Proposal: Colorado and New Jersey (Devils' fan's perspective)

[Ararana]

Zadarov is hurt right now

Broke his jaw and had some dental work done. Shouldn't be out too long before he's back with the fish bowl. He probably won't be laying people out until his jaw if fully healed though.

Hall for Jost + Timmins + 2nd

Giving up Timmins is a tough pull to swallow, would much rather give up Zaodorov, but it would be hard for me not to pull the trigger on this one if Sakic can talk to Hall's agent ahead of time.

 

[chet1926]

Do Devils fans really expect elite prospects for a rental player?

Look at a player like Duchene as a rental last year. He got a B prospect, a C prospect, and two firsts, one of which was conditional on him re-signing, which he didn't do.

So realistically for a elite rental, sorry that's all Hall is at this point, you're probably looking at a deal like Jost OR Zadorov, Greer, and two firsts one of which is conditional on resigning Hall.

The thought of getting Makar, Byram or Newhook is pretty laughable. No team would give up top tier players/prospects for a rental.

 

[Blackjack]

The extra draft pick contingent on re-signing has always been odd to me. It de-incentivizes the team from signing the player. I'm surprised the NHLPA hasn't objected to it.

 

[JoemAvs]

The extra draft pick contingent on re-signing has always been odd to me. It de-incentivizes the team from signing the player. I'm surprised the NHLPA hasn't objected to it.

Yeah but how else do you balance the value?

20 games + playoffs vs 20 games + playoffs + 7 more years of service....

A bit of a discrepancy here valuewise...

Also it often takes time to build chemistry between linemates. Thats one major reason why these big time rentals at the deadline often do not work out as well as hoped.

Conditional 1sts make a ton of sense. Especially for a guy like Hall.
I don't think the NHLPA will be all too mad about teams letting more of their members hit UFA...

 

[D3vilsH0ck3y]

This offer is atrocious. If I’m Shero, the Hall situation doesn’t have to be that complicated Get the best defensive player/prospect you could get (prefer LHD). The counter offers in these Hall threads are not much better. I keep seeing Jost as a centerpiece and it makes no sense to me.

If Zadorov is the best player the Avs can offer then so be it, I believe we could do better.

 

[JT Kreider]

The extra draft pick contingent on re-signing has always been odd to me. It de-incentivizes the team from signing the player. I'm surprised the NHLPA hasn't objected to it.

It is a cheap trick for GMs to falsely inflate the return they are getting for a player who was a key part of their team so they can sell it as a no brainer win.

Gorton just did this with the Zuccarello trade. Rangers fans saw the two conditional 1st round picks and there is no way you can say that wasn't highway robbery for a player that was leaving anyway, even though it was a longshot for either condition to be met. Now months later nobody remembers we only got a mere 3rd round pick for Zucc, after the offseason the Rangers had that would be nitpicking of the highest degree.

 

[JoemAvs]

This offer is atrocious. If I’m Shero, the Hall situation doesn’t have to be that complicated Get the best defensive player/prospect you could get (prefer LHD). The counter offers in these Hall threads are not much better. I keep seeing Jost as a centerpiece and it makes no sense to me.

If Zadorov is the best player the Avs can offer then so be it, I believe we could do better.

Depends on what you are looking for. Not sure that teams will offer up better NHL roster Ds than Zads for an expiring Hall. Prying away young, quality NHL Ds from GMs is among the hardest things to do in this league. Avs have first hand knowledge in this due to the recent Duchene and ROR sagas.


But yeah. Realistically he is the best D the Avs will offer.
Prospect wise Byram will be obviously off-limits, Timmins probably wouldn't be valued as highly by the Devils as he is by the Avs and I am not sure Zhuraylov has established himself enough to get serious attention in a trade like this. And thats basically all the Avs have aside from their untouchables in Makar and G that could be of interest for the Devils..

If the Devils can do better than say Zads + 1st + Kaut for a Taylor Hall that has given the Avs the indication that he is open to a longterm extension (which would be key otherwise I would't offer close to as much for a pure rental) in the near future, they will hopefully be told to look elsewhere...

 

[Blackjack]

Yeah but how else do you balance the value?

20 games + playoffs vs 20 games + playoffs + 7 more years of service....

A bit of a discrepancy here valuewise...

Also it often takes time to build chemistry between linemates. Thats one major reason why these big time rentals at the deadline often do not work out as well as hoped.

Conditional 1sts make a ton of sense. Especially for a guy like Hall.
I don't think the NHLPA will be all too mad about teams letting more of their members hit UFA...

Performance or results based picks make a lot more sense to me. If the player plays in a certain number of playoff games or we win the conference or the cup, the 1st rounder doesn't sting nearly as much.

