Coronavirus and the Washington Capitals

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g00n

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Nov 22, 2007
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I’m purple. Let’s get out of the way.

but I’ve found most of mainstream media to be one sided. I won’t comment on which side. But it is, from where I sit. That’s all I will say.

and I fully respect and appreciate your comments. I get it. Logical on their merit.

Fair enough, but I will add that when one side's #1 weapon is a direct assault on facts then reporting on that will seem much more biased than it really is. And even when there is some favoritism in that reporting you still have to ask "is this because of the facts?". Sometimes calling someone a liar is just the truth, even if it seems partisan.
 

g00n

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Oh come on man, that’s not fair. How long did it take the Polio and SmallPox vaccines?

If you don’t think a year is “rushed” when it comes to vaccines, then you are not paying attention to history. I get “modern medicine” and blah blah blah, but for those of us over the age of 50, being pragmatic doesn’t deserve this type of negative vitriol. It just doesn’t. It’s not like we are screaming at people for rushing to vaccinate now. Go ahead. It’s ok by me. Free choice and all.

But why chastise those that are playing it safe on ALL fronts, and need more time? Why is that such a bad choice to make? It’s not — other than not fitting some narrative that people have about how this is all supposed to happen.

Did you read the links? I'm not the only one saying this. If you don't trust the CDC and Fauci then I don't know what to tell you. He addresses this. 2021 technology isn't the same as tech 100 years ago, or 50 years ago, or even 20 years ago.

I'm not sure what "negative vitriol" you're reading into what I said. It's 100% true that FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt) is how propaganda wars are waged and that's what antivaxxers do. I'm not saying you're antivax, I'm saying that's how they recruit.
 
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Ridley Simon

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Fair enough, but I will add that when one side's #1 weapon is a direct assault on facts then reporting on that will seem much more biased than it really is. And even when there is some favoritism in that reporting you still have to ask "is this because of the facts?". Sometimes calling someone a liar is just the truth, even if it seems partisan.
Sure. But you are seemingly lumping a lot of extra people into the “alternative facts” crowd. And that’s not necessary. Just because we aren’t ready to jump in w both feet to the COVID vaccine ideologue (and again, I’m going to get it as soon as I can), doesn’t mean we should be marginalized into the alternative facts crowd. Lies are lies. This isn’t about lies.

As is famously quoted, statistics should be used for illumination, not for support. And the statistics we have today are generally small sample size, short in tenure, and supportive of one theme. Maybe they will all be accurate. But then again, maybe not.

I hope they are accurate
 

Ajax1995

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Dec 9, 2002
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I’m just excited that in the future when we are wondering why a different vaccine is taking so long to get approved we’ll all know the answer is just for the f*** of it apparently...
 

Ridley Simon

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Did you read the links? I'm not the only one saying this. If you don't trust the CDC and Fauci then I don't know what to tell you. He addresses this. 2021 technology isn't the same as tech 100 years ago, or 50 years ago, or even 20 years ago.

I'm not sure what "negative vitriol" you're reading into what I said. It's 100% true that FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt) is how propaganda wars are waged and that's what antivaxxers do. I'm not saying you're antivax, I'm saying that's how they recruit.
You are using works like “recruiting”, and are very quick to seemingly chastise those that want to take a measured approach. I call that negative vitriol. I feel like you are recruiting people to all get a vaccine, come hell or high water.

take a breath.
 
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kicksavedave

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Generally true but there's no reason to believe the vaccine is unsafe for almost all adults. It was not "rushed through the approval process" in any way that didn't involve typical phased testing. If there's some missing critical step beyond 10-20 years of regular use I'd like to know what it is.

Fact or Fiction: Was the COVID-19 vaccine ‘rushed’ and the trials faked?

Speed of COVID vaccines did not compromise safety or scientific integrity, Fauci says | Live Science

The "concern" about "rushed approval" or "we don't know for sure this is safe" is all a part of the antivax playbook. That's where this shit starts, even if someone isn't antivax.

Well, it was definitely rushed*, but thats not the same as saying steps were skipped* or faked, which I never said nor do I believe. And again, the long term impacts have not been studied, thats undeniable. More specifically, the long term effectiveness and comparisons between the various options, and how they work on the new variants, is also data that is still being gathered. Again, there's a LONG berth between being anti vax, and wanting more data before deciding which of the three options is best for me and being satisfied that its right for my kid. I'm not spreading disinformation either, and I made no claim that it was unsafe for all adults, so lets keep the point/counter point to things actually being said.

