Coronavirus and the Washington Capitals

[Corby78]

This is supposed to be the phase they do get positive tests so this alone shouldn’t end it, but unless they are going full quarantine then I don’t see this being pulled off safely.

my thoughts too, less players to possibly carry/catch it later. If you want zero positive we won’t see sports ever again. Cv-19 will never fully go away.

 

[Corby78]

I was also against restarting the season, but was swayed into going ahead with it because I thought that COVID-19 would be going down in number of infections by the end of summer/beginning of fall. Much like how the numbers have dramatically fallen in much if the worst hit countries in Europe who are doing much better now.

But the numbers are now increasing again in this country. It's almost unbelievable how certain regions flaunt their not caring anymore like you said about Florida. Its staggering. We've hit 30,000 new infections in a single day again yesterday! Numbers we haven't seen since April or early May during the peak!

This isn't even a second wave. Its still the first wave that should have been dealt with by now.

If we can't even get out of our own way, I can't see how reopening large events will be a good idea any time in the near future.

more testing is one reason. But how are the deaths? We are seeing a lot more positive asystematic tests. I still believe tons of us already had it months ago.

 

[tenken00]

more testing is one reason. But how are the deaths? We are seeing a lot more positive asystematic tests. I still believe tons of us already had it months ago.

Deaths are still low (if you consider 700 people a day low.. but better than the more than 3000 a day a month ago), but usually deaths come after infection and not before.. So we won't really know about this spike until weeks to come.

 

[Corby78]

All I know is I’d rather be here in Florida than where I have family up in Illinois. The medical community isn’t overwhelmed and people aren’t freaking out. Still doing some measures to limit exposure but we arent shutting down businesses and people are working.

Also happy Father’s Day to everyone, I hope you find a way to spend time with the family in whatever restrictions you have.

 

[txpd]

What measures?

 

[Corby78]

What measures?

wearing masks, keeping distances in lines, restaurants at 50% or outdoors only. A lot of people are still limiting their “public” time, no gyms, only one person in a grocery store, etc... it’s really up to each individual to decide how much exposure they are willing to take. We have older friends who are still limiting themselves and my wife’s friend is still staying home because she has respiratory issues. As long as the hospitals and doctors are good, I like having individual options.

 

[twabby]

The problem with allowing individuals to make their own choices is that their choices affect others. After all wearing a mask isn’t for your protection.

Florida’s response to COVID has been a disaster. Thousands are going to die unnecessarily as the state enters exponential growth in infections and Ron DeSantis is intentionally obfuscating simple facts and putting more lives at risk simply because he wants to please Trump.

Many things about this state are very good, but the government isn’t one of them.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

wearing masks, keeping distances in lines, restaurants at 50% or outdoors only. A lot of people are still limiting their “public” time, no gyms, only one person in a grocery store, etc... it’s really up to each individual to decide how much exposure they are willing to take. We have older friends who are still limiting themselves and my wife’s friend is still staying home because she has respiratory issues. As long as the hospitals and doctors are good, I like having individual options.

No offense intended, but Florida's response has been a disaster. They are setting daily records for new cases (>3,000/day) and it's not due to increased testing rates so the only other potential explanations are that people aren't following guidance on how to prevent the spread of Covid or the government hasn't been aggressive enough in implementing and enforcing effective policies. You and your close circle may be following guidelines (and thank you for doing so) but because of the actions of countless others we're going to feel the pain of this for years while many other countries who took this seriously from the beginning largely have it entirely behind them.

Without breaking the rules on politics, unfortunately you just need to follow party lines to look at places where the virus is spreading. Over the past two weeks, 8 out of the 10 states with the fastest growing rates (corrected for testing rates) voted red in 2016 and most of those states have governors who are very outspoken in favor of the sitting president while downplaying concerns about the virus. When you have civic and political leaders calling the virus concerns overblown or saying it's unconstitutional to enforce stay-at-home orders or wearing masks then the rank-and-file citizens are going to follow suit. And here is someone in Florida running for Congress with over 28,000 followers spreading factually incorrect information.

 

[txpd]

wearing masks, keeping distances in lines, restaurants at 50% or outdoors only. A lot of people are still limiting their “public” time, no gyms, only one person in a grocery store, etc... it’s really up to each individual to decide how much exposure they are willing to take. We have older friends who are still limiting themselves and my wife’s friend is still staying home because she has respiratory issues. As long as the hospitals and doctors are good, I like having individual options.

