Coronavirus discussion thread (no political debates) V

[TheTotalPackage]

Unless the numbers are way up, don't think there will be a shutdown like in April and May. However, we might see rest. with more social distancing restrictions. I think Sept when school starts will be true test. People kept saying kids don't get infected....but ever since the shit down, kids(16 and under) don't really have opportunities to be in huge social gathering settings like schools. In a way, kids are not expose to COVID like seniors in long term care homes.

This is it. Kids haven’t gone to school. Play dates banned. Playgrounds closed. Play places shut down. They’ve had minimal interaction, so we won’t know once the kids are back in school (however that may look).

We have Italian family friends. They said the cause of the outbreak started with the kids. They go to school, and who watches them? Nonno and nonna. They pick it up their, it spreads throughout the villages of one of the oldest countries, and we saw what happened.

We just don’t know. I think everyone is susceptible. The younger and healthier you are, the more unlikely you’ll experience much, let alone die. But it’s those you spread it to you just don’t know.

 

[lottster14]

I was recently in Ottawa (they are in stage 3), and things seemed to be going smoothly around the city but they're experiencing a slight up-tick in cases. We just need to take these hits but school is a tough debate and scenario right now.. must be tough on lots of parents

 

[Gabriel426]

This is it. Kids haven’t gone to school. Play dates banned. Playgrounds closed. Play places shut down. They’ve had minimal interaction, so we won’t know once the kids are back in school (however that may look).

We have Italian family friends. They said the cause of the outbreak started with the kids. They go to school, and who watches them? Nonno and nonna. They pick it up their, it spreads throughout the villages of one of the oldest countries, and we saw what happened.

We just don’t know. I think everyone is susceptible. The younger and healthier you are, the more unlikely you’ll experience much, let alone die. But it’s those you spread it to you just don’t know.

Could not put it better myself

 

[Gabriel426]

I was recently in Ottawa (they are in stage 3), and things seemed to be going smoothly around the city but they're experiencing a slight up-tick in cases. We just need to take these hits but school is a tough debate and scenario right now.. must be tough on lots of parents

The BC govt announced school will pretty much be back to normal come Sept. Interestingly enough the teachers union left before the announcements, which a lot of us(people living in BC) are wondering did this plan consider the opinions of the teachers.
i understand about planning but at the current climate, it is a very tough choice for the parents. Now every family is different, I can only comment on my own, the fact that having both my parents living with my family plus my mum just finished Chemo Treatment two weeks ago, I am not leaning toward having my kids in school. What bothers me is that they are not even providing the option of online learning like in April, May and June.
Personally, I don’t understand why they are not doing what they did in June, where you have the option to go to school or stay home for online learning. Then see how it goes before jumping to everyone back in school....
Just seem like a rush decision to me.

 

[taurine330]

This is it. Kids haven’t gone to school. Play dates banned. Playgrounds closed. Play places shut down. They’ve had minimal interaction, so we won’t know once the kids are back in school (however that may look).

I don't think this is completely valid. The numbers in Finland are still down. The kids never stopped hanging out. Playgrounds have not been closed. The kids even went back to school in the end of May and kindergartens and preschools never closed up in the first place.

 

[Nineteen67]

Well the mask isn't 100% effective and Fauci said you now need eye protection. I think you should volunteer and get tested anytime you go out into public or come into contact with people that have been out in public. I would also suggest this is common place for people that get vaccinated because as we know with flu vaccinations, the science is that they are 60% at best effective. That means you must also get tested routinely because alternatively, see countries that did not lock down. I mean, lets be honest, it's really going to come down to that or just embrace herd immunity, embrace the results of the countries that did not really lockdown and embrace the best working treatment that we know of... HCQ + Zinc + Azithromyacin. I posed some numbers above of limited to no lockdown countries treating with HCQ and Zinc. Looks good enough to me to get this puppy open and playing some hockey with some precautions naturally.

so sad that this was a known solution as early as March/April and now, if he hasn’t changed his mind, one of the biggest opponents wants us to wear goggles.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Way too many unknowns with COVID19 to make credible policy decisions. Best bet is to take as many precautions personally as you can. But live your life as you see fit. No one fully knows da symptoms, how someone actually gets it, how someone reacts to it, even how to treat it. Taking kids out of school and stopping people from working as a result of closing schools will only make things worse.

 

[Peasy]

Has there even been a vetted, peer research journal that showed positive effects of HCQ when using a blind study?

If not, then how can you claim that is the reason the patients recovered?

 

[thewave]

so sad that this was a known solution as early as March/April and now, if he hasn’t changed his mind, one of the biggest opponents wants us to wear goggles.