* Even as your link says, long term impacts have not been tested yet, and are part of all vaccine programs, which includes rigorous tracking of adverse affects for the entire lifetime of a vaccines deployment. We only have short term data, so that step, while not "skipped", is in fact incomplete.
 

g00n

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Nov 22, 2007
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You are using works like “recruiting”, and are very quick to seemingly chastise those that want to take a measured approach. I call that negative vitriol. I feel like you are recruiting people to all get a vaccine, come hell or high water.

take a breath.

Ok, none of that was intended to attack or suggest anything or be "vitriolic". I'm just stating the facts about what other people do. If that doesn't relate to you that's fine. I suggest you also take a look at comments like "take a breath" and "on a ledge" if we're being prickly.
 

CapitalsCupReality

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Feb 27, 2002
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I have a question....when was the last time a major vaccine released to the public had any longterm unknown debilitating side effects that were later discovered (that wasn’t due to contaminated vaccines)?
 
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kicksavedave

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I have a question....when was the last time a major vaccine released to the public had any longterm unknown debilitating side effects that were later discovered (that wasn’t due to contaminated vaccines)?

Historical Safety Concerns | Vaccine Safety | CDC Its not a major risk, but it is something that is tracked.

Its not entirely about adverse effects. There's also some questions about efficacy, especially in terms of three different choices and the new variants.
 

CapitalsCupReality

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Somewhat effect is better than ineffective right? Honestly trying to follow the logic. Adverse side effects ok, somewhat compelling....you hope you’re not one of the unlucky......but hell, I’ll take 50% effective today and wait for a better version tomorrow.
 

kicksavedave

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Somewhat effect is better than ineffective right? Honestly trying to follow the logic. Adverse side effects ok, somewhat compelling....you hope you’re not one of the unlucky......but hell, I’ll take 50% effective today and wait for a better version tomorrow.

Well sure, but there are three options today, possibly more on the way. Some are two shots, some are one. I've stated several times, I'm looking for more information as to which one I want to get, while also allowing more long term data to be gathered. Not sure why you don't understand that but I don't really care if it meets your approval.

Stacking the vaccines on top of each other may very well have no benefit whatsoever, but hey, take all of them if you want... your choice... except that they are in high demand among potentially higher risk populations.
 

AussieCapsFan

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Apr 30, 2017
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It is true. Yes a lot of people have died, and it’s tragic, but there is a 95 to 97% survival rate and a lot of experts say COVID 19 is here for a while. That we will need a yearly shot like the flu. We will have to live with it because being locked down for the rest of our lives is not possible. I am not shrugging it off. I am being realistic.

I agree. We're already being told by virulogists and senior medical professionals that we will have to live with this, and it's not going to disappear, even when the majority of people have been vaccinated. It simply isn't realistic to think that we are going to conquer this and never see another life lost because of it.
 
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Ridley Simon

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I have a question....when was the last time a major vaccine released to the public had any longterm unknown debilitating side effects that were later discovered (that wasn’t due to contaminated vaccines)?
Polio. Had some bad stuff happen. I don’t remember specifics.

Which was probably the last true scare the country had before COVID.

edit — never mind, I see Dave showed some info. And Polio took EIGHT Years to get out. EIGHT. And still.
 

Ridley Simon

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
18,127
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Marin County — SF Bay Area, CA
Ok, none of that was intended to attack or suggest anything or be "vitriolic". I'm just stating the facts about what other people do. If that doesn't relate to you that's fine. I suggest you also take a look at comments like "take a breath" and "on a ledge" if we're being prickly.
I shouldn’t have said on a ledge.

but take a breath isn’t bad. At all.
 

g00n

Retired Global Mod
Nov 22, 2007
30,433
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Polio. Had some bad stuff happen. I don’t remember specifics.

Which was probably the last true scare the country had before COVID.

edit — never mind, I see Dave showed some info. And Polio took EIGHT Years to get out. EIGHT. And still.

I don't think polio fits the question, does it? There were initial failures in the first attempts at polio vaccine that were immediately evident, and some contamination problems that led to higher inspection standards. The question was:

"...when was the last time a major vaccine released to the public had any longterm unknown debilitating side effects that were later discovered (that wasn’t due to contaminated vaccines)?"

Never? If we count contamination of polio vaccines it's still 60 years ago and circumstances/technology are not the same anymore. But when has a modern, otherwise "safe" vaccine had some surprise long-term effect? Still seems like "never".
 
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CapitalsCupReality

It’s Go Time!!
Feb 27, 2002
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I did see one mention of a denge vaccine in 2017 that gave people the Fever....killed some. Not exactly major....but something. Polio is going back to the dark ages lol...
 
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