And when the hospitals and doctors are not good, its too late. It will be interesting to see what Dr Fauci and the CDC say about FL today before congress. Which NHL facility got shutdown over infections? Tampa Bay? Arent there a number of MLB players in FL positive?

The speed limit isn't an individual decision for a reason

 

[kicksavedave]

Well, I'll go there. When you have a sitting president actually say "I told them to slow down the testing", and essentially trying to order states to reopen to boost the economy, and then a bunch of governors are literally following his lead, the end result is that we are going to see phase 1 just continue and roll on indefinitely. In order to eradicate a pandemic like New Zealand has done, you have to be ultra disciplined until you have stopped the spread. Much of the US, even blue states, have simply not done that at all, although red states have done worse, even deep blue California is reopening too soon and cases are not dwindling, they are growing.

So back to hockey, the infection rates are going to climb again, and group gatherings are a main source of spread, so I am having a hard time seeing the plans to crank up the 2020 sports years actually ending up happening. I could easily see them getting close to opening, starting training camps, then teams having multiple players test positive, then we see a handful of players go home and the league has to shut it all down. I'd be shocked if this isn't how it goes down.... try to restart, have multiple positive tests, then call it off.

I'm afraid the entire 2020 team sports calendar is going to be a complete wash. I hope I'm wrong but this is what I see happening if sports, just like most states, try to do this before the virus is completely under control.

 

[g00n]

And when the hospitals and doctors are not good, its too late. It will be interesting to see what Dr Fauci and the CDC say about FL today before congress. Which NHL facility got shutdown over infections? Tampa Bay? Arent there a number of MLB players in FL positive?

The speed limit isn't an individual decision for a reason

I think also florida...

An entire team in the top women's soccer league dropped out of their return to action after 6 players tested positive for coronavirus following trip to local bar

 

[Corby78]

The problem with allowing individuals to make their own choices is that their choices affect others. After all wearing a mask isn’t for your protection.

Florida’s response to COVID has been a disaster. Thousands are going to die unnecessarily as the state enters exponential growth in infections and Ron DeSantis is intentionally obfuscating simple facts and putting more lives at risk simply because he wants to please Trump.

Many things about this state are very good, but the government isn’t one of them.

No offense intended, but Florida's response has been a disaster. They are setting daily records for new cases (>3,000/day) and it's not due to increased testing rates so the only other potential explanations are that people aren't following guidance on how to prevent the spread of Covid or the government hasn't been aggressive enough in implementing and enforcing effective policies. You and your close circle may be following guidelines (and thank you for doing so) but because of the actions of countless others we're going to feel the pain of this for years while many other countries who took this seriously from the beginning largely have it entirely behind them.

Without breaking the rules on politics, unfortunately you just need to follow party lines to look at places where the virus is spreading. Over the past two weeks, 8 out of the 10 states with the fastest growing rates (corrected for testing rates) voted red in 2016 and most of those states who have governors who are very outspoken in favor of the sitting president while downplaying concerns about the virus. When you have civic and political leaders calling the virus concerns overblown or saying it's unconstitutional to enforce stay-at-home orders or wearing masks then the rank-and-file citizens are going to follow suit. And here is someone in Florida running for Congress with over 28,000 followers spreading factually incorrect information.

We are going to have to agree to disagree. First it is a little disingenuous to say thousands are going to die unnecessarily, when Florida is only sitting at just over 3K right now and the death rate is lower than April/May. We are in fact also testing more people, my wife works in the medical field and can attest to the fact. There is also a free test centers like the one at UWF that wasn't there a couple months ago and you can get tested anytime you want. We also have the lowest case/per thousand in the SE and its much lower than blue states like in the NE and California (if we really want to make it political). Also lets not act like people are being forced to go out in public against their will. I am all for regulations when the medical community may be overwhelmed and the outbrake would get out of control. But I don't see that here. I think we should be easing slowly back into things and being careful, and that is what I'm seeing happen where I live. We aren't going to have a vaccine for another 9-12 month, and it usually takes 2-3 years to do valid testing. So if your waiting for a cure you need to come to grips that we will need to accept some risk here. Of course opening up with bring more positive test, but we are treating patients better, keeping medical facilities at a safe level, and getting people out of the house and back to work.

I've lived in a number of states during my military career, and there are some bad state governments. Florida is by far the best I've seen. North Dakota wasn't bad either, but they were too afraid of growth. Louisiana is by far the worst I've seen, with Illinois coming in second.