 

[D3vilsH0ck3y]

Depends on what you are looking for. Not sure that teams will offer up better NHL roster Ds than Zads for an expiring Hall. Praying away young, quality NHL Ds from GMs is among the hardest things to do in this league. Avs have first hand knowledge in this due to the recent Duchene and ROR sagas.


But yeah. Realistically he is the best D the Avs will offer.
Prospect wise Byram will be obviously off-limits, Timmins probably wouldn't be valued as highly by the Devils as he is by the Avs and I am not sure Zhuraylov has established himself enough to get serious attention in a trade like this. And thats basically all the Avs have aside from their untouchables in Makar and G that could be of interest for the Devils..

If the Devils can do better than say Zads + 1st + Kaut for a Taylor Hall that has given the Avs the indication that he is open to a longterm extension (which would be key otherwise I would't offer close to as much for a pure rental) in the near future, they will hopefully be told to look elsewhere...

Fair enough, this devils fan wouldn’t jump at that offer. I really think they can get a Brannstrom type prospect straight up for Hall if he extends with whatever team he gets dealt to.

He’s such a weird player, before the season I would have said do whatever you can to sign this guy. A little more than a month into the season and based on his attitude/play I prefer them not resign him at this point.

Tough spot for Shero but he gets paid the big bucks to get decisions like these right.

 

[Blackjack]

It is a cheap trick for GMs to falsely inflate the return they are getting for a player who was a key part of their team so they can sell it as a no brainer win.

Gorton just did this with the Zuccarello trade. Rangers fans saw the two conditional 1st round picks and there is no way you can say that wasn't highway robbery for a player that was leaving anyway, even though it was a longshot for either condition to be met. Now months later nobody remembers we only got a mere 3rd round pick for Zucc, after the offseason the Rangers had that would be nitpicking of the highest degree.

Zucc was coming off of injury, right? Don't think you could've gotten more than that considering. Still tough to trade away a team favorite, I guess I kind of understand.

 

[JoemAvs]

Fair enough, this devils fan wouldn’t jump at that offer. I really think they can get a Brannstrom type prospect straight up for Hall if he extends with whatever team he gets dealt to.

He’s such a weird player, before the season I would have said do whatever you can to sign this guy. A little more than a month into the season and based on his attitude/play I prefer them not resign him at this point.

Tough spot for Shero but he gets paid the big bucks to get decisions like these right.

Well we are all only guessing given that none of us is privy to real inside information. The reason why I don't really expect him to fetch a Brannstrom level prospect is exactly what you just said. He has just more major red flags when it comes to a longterm deal than Stone had and I can't think of a destination that he would want to go to that has the caproom to pay him what he wants and a Brannstrom level prospect they would be willing to give up for him.

I am honestly also not sure that Zads + 1st + Kaut is worse than Brannstrom + 2nd when it comes to overall value. Thats a 24 year old middle-pairing D with quite a bit of upside left that is a complete game changer when it comes to physicality (one of the reasons I don't really want to trade him even though I understand that he probably will be the odd-man out due to the expansion draft / Byram/Girard locking down our leftside in the future.), a 1st rounder + another recent 1st rounder (that admittedly has had a rough start to the season). But I understand why Devils fans and Shero would probably prefer quality over more quantity in that regard.

The question I would have is what team that reasonably has longterm interest (as well as the capspace) in signing Hall (only way he will fetch a prospect/young player like that. And that is assuming that Hall would be game for such a sign and trade deal which I personally very much doubt.) has the type of D prospect/young player available for trade?

Only one I could have thought of was Dallas with Harley but it has been made clear to me in another thread by Dallas fans that this would never ever happen and that they couldn't make it work salary wise anyways.

 

[JT Kreider]

Zucc was coming off of injury, right? Don't think you could've gotten more than that considering. Still tough to trade away a team favorite, I guess I kind of understand.

He was fine, he broke his hand in his 1st game in Dallas

 

[Cheddabombs]

this is wild, like so bad for the Avs lol

 

[Blackjack]

He was fine, he broke his hand in his 1st game in Dallas

Sorry, I looked at his games played and I remembered it wrong. Wow, that is weird that he didn't return more than that. NJ gave up Rykov and a 2nd for Grabner in '18, and I feel like Zuccarello is a much better player.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Hall would be agreeing to sign before all of this, so he's not a rental. No first regardless. Makars never getting moved, so he's not part of it. With those parameters it's an easier deal to be made

Every year we hear about how this UFA is different, he's gonna agree to an extension so his value is higher than a rental. It never seems to work out, there's no tangible difference in value between rentals that leave in UFA and guys who sign the day after getting traded.