Some would have us believe the science is settled. It is not. Some would have you believe masks will work, they will not and if you don't believe me, spray a shot of air freshener through one and tell me if the outside air smells fresh. Blow smoke through it in a room and tell me if the smoke can be detected because if it is... You know what let the people wear goggles and next a dunce hat while losing most of their assets. I just run with the assumption that people who agree with these dangerous measures have nothing to lose and the handouts are greater than their take for less effort. Not in all cases but enough hard data suggests these measures are not appropriate, not effective enough while massive HCQ Zinc studies are done and actual lives are being saved while nation's embracing it have some of the lowest death rates.

The question will soon be to what extent is our gov criminally negligent

 

[Whiskey In the Jar]

What's the plan in Toronto currently, when will the spectators allowed to enter to watch games? Surely the next season cannot be played on empty crowd, that would be too enermous financial loss for all teams. Is it even survivable? Salaries need to adjust? What a mess....

 

[LeafParade]

Has there even been a vetted, peer research journal that showed positive effects of HCQ when using a blind study?

If not, then how can you claim that is the reason the patients recovered?

I been staying away from this thread because I am actually in this field.

None of the 'good' studies show benefit as far as I know. The random anecdotal evidence from observation studies are not good evidence. It has been utter chaos in most ICU's, there are no controlling of anything in those environments.

Also, many doctors are NOT trained as researchers. You would be shocked how poor the comprehension of research is when it comes to some doctors. Medical school only requires intro epidemiology course and the vast majority of doctors are not involved in research. I wish people would stop quoting random doctors. They see an MD beside the name and they assume they are credible.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

What's the plan in Toronto currently, when will the spectators allowed to enter to watch games? Surely the next season cannot be played on empty crowd, that would be too enermous financial loss for all teams. Is it even We will see what Leafs say in early September ... it seems to keep getting pushed down da road ... some of us parked our seats for 2020/21 some time back ... but whole thing is very confusing ... I doubt there will even be a 2020/21 season as this HUB thing can't fly for an entire season ... my guess when a vaccine is finalized then hockey will be back ... if not expect 2020/21 season will be cancelled

 

[Peasy]

Some would have us believe the science is settled. It is not. Some would have you believe masks will work, they will not and if you don't believe me, spray a shot of air freshener through one and tell me if the outside air smells fresh. Blow smoke through it in a room and tell me if the smoke can be detected because if it is... You know what let the people wear goggles and next a dunce hat while losing most of their assets. I just run with the assumption that people who agree with these dangerous measures have nothing to lose and the handouts are greater than their take for less effort. Not in all cases but enough hard data suggests these measures are not appropriate, not effective enough while massive HCQ Zinc studies are done and actual lives are being saved while nation's embracing it have some of the lowest death rates.

The question will soon be to what extent is our gov criminally negligent

Please show me a blind, well done study that proves these claims. Not just, we gave 100 people in their 30s hcq and they all survived so that must mean that was the reason!!!

Are you one of the people believing the doctor that also claims sex demons are real?

 

[Blue Nate]

Some would have us believe the science is settled. It is not. Some would have you believe masks will work, they will not and if you don't believe me, spray a shot of air freshener through one and tell me if the outside air smells fresh. Blow smoke through it in a room and tell me if the smoke can be detected because if it is... You know what let the people wear goggles and next a dunce hat while losing most of their assets. I just run with the assumption that people who agree with these dangerous measures have nothing to lose and the handouts are greater than their take for less effort. Not in all cases but enough hard data suggests these measures are not appropriate, not effective enough while massive HCQ Zinc studies are done and actual lives are being saved while nation's embracing it have some of the lowest death rates.

The question will soon be to what extent is our gov criminally negligent

the 'hard data' has been largely anecdotal so far and is being pushed by Republicans who have vested interest in the sales and distribution of the HCQ.

 

[Bomber0104]

What's the plan in Toronto currently, when will the spectators allowed to enter to watch games? Surely the next season cannot be played on empty crowd, that would be too enermous financial loss for all teams. Is it even survivable? Salaries need to adjust? What a mess....

If the NHL is taking notes from any of the other major leagues, they're literally taking this one week at a time.

I don't believe there's been much thought or planning for next season.

 

[thewave]

Please show me a blind, well done study that proves these claims. Not just, we gave 100 people in their 30s hcq and they all survived so that must mean that was the reason!!!

Are you one of the people believing the doctor that also claims sex demons are real?

Entire countries are using the protocol and they have the best outcomes to date. I suppose we can just ignore entire countries data though, I mean, the lady you speak of is one of hundreds of licensed physicians using it. The French study way back had over 90% success and near 100% for the younger and relatively healthy.

It's actually a more conspiratorial stance to ignore all of these doctors and countries data IMHO. If multiple doctors are saying I haven't lost a CV patient yet using HCQ + Zinc + Zpack, it would be the first thing I demand for my own treatment and that's a fact. You can wear goggles if you like though.