Also, I'm not going to go crazy over one person stating something probably out of context (though I don't agree with her) when we have sitting Representative who thinks Guam can flip over, a speaker of the house who thinks unemployment benefits creates jobs, another Representative who threatened a reporter and said he would throw him off the balcony, anther who stated the constitution was 400 years old and Vietnam was still split into N/S, and go ahead and insert your favorite Trump tweet here, and another Rep who claims to have completed a "Gay Exorcism". We even have a social justice leader who wants a statue of Jesus taken down because he represents white-supremacy. There is a lot of stupid out there. (I included both left and right stupid so don't take this as a political leaning statement)

 

[Corby78]

And when the hospitals and doctors are not good, its too late. It will be interesting to see what Dr Fauci and the CDC say about FL today before congress. Which NHL facility got shutdown over infections? Tampa Bay? Arent there a number of MLB players in FL positive?

The speed limit isn't an individual decision for a reason

If opening up stressed the medical community again, I would be in favor of shutting back down. Its not happening right now. More and more of the positives are asymptomatic.

 

[Corby78]

Well, I'll go there. When you have a sitting president actually say "I told them to slow down the testing", and essentially trying to order states to reopen to boost the economy, and then a bunch of governors are literally following his lead, the end result is that we are going to see phase 1 just continue and roll on indefinitely. In order to eradicate a pandemic like New Zealand has done, you have to be ultra disciplined until you have stopped the spread. Much of the US, even blue states, have simply not done that at all, although red states have done worse, even deep blue California is reopening too soon and cases are not dwindling, they are growing.

So back to hockey, the infection rates are going to climb again, and group gatherings are a main source of spread, so I am having a hard time seeing the plans to crank up the 2020 sports years actually ending up happening. I could easily see them getting close to opening, starting training camps, then teams having multiple players test positive, then we see a handful of players go home and the league has to shut it all down. I'd be shocked if this isn't how it goes down.... try to restart, have multiple positive tests, then call it off.

I'm afraid the entire 2020 team sports calendar is going to be a complete wash. I hope I'm wrong but this is what I see happening if sports, just like most states, try to do this before the virus is completely under control.

I don't see any way to do it with fans. Teams/leagues will also have to be ok with positive test here and there. If you are looking for zero positives, then your right its not going to happen till we get a tested vaccine.

 

[txpd]

If opening up stressed the medical community again, I would be in favor of shutting back down. Its not happening right now. More and more of the positives are asymptomatic.

The hospitalizations in TX and AZ are not a good sign. Don't play with fire. My question is....why is it that the people that fight the hardest to open the society up are at the same time the most resistant to doing anything hold the progression of the virus back. Logic would suggest that that against restrictions or precautions just don't believe there is a threat to them

 

[g00n]

We are going to have to agree to disagree. First it is a little disingenuous to say thousands are going to die unnecessarily, when Florida is only sitting at just over 3K right now and the death rate is lower than April/May. We are in fact also testing more people, my wife works in the medical field and can attest to the fact. There is also a free test centers like the one at UWF that wasn't there a couple months ago and you can get tested anytime you want. We also have the lowest case/per thousand in the SE and its much lower than blue states like in the NE and California (if we really want to make it political). Also lets not act like people are being forced to go out in public against their will. I am all for regulations when the medical community may be overwhelmed and the outbrake would get out of control. But I don't see that here. I think we should be easing slowly back into things and being careful, and that is what I'm seeing happen where I live. We aren't going to have a vaccine for another 9-12 month, and it usually takes 2-3 years to do valid testing. So if your waiting for a cure you need to come to grips that we will need to accept some risk here. Of course opening up with bring more positive test, but we are treating patients better, keeping medical facilities at a safe level, and getting people out of the house and back to work.

I've lived in a number of states during my military career, and there are some bad state governments. Florida is by far the best I've seen. North Dakota wasn't bad either, but they were too afraid of growth. Louisiana is by far the worst I've seen, with Illinois coming in second.

Also, I'm not going to go crazy over one person stating something probably out of context (though I don't agree with her) when we have sitting Representative who thinks Guam can flip over, a speaker of the house who thinks unemployment benefits creates jobs, another Representative who threatened a reporter and said he would throw him off the balcony, anther who stated the constitution was 400 years old and Vietnam was still split into N/S, and go ahead and insert your favorite Trump tweet here, and another Rep who claims to have completed a "Gay Exorcism". We even have a social justice leader who wants a statue of Jesus taken down because he represents white-supremacy. There is a lot of stupid out there. (I included both left and right stupid so don't take this as a political leaning statement)

Daily State-by-State Testing Trends

Florida is not testing significantly more than it was in May. Note the rise in positive cases that does not track proportionally with testing volume.