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

Well we are all only guessing given that none of us is privy to real inside information. The reason why I don't really expect him to fetch a Brannstrom level prospect is exactly what you just said. He has just more major red flags when it comes to a longterm deal than Stone had and I can't think of a destination that he would want to go to that has the caproom to pay him what he wants and a Brannstrom level prospect they would be willing to give up for him.

I am honestly also not sure that Zads + 1st + Kaut is worse than Brannstrom + 2nd when it comes to overall value. Thats a 24 year old middle-pairing D with quite a bit of upside left that is a complete game changer when it comes to physicality (one of the reasons I don't really want to trade him even though I understand that he probably will be the odd-man out due to the expansion draft / Byram/Girard locking down our leftside in the future.), a 1st rounder + another recent 1st rounder (that admittedly has had a rough start to the season). But I understand why Devils fans and Shero would probably prefer quality over more quantity in that regard.

The question I would have is what team that reasonably has longterm interest (as well as the capspace) in signing Hall (only way he will fetch a prospect/young player like that. And that is assuming that Hall would be game for such a sign and trade deal which I personally very much doubt.) has the type of D prospect/young player available for trade?

Only one I could have thought of was Dallas with Harley but it has been made clear to me in another thread by Dallas fans that this would never ever happen and that they couldn't make it work salary wise anyways.

Good post. The Devils need to get the best package they can and than try and trade for a DMan using those assets and what they have. They do not have to get a DMan for Hall directly in a potential Hall trade.

 

[flyfysher]

Makar for Hischer and Hall maybe.

No, not even that.

 

[Unbiased Fan]

No, not even that.

Lol now that’s pushing it.

 

[JoemAvs]

Lol now that’s pushing it.

I mean he is not wrong.
Avs simply need Makar far more than they do Hischier + Hall..
Add salary concerns (would give the Avs 5 fowards they have to sign to huge contracts in the next few years) and it probably would be a quick no from Sakic.

 

[flyfysher]

Lol now that’s pushing it.

Yeah, value wise definitely. I agree with you. It's just that I don't see the Avs wanting to trade Makar because of what he brings to their D. Believe me, as an Avs fan that suffered long and hard because of the utter lack of D, Sakic won't be looking to trade Makar unless it's a can't refuse a trade situation because they're willing to give us this bucketload in return. Think someone like Hughes. Is that something you're really willing to give up?

 

[TGWL]

IMO if the Devils signed Hall for 6-7 years for $10M/yr then retained like 35% in a trade that could fetch a Byram like prospect. That's a good rate for an elite winger.

Devils aren't competing any time soon so they don't need the capspace.

The hell did I just read?

Devils are trading Hall @ 65% his cap hit for 7 years?

 

[voxel]

The hell did I just read?

Devils are trading Hall @ 65% his cap hit for 7 years?

For Bryam, yes. Unsigned... he gets 1st + B prospect. Signed without retention he gets a mid-first type of prospect (i.e Wahlstrom, Ty Smith) and spare bodies. Signed with retention you get Bryam/Dach type of prospect.

 

[TGWL]

Sorry, I looked at his games played and I remembered it wrong. Wow, that is weird that he didn't return more than that. NJ gave up Rykov and a 2nd for Grabner in '18, and I feel like Zuccarello is a much better player.

Zucc had a groin injury for us that year. He was fine when we traded him. Looking back, Dallas was 1 goal away from having to pay up a 1st round pick, and I still think they should have taken a chance on the chemistry Zucc immediately had with the team, but I also hate the extra condition on if a player signs. Without that condition, I really think Zucc stays in Dallas.

 

[TGWL]

For Bryam, yes. Unsigned... he gets 1st + B prospect. Signed without retention he gets a mid-first type of prospect (i.e Wahlstrom, Ty Smith) and spare bodies. Signed with retention you get Bryam/Dach type of prospect.

So you think NJD will sign Hall, give him whatever NTC he's going to want for years 3-7, or whatever, and then eat 35% of his contract to trade him in agreement to the Avs?

 

[flyfysher]

I mean he is not wrong.
Avs simply need Makar far more than they do Hischier + Hall..
Add salary concerns (would give the Avs 5 guys they have to sign to huge contracts in the next few years) and it probably would be a quick no from Sakic.

Exactly. It's not just player value relative to each other. I've a much better appreciation for having to manage talent relative to the cap and entry draft concerns. Few teams are as well positioned to deal with all of these issues as the Avs. Thanks Joe Sakic! I can see them making a run at Hall with an agreement to a long-term extension. So Zadorov, Jost and a conditional first.