OT: Coronavirus XVII: Second Wave? More Like a Tsunami

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Drivesaitl

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Oct 8, 2017
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Just the Canadian side. The weird thing is Sobeys prices are decent and the employees seem much better. Much better experience overall. Sobeys seems almost hands off with Safeway which hasn't helped. I had hoped it would improve Safeway but they just stayed bad.

I described the Sobeys takeover as pyrrhic victory earlier on. Once Sobeys had taken over Safeway kind of a weird thing went on where all the Safeway versions were less stocked, less well equipped than the Sobeys stores. Almost seemed like a final insult to the vanquished Safeway, which Sobeys never knew what to do with. As mentioned taking over the Safeway locations was a big mistake for Sobeys. No reason for them to do it. Safeway was a long rotting brand.

Safeway from mission statement on always seemed more concerned with their own employees than with serving their market. I mean its a balance but any business that treats its customers so badly is not long for this business world.
 
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oobga

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Herman Cain hospitalized with COVID-19. Who could have guesseD?



Of course he's rich enough to reserve a hospital wing for himself. He'll probably be fine.
 
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Drivesaitl

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Empire (the owner of Sobey's) bought Canada Safeway from Safeway in 2013. Their reason for doing so was fear of Target selling groceries in Canada. A little misjudgment on the part of whoever made that decision.



That must have been a long time ago. The 2015 scale tops out at just over $20 an hour. Although there is a reference in the collective agreement to 2003 salaries which might mean the scale was much higher way back then.

Target, lol. Still laughing about that attempt in the Canadian market. What a fail that Canadian experiment was.

Heres a kicker that you know a store is flat out stupid. At the MWTC location they figure the top floor should be the grocery store. So that they had to retrofit a shopping cart escalator (escalators already existed but had to be completely redesigned) to move shopping carts up and down. At first people didn't know how to use them, as we'd never seen an escalator for shopping carts. People were doing it wrong. Wish I had taken pictures. It was like stupid store world.

I mean in a target, there was just junk on the first floor anyway, not like they were selling high priced items there on empty shelves. More confusing is some dry goods were on first floor, frozen groceries and milk, dairy, meat, produce other dry goods were on second floor. You had to navigate all over two floors looking just for groceries. We tried it a couple times more for a laugh than anything. We wanted the fail experience just see how wrong they could possibly get things. A common refrain was shoppers going through stating. Gee this store sucks.
 
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Drivesaitl

Finding Hyman
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Empire (the owner of Sobey's) bought Canada Safeway from Safeway in 2013. Their reason for doing so was fear of Target selling groceries in Canada. A little misjudgment on the part of whoever made that decision.



That must have been a long time ago. The 2015 scale tops out at just over $20 an hour. Although there is a reference in the collective agreement to 2003 salaries which might mean the scale was much higher way back then.

For clarity that agreement you cited is for stores being turned over to something called "freshco". I don't even know if any of that carried thru. I'm not aware of any freshco stores.

There are safeway stroe staff still in the 50K ballpark and the agreement even cites that.
 

Dorian2

Define that balance
Jul 17, 2009
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I meant the education system is working as intended according to many. I agree, a better education system would be a great solution though.

It would be a start at least. We all know the issue is a hella lot larger than simply re jigging 1 specific item in the never ending list of things that will result in the perfect Utopian society we all seem to wish for but know we won't get though. Only way I can describe it is "use your f***ing brain" when children are playing games that can result in a possible loss of life.
 

CycloneSweep

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Sep 27, 2017
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Target, lol. Still laughing about that attempt in the Canadian market. What a fail that Canadian experiment was.

Heres a kicker that you know a store is flat out stupid. At the MWTC location they figure the top floor should be the grocery store. So that they had to retrofit a shopping cart escalator (escalators already existed but had to be completely redesigned) to move shopping carts up and down. At first people didn't know how to use them, as we'd never seen an escalator for shopping carts. People were doing it wrong. Wish I had taken pictures. It was like stupid store world.