There is also concern Florida has been lowballing COVID deaths by classifying many as pneumonia or similar.

Florida’s Seen a ‘Statistically Significant’ Uptick in Pneumonia Deaths. The CDC Says It’s Likely COVID.

 

[Corby78]

The hospitalizations in TX and AZ are not a good sign. Don't play with fire. My question is....why is it that the people that fight the hardest to open the society up are at the same time the most resistant to doing anything hold the progression of the virus back. Logic would suggest that that against restrictions or precautions just don't believe there is a threat to them

I can't speak for TX/AZ, and I can't speak for everyone here in FL, but I can tell you what I see where I'm at. It isn't that we don't see a threat, and its not that we don't care. But many here feel we need to start pressing the limits and seeing what is possible. Like I said before the vaccine is a ways off. This is the reality of the world we live in, its not going to just vanish if wait it out. People aren't forced to do things, so they can stay home, continue to get pickup groceries, watch church from home, or whatever. But the medical people here are comfortable, the numbers in our county are good, and we are still taking steps. It's not like we are 100% open and flaunting running around down here. We may need to bring it back in, who knows. And if DC isn't ready, or you aren't ready fine. Let us take some steps down here and test the waters, stay up there and we will let you know how it goes.

 

[g00n]

I can't speak for TX/AZ, and I can't speak for everyone here in FL, but I can tell you what I see where I'm at. It isn't that we don't see a threat, and its not that we don't care. But many here feel we need to start pressing the limits and seeing what is possible. Like I said before the vaccine is a ways off. This is the reality of the world we live in, its not going to just vanish if wait it out. People aren't forced to do things, so they can stay home, continue to get pickup groceries, watch church from home, or whatever. But the medical people here are comfortable, the numbers in our county are good, and we are still taking steps. It's not like we are 100% open and flaunting running around down here. We may need to bring it back in, who knows. And if DC isn't ready, or you aren't ready fine. Let us take some steps down here and test the waters, stay up there and we will let you know how it goes.

We know how it's going and it's not good.

It's also not just about individual choice. It's all related. People around become sick and spread PRESYMPTOMATICALLY, so they take fewer precautions and may expose those who are still trying to protect themselves. Politicians who push an agenda of denial are trying to cut people off from stimulus and unemployment as predicted. People are being forced to choose between their own level of comfort and safety, and a forced exposure to a potentially deadly virus on the basis of "we'll see how bad it really is, business first, don't tell ME what to do".

 

[Corby78]

Daily State-by-State Testing Trends

Florida is not testing significantly more than it was in May. Note the rise in positive cases that does not track proportionally with testing volume.

View attachment 351140

There is also concern Florida has been lowballing COVID deaths by classifying many as pneumonia or similar.

Florida’s Seen a ‘Statistically Significant’ Uptick in Pneumonia Deaths. The CDC Says It’s Likely COVID.

We have tested more in June than any other month. We started opening back up a month ago, so that chart coincides with that. Our local hospital has tested more in the last two weeks than any other period, as has the local testing facility at UWF.

A lot of the "hiding figures" numbers articles are also number corrections in reality. Many deaths down here were being claimed as CV-19 any time it may have been possible to help the families with financial support. The correction back to normal isn't a "scam" to hide numbers. At least not in my wife's hospital or the couple doctors I know personally. But just like everything now there isn't anything people can agree on. There are doctors all over this country saying completely different things. Even Dr. Fauci keeps going back and forth on things.

 

[txpd]

People aren't forced to do things, so they can stay home, continue to get pickup groceries, watch church from home, or whatever. But the medical people here are comfortable.

1. People aren't forced. You mean they don't have to live in fear? Don't have to be dem sheep? The thing about this attitude that bugs me the most is that most of us are comfortable if you will take precautions. But those that take your attitude think the precautions are full of shit.

2. Got a link for me on the docs being comfortable? My google didn't show me any of that. To the contrary.

3. Ive had this crap. I got in Florida.

 

[g00n]

We have tested more in June than any other month. We started opening back up a month ago, so that chart coincides with that. Our local hospital has tested more in the last two weeks than any other period, as has the local testing facility at UWF.