 

[thewave]

the 'hard data' has been largely anecdotal so far and is being pushed by Republicans who have vested interest in the sales and distribution of the HCQ.

The hard data from multiple countries using the protocol? Is it a multi national conspiracy with thousands of doctors on board?

Scares me if true.

 

[Peasy]

Entire countries are using the protocol and they have the best outcomes to date. I suppose we can just ignore entire countries data though, I mean, the lady you speak of is one of hundreds of licensed physicians using it. The French study way back had over 90% success and near 100% for the younger and relatively healthy.

It's actually a more conspiratorial stance to ignore all of these doctors and countries data IMHO. If multiple doctors are saying I haven't lost a CV patient yet using HCQ + Zinc + Zpack, it would be the first thing I demand for my own treatment and that's a fact. You can wear goggles if you like though.

Your "hard data" has to much noise and potential for other interferences to definitively claim that hcq is the reason for success.

And just because someone is a licensed physician does not make them an epidemiologist, or a researcher.

I wouldnt trust a pediatrician with performing neurosurgery, I would want a neurologist for that. They're both licensed physicians, but they are experts in completely different fields.

 

[thewave]

I'm still waiting on this evidence.

The results are so profound and the risk so low. HCQ is over the counter in countries as well as Zinc. You use the protocol, although if the statistically lowest rates of mortality are not good enough for you, that's fine. Just don't stand in the way of people who want this treatment option. While they double blind and talk in circles, people die for possibly no reason.

 

[Peasy]

The results are so profound and the risk so low. HCQ is over the counter in countries as well as Zinc. You use the protocol, although if the statistically lowest rates of mortality are not good enough for you, that's fine. Just don't stand in the way of people who want this treatment option. While they double blind and talk in circles, people die for possibly no reason.

Yet you struggle to provide any well documented research and studies proving the claim...

 

[Blue Nate]

The hard data from multiple countries using the protocol? Is it a multi national conspiracy with thousands of doctors on board?

Scares me if true.

What hard data and which doctors. The 'demon semen' lady?

 

[keonsbitterness]

Well the mask isn't 100% effective and Fauci said you now need eye protection. I think you should volunteer and get tested anytime you go out into public or come into contact with people that have been out in public. I would also suggest this is common place for people that get vaccinated because as we know with flu vaccinations, the science is that they are 60% at best effective. That means you must also get tested routinely because alternatively, see countries that did not lock down. I mean, lets be honest, it's really going to come down to that or just embrace herd immunity, embrace the results of the countries that did not really lockdown and embrace the best working treatment that we know of... HCQ + Zinc + Azithromyacin. I posed some numbers above of limited to no lockdown countries treating with HCQ and Zinc. Looks good enough to me to get this puppy open and playing some hockey with some precautions naturally.

9.5/10 for satire.

 

[Gabriel426]

I don't think this is completely valid. The numbers in Finland are still down. The kids never stopped hanging out. Playgrounds have not been closed. The kids even went back to school in the end of May and kindergartens and preschools never closed up in the first place.

Then there is HK where they started school again and numbers went straight up in the second month and school once again cancelled.
Situations varies and I don’t think anyone can clearly state this will works....
I think the govt should provide options for the public, I just don’t see why they can’t ease the kids back to school with option like the BC govt did in June, where parents can send their kids to school-part time and also provide the option of online learning if parents chose to. Esp since the numbers today is not better than the numbers in May when they announced the back to school plan in June.

 

[Gabriel426]

Way too many unknowns with COVID19 to make credible policy decisions. Best bet is to take as many precautions personally as you can. But live your life as you see fit. No one fully knows da symptoms, how someone actually gets it, how someone reacts to it, even how to treat it. Taking kids out of school and stopping people from working as a result of closing schools will only make things worse.

Everyone situations is different. To me, govt should do its best to help its people and by coming out (BC govt) and say Schools will be open and there will no longer be An option for online learning mainly based on the data from the opening of schools in June(only part time for students-no more than 2 days per week, plus most choosing to stay with online learning.) is a complete joke.
Just don’t see why they didn’t choose to continue with the format in June and need to jump straight in with having all kids back to school. With no rules about temperature check or mandatory masks.
It is no coincidence that the Teachers union left the press conference literally minutes before and from what I have been reading, the teachers union might strike and they will have a lot of parents backing. As all they want is a safe environment for the kids and themselves.
I am not calling for let’s keep the schools closed but there is the option of slowly easing every kids back, such as what they did in June, instead of rushing everyone back, when the numbers today is the same if not worse than when the announcement was made for the reopening of school on June 1 in late April or early May.

 

[Polaris1010]

We either believe in science and in math, or we don't.

The criteria for what is true in science and math, is not really up for discussion.

Scientific evidence is different from anecdotal evidence.

This Covid-19 is a serious disease. It is better to stick to the former than the later.