I mean in a target, there was just junk on the first floor anyway, not like they were selling high priced items there on empty shelves. More confusing is some dry goods were on first floor, frozen groceries and milk, dairy, meat, produce other dry goods were on second floor. You had to navigate all over two floors looking just for groceries. We tried it a couple times more for a laugh than anything. We wanted the fail experience just see how wrong they could possibly get things. A common refrain was shoppers going through stating. Gee this store sucks.
The issue with Target in Canada was that it wasn't even Target. It was just a failed Zellers copy. Target in the states has good budget clothing brands and food products. They brought none of it over. It's like the company didn't understand why they were successful in the first place
 

Tobias Kahun

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Oct 3, 2017
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The issue with Target in Canada was that it wasn't even Target. It was just a failed Zellers copy. Target in the states has good budget clothing brands and food products. They brought none of it over. It's like the company didn't understand why they were successful in the first place
They essentially took everything zellers and increased the price
 

Drivesaitl

Finding Hyman
Oct 8, 2017
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The issue with Target in Canada was that it wasn't even Target. It was just a failed Zellers copy. Target in the states has good budget clothing brands and food products. They brought none of it over. It's like the company didn't understand why they were successful in the first place

Never been to a target store in the states thus my WTF is this crap reaction to their Canadian debacle. It was a place so odd one would just go to it kind of like viewing a sideshow amusement. They had a lot of weird stuff nobody would ever buy, clothing lines here that were worse than Walmart garbage, and "food" using that term liberally.
 

CycloneSweep

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Never been to a target store in the states thus my WTF is this crap reaction to their Canadian debacle. It was a place so odd one would just go to it kind of like viewing a sideshow amusement. They had a lot of weird stuff nobody would ever buy, clothing lines here that were worse than Walmart garbage, and "food" using that term liberally.
It's much better down there
 
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oobga

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Aug 1, 2003
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Never been to a target store in the states thus my WTF is this crap reaction to their Canadian debacle. It was a place so odd one would just go to it kind of like viewing a sideshow amusement. They had a lot of weird stuff nobody would ever buy, clothing lines here that were worse than Walmart garbage, and "food" using that term liberally.

I've only really understood the value of the USA Target recently. Mainly regarding themed kid toys. Recent birthdays for my kids looking for toys based on their favorite things, searching the internet, the good stuff always ends up only being available in the USA target stores :) Keep having to get family in the USA to buy it for me and ship it up here.
 

shoop

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CycloneSweep

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If the moderators chastise memes that were seen as in bad taste by some users then a meme celebrating a black man getting covid is certainly something they should at least be aware of.
There was no meme. It was a link to one of his Tweets showing him openly not practicing social distancing or wearing a mask at a Trump rally and the person saying that it's not surprising he caught Covid when he was actively not being safe.
 

Drivesaitl

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Herman Cain hospitalized with COVID-19. Who could have guesseD?



Of course he's rich enough to reserve a hospital wing for himself. He'll probably be fine.

Selective. Countless jurisdictions in the US not even taking a look at the data on those attending riots and demonstrations, yet look for every opportunity of a Trump rally that may have led to something.

In the US right now in line with the timeframe of the Protests, in the locations, and in the demographic ages that attended them, those infected numbers are exploding.

But a post on twitter points to a Trump rally and says "There" and cites that bit of misdirection.

Why is there refusal to post real tracking information regarding protest attendees and infected. Why are US jurisdictions refusing to ask, tally, or post those numbers?

This is the kind of misdirection media seems to love. Oh look at that beach over there, or look at that Trump rally.

The Democrats never talk about the exploding numbers even possibly stemming from gatherings at the protests with people hugging, high fiving, smoking spliffs. Or the takeover tent village in Seattle with thousands taking over a whole DT neighborhood and shacking up together in situ. I mean none of that could have led to anything...well maybe pregnancy, stds, and...
 