A lot of the "hiding figures" numbers articles are also number corrections in reality. Many deaths down here were being claimed as CV-19 any time it may have been possible to help the families with financial support. The correction back to normal isn't a "scam" to hide numbers. At least not in my wife's hospital or the couple doctors I know personally. But just like everything now there isn't anything people can agree on. There are doctors all over this country saying completely different things. Even Dr. Fauci keeps going back and forth on things.

Let me ask you something.

So what?

Even if all these rationalizations are true, doesn't it still mean there are more people with the virus spreading it around? And it's not abating like some predicted with the warm weather?

 

[txpd]

Many deaths down here were being claimed as CV-19 any time it may have been possible to help the families with financial support.

Stop. This conversation is not worth continuing. Lets go back to hockey. Its better than conspiracies. Many deaths arent really C19. Ok...Next?

 

[g00n]

We have tested more in June than any other month. We started opening back up a month ago, so that chart coincides with that. Our local hospital has tested more in the last two weeks than any other period, as has the local testing facility at UWF.

A lot of the "hiding figures" numbers articles are also number corrections in reality. Many deaths down here were being claimed as CV-19 any time it may have been possible to help the families with financial support. The correction back to normal isn't a "scam" to hide numbers. At least not in my wife's hospital or the couple doctors I know personally. But just like everything now there isn't anything people can agree on. There are doctors all over this country saying completely different things. Even Dr. Fauci keeps going back and forth on things.

Also look at the BLUE LINE in that graph. That's the % of tests that are positive. More testing wouldn't wipe out the jump in % positive, it would lower it. We're seeing the opposite, in spades. More testing plus a higher % of positive is BAD. Not good. It's several times higher than in May.

You are being lied to, and "some people say" is the wedge.

 

[Corby78]

We know how it's going and it's not good.

It's also not just about individual choice. It's all related. People around become sick and spread PRESYMPTOMATICALLY, so they take fewer precautions and may expose those who are still trying to protect themselves. Politicians who push an agenda of denial are trying to cut people off from stimulus and unemployment as predicted. People are being forced to choose between their own level of comfort and safety, and a forced exposure to a potentially deadly virus on the basis of "we'll see how bad it really is, business first, don't tell ME what to do".

Goon unfortunately we aren't going to agree on this. I haven't seen one person cut off from stimulus or unemployment down here. If people want to stay home they are free to do so without punishment. So they have a choice to isolate themselves more, if they feel they need to. If you want to stay home, do so. I'm not forcing you to do anything. Me driving to work and sitting in my office, going out on my boat, or sitting at a restaurant with every other seat empty, isn't infecting anyone who isn't taking the same level of risk I am. This was all about flattening a curve, not getting positives to zero.

I left this board months ago because I wasn't going to spend my day arguing online (over a sensitive subject) with people I like talking hockey with. I thought it may be time to come back, but I think its still too soon. You guys are good people, and I look forward to talking about the caps again one day. I don't want to ruin that by getting into political/social arguments. Stay safe, and lets keep praying the medical community can find some good solutions so Covid-19 is a thing of the past.

 

[g00n]

Goon unfortunately we aren't going to agree on this. I haven't seen one person cut off from stimulus or unemployment down here. If people want to stay home they are free to do so without punishment. So they have a choice to isolate themselves more, if they feel they need to. If you want to stay home, do so. I'm not forcing you to do anything. Me driving to work and sitting in my office, going out on my boat, or sitting at a restaurant with every other seat empty, isn't infecting anyone who isn't taking the same level of risk I am. This was all about flattening a curve, not getting positives to zero.

I left this board months ago because I wasn't going to spend my day arguing online (over a sensitive subject) with people I like talking hockey with. I thought it may be time to come back, but I think its still too soon. You guys are good people, and I look forward to talking about the caps again one day. I don't want to ruin that by getting into political/social arguments. Stay safe, and lets keep praying the medical community can find some good solutions so Covid-19 is a thing of the past.

You can say you haven't seen anyone cut off yet but there are already attempts. I haven't personally seen anyone shot to death but I'm not going to dismiss it as something that nobody does.

It doesn't matter if we agree. The conversation here is not going to change the reality within the numbers or someone's body.

Phased openings are about making sure the healthcare system isn't overloaded, not whether or not we can flaunt protective measures. There is a distinct, clear political bent that includes messages to the contrary and it comes from the top. That is dangerous, and that is killing people. It's also creating an environment that will at least partially support undermining the "you can just stay home" option you claim we all have, as I've said.

You can post or not post. We have not made this political. It's political because leadership has made it so.