of a former Alberta premier based on a radio segment I happened to listen to this morning though.