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shoop

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Jul 6, 2008
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And to do so, they sold their entire movie theater chain

Correct. Empire sold their theatres at about the same time of the Safeway purchase. That was relatively small dollars though. The purchase price for Safeway was $5.8 Billion and Empire made $250 million selling off their theatres.
 
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doulos

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Oct 4, 2007
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All sorts of data has already been examined and we have moved on. There is little to no connection between the protests and large covid spikes. Next question.
 
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CycloneSweep

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The moderators haven't chastised the Tweet that was shared. Nothing in my comment refers to the Herman Cain tweet. Sorry if I left you with that impression.
Then what are you even talking about. There is no memes dunking on Herman Cain being shared
 

oobga

Tier 2 Fan
Aug 1, 2003
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Selective. Countless jurisdictions in the US not even taking a look at the data on those attending riots and demonstrations, yet look for every opportunity of a Trump rally that may have led to something.

In the US right now in line with the timeframe of the Protests, in the locations, and in the demographic ages that attended them, those infected numbers are exploding.

But a post on twitter points to a Trump rally and says "There" and cites that bit of misdirection.

Why is there refusal to post real tracking information regarding protest attendees and infected. Why are US jurisdictions refusing to ask, tally, or post those numbers?

This is the kind of misdirection media seems to love. Oh look at that beach over there, or look at that Trump rally.

The Democrats never talk about the exploding numbers even possibly stemming from gatherings at the protests with people hugging, high fiving, smoking spliffs. Or the takeover tent village in Seattle with thousands taking over a whole DT neighborhood and shaking up together in situ. I mean none of that could have led to anything...

Personally, I don't worry that much about beaches either, as long as people are keeping distance. Outdoor activities, especially in sunlight are looking more and more like the best way to stay sane if you absolutely need to get out. But I do think a huge indoor gathering where almost everyone there is giving the finger to putting any effort into stopping spread of the virus deserves some special attention. Who knows where Herman actually got it, sounds like he was also carelessly going about his business in Arizona right after that rally. His complete carelessness is what deserves the head shaking, and it was displayed very clearly at that rally.

For the rallies. I imagine information collection has some security concerns. There are already examples of cops using data collected from rallies to target people. Don't doubt there are some people being idiots at the rallies in was that could cause spread, but from what I've seen, for the most part people are making some effort to distance and wear masks. Plus it being outdoors. I personally don't doubt that the actual amount of spread from rallies is minimal. There would be some, but it's probably next to nothing compared to all the spread from indoor interactions of the many tens of millions of people not involved in any protests.
 

Drivesaitl

Finding Hyman
Oct 8, 2017
45,807
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Canuck hunting
I've only really understood the value of the USA Target recently. Mainly regarding themed kid toys. Recent birthdays for my kids looking for toys based on their favorite things, searching the internet, the good stuff always ends up only being available in the USA target stores :) Keep having to get family in the USA to buy it for me and ship it up here.

Thanks. I was trying to figure out some of what their thing even was. Seemed like a really odd retailer with really odd merchandise. I'm predisposed to trying to figure out who the customer demographic even was. With Target here it was never quite clear. They had more employees than customers here. Although they would all be unhelpful. "Hey, I can't find a snow shovel on your mostly empty shelves, do you stock that in Canada?"

Store employee; "haha, we don't have it, have a good day"

both of us laughing. The employee laughing at the store he works for. Fun times. ;)
 
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Drivesaitl

Finding Hyman
Oct 8, 2017
45,807
55,855
Canuck hunting
Personally, I don't worry that much about beaches either, as long as people are keeping distance. Outdoor activities, especially in sunlight are looking more and more like the best way to stay sane if you absolutely need to get out. But I do think a huge indoor gathering where almost everyone there is giving the finger to putting any effort into stopping spread of the virus deserves some special attention. Who knows where Herman actually got it, sounds like he was also carelessly going about his business in Arizona right after that rally. His complete carelessness is what deserves the head shaking, and it was displayed very clearly at that rally.

