OT: Coronavirus XVII: Second Wave? More Like a Tsunami

[AM]

A fair enough point. We will see soon enough if the market can bear it when they go on strike.

Reminds me of the strike at the wood processing plant on argyle.

 

[doulos]

Reminds me of the strike at the wood processing plant on argyle.

I don't recall that one.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I agree that there are reasons for a mutation to become dominant. I just don't agree that there has been a driver for a less deadly strain to become dominant. The more contagious more easy reproducing strain that researches have already claimed has taken over from a less contagious one. And it has been spreading just fine with ample hosts available to continue the spread.

The originally theory that I was arguing against was that somehow people isolating at home was helping give rise to a weaker less deadly strain. I don't think the logistics of that add up at all. People properly distancing/isolating would work against any such new strain from being able to be a dominant strain, the only way such a strain could become dominant would be by the same mutation happening in perfect sync across hosts because it wouldn't get a chance to exist all over the place via real transmission. Such perfect mutation happening all over the world in sync obviously would make no sense at all and be impossible. The current dominant strain that has done a lot of damage has at no point killed hosts nearly quickly enough for there to be a demand for it to be less deadly as it continues to spread like mad through human populations.

Kind of seeing your point, but not fully. Virus is best understood in terms of permutations, probability. What gets selected for is the viral strains that gravitate MOST to being carried by walking, talking, largely asymptomatic people who continue to go about normal business. Thus, historically, a lot of coronavirus strains gravitating more to common cold level of lethality or impact.

While there can be a lot of doomsday scenario talk about some sort of super mutation to a virus that is more lethal this is largely selected against. Very lethal outbreaks burn through their hosts.

I do see your argument that as long as virgin territory and pop exists that the virus can continue to be fairly lethal and move through populations. But in established areas, the strains gravitate, because of social distancing, isolation, to the ones that are milder. The ones that can maintain through asymptomatic transmission.

I'll counter one point you made. Weaker strain X found in say Canada does not necessarily mean its the same identical genetic material as say weaker strain X in Germany, in Spain, etc. Countless mutations exist, just that many of them could be similar, in how, and how much they infect. If that makes any sense. So not identical mutation, likely not. But similar effect.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I don't recall that one.

Without realizing it you're supporting the point.

In terms of bit players the market doesn't even notice, or remember insignificant entity.

Thus making your "will the market bear it" comment just strange.

The retail grocery market in Edmonton won't even notice 12 stores not being in operation. For sure most of the consumers won't. Safeway flag front stores had negligible market share. Not enough to even be considered significant.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Without realizing it you're supporting the point.

In terms of bit players the market doesn't even notice, or remember insignificant entity.

Thus making your "will the market bear it" comment just strange.

The retail grocery market in Edmonton won't even notice 12 stores not being in operation. For sure most of the consumers won't. Safeway flag front stores had negligible market share. Not enough to even be considered significant.

I hate Safeway. The lighting is terrible, the colour scheme is depressing and the prices feel too high. I worked there for a bit when I was younger and I remember the union being shit too. Almost lost my job because I wouldn't take the union reps daughters shift.

Although everytime I've had to go there the lines were non existent.

Much prefer Save-On or the Belmont Sobeys.

 

[doulos]

Without realizing it you're supporting the point.

In terms of bit players the market doesn't even notice, or remember insignificant entity.

Thus making your "will the market bear it" comment just strange.

The retail grocery market in Edmonton won't even notice 12 stores not being in operation. For sure most of the consumers won't. Safeway flag front stores had negligible market share. Not enough to even be considered significant.

Yup I get it. Front liners making sure food is available to be sold should shut up and be thankful anyone bothers to even employ them during a pandemic.

Ill take the option behind door number two thanks.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I hate Safeway. The lighting is terrible, the colour scheme is depressing and the prices feel too high. I worked there for a bit when I was younger and I remember the union being shit too. Almost lost my job because I wouldn't take the union reps daughters shift.

Although everytime I've had to go there the lines were non existent.

Much prefer Save-On or the Belmont Sobeys.

Something we can agree on. Safeway was always overpriced shite. Classic high strung union shop "professionals" running around.

Sorry, but I never considered washing lettuce to be a profession. Anymore than I would a McD job.

Safeway falsely glorified what were essentially punter jobs with unsustainable pay and benefits. But they want more..


The "hero pay" was known to be a onetime pay uptick, by 2bucks an hour, for working in difficult times during a declared public emergency.

There is no longer a public emergency decree and the risks of the pandemic here have been a lot less than what was feared. So that the retailer sought to roll back the hero pay. That's what the union objects to. Seems unproductive.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Yup I get it. Front liners making sure food is available to be sold should shut up and be thankful anyone bothers to even employ them during a pandemic.

Ill take the option behind door number two thanks.

Not what I'm saying and you know that. You can't respond to the questions asked. I know that.

 

[doulos]

Not what I'm saying and you know that. You can't respond to the questions asked. I know that.

Great, let's move on. We can leave mariana trench between us.

 

[Dorian2]

This is a pretty interesting article on the virus mutation.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/science/2020/06/29/coronavirus-mutation-science/?arc404=true

And its ubiquity is undeniable. Of the approximately 50,000 genomes of the new virus that researchers worldwide have uploaded to a shared database, about 70 percent carry the mutation, officially designated D614G but known more familiarly to scientists as “G.”

The D614G mutation.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Something we can agree on. Safeway was always overpriced shite. Classic high strung union shop "professionals" running around.

Sorry, but I never considered washing lettuce to be a profession. Anymore than I would a McD job.

Safeway falsely glorified what were essentially punter jobs with unsustainable pay and benefits. But they want more..


The "hero pay" was known to be a onetime pay uptick, by 2bucks an hour, for working in difficult times during a declared public emergency.

There is no longer a public emergency decree and the risks of the pandemic here have been a lot less than what was feared. So that the retailer sought to roll back the hero pay. That's what the union objects to. Seems unproductive.

I know cashiers who worked at Safeway making high 20s an hour.

The issue with Safeways union is they don't seem to understand how good they have it, especially compared to the other grocery chains. Not saying anything about if the average cashier or stocker makes a fair wage but Safeway employees get paid very well thanks to their union. And even with all that, they all seem absolutely miserable and unhelpful.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

I'm pretty sure "Safeway" doesn't understand anything as Safeway doesn't exist.

Sobeys exists, at least continues to currently, but the decision to take over the remaining Safeway stores was a bad move, and has haunted the Sobeys chain ever since.

Its fascinating stuff ( I like reading business) but Sobeys at the time somehow felt that takeover of their long nemesis was somehow significant. It was meaningless. In the new marketplace their stiff competition was Superstore, Walmart, Costco, Save on. Safeway had stopped even being relevant by the time of the Sobeys takeover. Sobeys in effect wasted its money taking over the Safeway stores. Just seems like a pyrrhic victory.

In anycase we have many shopping options still during a pandemic and I'm thankful always, and say so, to the store staff working in these premises. I make a habit of saying "Thank you for working today" While always wearing a mask. Its just seemed like the right thing to do.

Safeway here does very well. And have probably the 3 largest grocery stores on island. Their prices range from high on meats (I wont buy steak or pork chops there unless they are on sale) to ok to reasonable on some other goods. Not sure if Sobeys took over the Canadian Safeway or the whole company worldwide but Im glad that we have our Safeways here.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

I know cashiers who worked at Safeway making high 20s an hour.

The issue with Safeways union is they don't seem to understand how good they have it, especially compared to the other grocery chains. Not saying anything about if the average cashier or stocker makes a fair wage but Safeway employees get paid very well thanks to their union. And even with all that, they all seem absolutely miserable and unhelpful.

If the are struggling as Drivesaitl is saying, at some point the union could be dealing with a lot of unemployed if they shut down completely.

 

[doulos]

https://nypost.com/2020/07/02/alabama-students-gamble-on-who-gets-sick-at-covid-19-parties/

What can you do when the populace exhibits this level of ignorance.

 

[Dorian2]

https://nypost.com/2020/07/02/alabama-students-gamble-on-who-gets-sick-at-covid-19-parties/

What can you do when the populace exhibits this level of ignorance.

Re jig their education system?

 

[doulos]

Re jig their education system?

Unfortunately the education system is a feature for many people, not a bug.

 

[Dorian2]

Unfortunately the education system is a feature for many people, not a bug.