Thanks for replying. I agree that indoor gatherings are more risky. But a lot of the protests, riots, looting, involved indoors as well. Some of them involved tear gas. A lot of them involved personal contacts, house parties , stores, etc. For a lot of the youth involved they were the first nights out in quite awhile. A lot of them reportedly getting smashed, as well as smashing.

Its trite for the media, or supporters to say 15k-100K demonstrators getting together and meeting up would "all be fine". It was disingenuous. It was politically motivated to say that.

But nowhere was there more stretching of truth then what took place in the Seattle "Summer of love" I mean I want to laugh and cry at the same time. ;)
 

CupofOil

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Aug 20, 2009
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I know cashiers who worked at Safeway making high 20s an hour.

The issue with Safeways union is they don't seem to understand how good they have it, especially compared to the other grocery chains. Not saying anything about if the average cashier or stocker makes a fair wage but Safeway employees get paid very well thanks to their union. And even with all that, they all seem absolutely miserable and unhelpful.

For real?

I didn't think there was a cashier in the world making that much money. That's crazy high money for a job like that and people are justifying these workers going on strike during a pandemic where unemployment is at record high levels? Pfft
 

Stoneman89

Registered User
Feb 8, 2008
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Something we can agree on. Safeway was always overpriced shite. Classic high strung union shop "professionals" running around.

Sorry, but I never considered washing lettuce to be a profession. Anymore than I would a McD job.

Safeway falsely glorified what were essentially punter jobs with unsustainable pay and benefits. But they want more..


The "hero pay" was known to be a onetime pay uptick, by 2bucks an hour, for working in difficult times during a declared public emergency.

There is no longer a public emergency decree and the risks of the pandemic here have been a lot less than what was feared. So that the retailer sought to roll back the hero pay. That's what the union objects to. Seems unproductive.
I found it a bit bizarre when I read someone going on strike in these times, where a lot of people don't know where their next job will be, if one is even available.

I worked at Safeway for 10 years back in the day. I remember within the first couple years we went on strike I was a young buck then, against everything and anything right wing, corporations, etc. I would gladly eat the rich. After 2 weeks of sitting out in the parking lot rotating walking with signs in the parking lot and singing Kumbaya in the back of pickup trucks, our union heads settled for extra money for all. The problem, was that full timers went from a 40 hour week to a 38 hour week. So now they were expected to do the same work, but for less hours. Part time jobs started to disappear. Someone quit, and a replacement was never hired. So, basically a wash for the company., but all of us were back patting and congratulating each other for making the company "bend" for us. Lol. A few years later, when our contract came up again, it was rinse and repeat, this time without a strike but a threat of one. Same type of result, with full time hours reduced to 36 now, and further cuts by attrition to part time. By the time I left there, there was hardly any part time staff left, and full time seemed like a skeleton. Looking back, I was paid very well, matter of fact, one of the best part time wages in Alberta at the time, and the few years I worked full time, it certainly was decent for what I was expected to do. I think we were treated very well, in retrospect. I certainly got caught up in the "us against the world" frenzy, and was easily persuaded to go that way. By the time I left, the amount of work that was waiting for me when I came in from school on Wednesday, Thursday and Friday evenings was nearly insurmountable, and there was a small handful of us to do it. I was completely disillusioned and disheartened, and knew I made the right choice to go to another field of work. The moral was terrible when I left. Amazing though , was how much I really enjoyed the job the first few years, all the good friends and co-workers I met, and still keep in touch with, good memories, and then it just became toxic at the end.

Hope their doing the right thing this time, but history shows, they likely won't be much farther ahead, if at all. By the time there is the give and take from both sides, people will sit back and think, why the hell did we even do this.

Just one man's experience in stuff like this.

I
 
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