You asked what you can do to when a populace exhibits that kind of ignorance. Not sure where an education as a feature for a bug comes in.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Safeway here does very well. And have probably the 3 largest grocery stores on island. Their prices range from high on meats (I wont buy steak or pork chops there unless they are on sale) to ok to reasonable on some other goods. Not sure if Sobeys took over the Canadian Safeway or the whole company worldwide but Im glad that we have our Safeways here.

Just the Canadian side. The weird thing is Sobeys prices are decent and the employees seem much better. Much better experience overall. Sobeys seems almost hands off with Safeway which hasn't helped. I had hoped it would improve Safeway but they just stayed bad.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I know cashiers who worked at Safeway making high 20s an hour.

The issue with Safeways union is they don't seem to understand how good they have it, especially compared to the other grocery chains. Not saying anything about if the average cashier or stocker makes a fair wage but Safeway employees get paid very well thanks to their union. And even with all that, they all seem absolutely miserable and unhelpful.

This is the problem. Safeway employees got paid, more than any similar employment, but they weren't providing stellar customer service. They were entitling union "professionals" to act like me first brats that go on strike at the first hint of anything. Safeway created self concerned employees. Not employees that were concerned with customers.

So many times decades ago where I walked out of a Safeway feeling the staff were outright rude and condescending. But it was the only stores within miles. Safeway at one point had like 80-85% market share. Now they have zero percent.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

I know cashiers who worked at Safeway making high 20s an hour.

The issue with Safeways union is they don't seem to understand how good they have it, especially compared to the other grocery chains. Not saying anything about if the average cashier or stocker makes a fair wage but Safeway employees get paid very well thanks to their union. And even with all that, they all seem absolutely miserable and unhelpful.

I worked at Safeway 15 years ago
my bosses are still working there all these years later...
why? they get compensated VERY well

 

[doulos]

You asked what you can do to when a populace exhibits that kind of ignorance. Not sure where an education as a feature for a bug comes in.

I meant the education system is working as intended according to many. I agree, a better education system would be a great solution though.

 

[CycloneSweep]

This is the problem. Safeway employees got paid, more than any similar employment, but they weren't providing stellar customer service. They were entitling union "professionals" to act like me first brats that go on strike at the first hint of anything. Safeway created self concerned employees. Not employees that were concerned with customers.

So many times decades ago where I walked out of a Safeway feeling the staff were outright rude and condescending. But it was the only stores within miles. Safeway at one point had like 80-85% market share. Now they have zero percent.

Yep. They are entitled and only care about a paycheque. Probably cause performance means little to their pay and their contracts are iron clad.

The Belmont Sobeys in Edmonton isn't the cheapest place around but it's such a pleasurable experience everytime I go. I'll pay a little extra not having to dread grocery shopping. Which is also why I refuse to go to Superstore

 

[doulos]

Anyways. Good luck to them. Wish more front line workers would strike in solidarity. See what happens when people suddenly canr get their food on time.

 

[Drivesaitl]

If the are struggling as Drivesaitl is saying, at some point the union could be dealing with a lot of unemployed if they shut down completely.

Safeway dropped off the Earth here in Canada. Due to the union.

Any remaining stores are figuratively maintaining the Safeways banner while actually being Sobeys. All were taken over by Sobeys, afairc in 2013. The chain was already nothing at that point and had closed the overwhelming majority of its stores in Alberta anyway.

For more than a decade here neighborhoods had to deal with closed, decrepit abandoned Safeway locations littering the landscape. With Safeway refusing to sell those or allow other retail or grocery tenants to move in. For around 15yrs the Edmonton association with Safeway was all those closed, barred up eyesore stores. It even became an issue with the City as when they wanted to improve areas, have better streets, retail options, Safeway balked and maintained the close storefronts in areas trying to revitilize. Safeway has mostly a bad name here. Bad actor retailer. Consumers here gladly went in any other direction.

 

[shoop]

Not sure if Sobeys took over the Canadian Safeway or the whole company worldwide but Im glad that we have our Safeways here.

Empire (the owner of Sobey's) bought Canada Safeway from Safeway in 2013. Their reason for doing so was fear of Target selling groceries in Canada. A little misjudgment on the part of whoever made that decision.

I know cashiers who worked at Safeway making high 20s an hour.

That must have been a long time ago. The 2015 scale tops out at just over $20 an hour. Although there is a reference in the collective agreement to 2003 salaries which might mean the scale was much higher way back then.