Player Discussion Colin White signed for 6 years x $4.75M

[GWNR]

I don't see White and Turris as similar players at all.

I think this is the perfect deal for White. I'd be absolutely shocked if he doesn't live up to the value given he had 41 in 71 last year.

Only up from here IMO. I think 25G, 35A while playing defensively responsible would be fantastic.

If Logan Brown figures it out and we get a top pick and land Byfield it could slide White into being a really good 3C.

 

[bert]

Possible - maybe I have him confused with another player ? Please ... you are really high
On him... just accept I like him but a lot less than you do. Maybe I’m wrong. I’m ok with that (and hope you are correct) with your evaluation.

I think you do have him confused with another player yes.

 

[Micklebot]

And he still led the team in goals dispite that slump. That just shows how bad that Sens roster was that season with the injuries. So saying he played on a “far deeper team” is a bit of a stretch.

He slumped before the roster was bad. The only injury for the first half of that slump was Spezza, a big loss to be sure, but if you can go down the respective rosters and still come away with Turris not having significantly more support I don't know what to tell you. There is a reason we finished bottom of the league two years running

 

[Viletho]

White lead the wjc in goal scoring, he lead the under 18 in goal scoring including the golden goal. He had 14 goals and 41 points in 71 games in his first NHL season and finished 5th in rookie scoring. But youre comparing him to Zack Smith and Brian Gibbons. You are way off.

I think people are not aware or simply don't remember just how good White was at these WJC and U18 tournament.
Hell, even in BC, he was a almost a one man show.

White went Goal per game at his 2nd WJC. He scored the GTG with a couple of minute to go against Canada. I remember him and Chabot going at it against each other because White was so chippy.

White has been a point Producer everywhere he went while being a solid defensive player.

 

[Viletho]

I don't see White and Turris as similar players at all.

I think this is the perfect deal for White. I'd be absolutely shocked if he doesn't live up to the value given he had 41 in 71 last year.

Only up from here IMO. I think 25G, 35A while playing defensively responsible would be fantastic.

If Logan Brown figures it out and we get a top pick and land Byfield it could slide White into being a really good 3C.

White and Turris are not similar player in term of playstyle.

But the overall impact they project him to have on this team is similar. 2nd line player, playing 1stPK, maybe 2nd, etc.

 

[JungleBeat]

He slumped before the roster was bad. The only injury for the first half of that slump was Spezza, a big loss to be sure, but if you can go down the respective rosters and still come away with Turris not having significantly more support I don't know what to tell you. There is a reason we finished bottom of the league two years running

I’m not sure you’ve looked at both rosters and their respective linemates. Now tell me, would you rather be playing with a rookie Silfverberg or rookie Tkachuk? Would you rather have Stone who’s in his prime or an aged Alfredsson? The only thing hat kept that 2013 Sens team from the bottom of the standings was all three goalies in nets.

 

[bert]

I think people are not aware or simply don't remember just how good White was at these WJC and U18 tournament.
Hell, even in BC, he was a almost a one man show.

White went Goal per game at his 2nd WJC. He scored the GTG with a couple of minute to go against Canada. I remember him and Chabot going at it against each other because White was so chippy.

White has been a point Producer everywhere he went while being a solid defensive player.

Bingo.

 

[Qward]

He was also up near the top for rookie scoring for most of the year. Pettersson was ahead by a lot, but then it was White and Tkachuk.

 

[Sweatred]

I dont think you are familiar with who Colin White is.

Ill give you a little refresher. He is a way better prospect than Balcers, Norris or Formenton.

White has 15 more points in his first NHL season than Gibbons career high of 26 at 27 years old.

What makes you think he will only get worse..... In his rookie year he scored at a 16 goal pace.

White lead the wjc in goal scoring, he lead the under 18 in goal scoring including the golden goal. He had 14 goals and 41 points in 71 games in his first NHL season and finished 5th in rookie scoring. But youre comparing him to Zack Smith and Brian Gibbons. You are way off.

Again, just accept that I don’t like him as much as you do.

His 18-19 season was decent but not far off from being replacement level. If I had a choice of Gibbons/Brown/scrap heap player for $800000 or 13G/40 pts from White I would need to consider what else I could do with the $3.2 in savings. $3.2 saved on 2-3 players converts 2-3 $5 million players into 2-3 $8mill players.

The answer to me may be to keep White, but that would depend on salary constraints etc. I hope White makes it obvious , develops and grows, and makes it a easy decision.

 

[Masked]

Teams are foolish to pay every 13G scorer $4 million. Just because there are a bunch that make $4 million doesn’t mean we need to give every player who break 10goals $4 mill.

I like White and I am glad we signed him. I’m just nervous we get suffocated by too many bloated contracts for near replacement players. Gibbons would prob score 8-13 goals for us at $800K. Tiereny has similar stats and I don’t want him given $4-5 either. I think this budget team needs to control low-mid range player costs to allow them to keep their higher skilled players. I hope they have their eval right on him.

What a garbage take. It's usually a pretty telling sign about how knowledgeable someone is when they can't even spell the names of the players they are talking about. White, Tierney (not Tiereny) and Gibbons do not provide the same things regardless of their goal totals.

Low-mid range rookies do not go play for the US at the World Championships, Highly skilled rookies do. White is a player who will produce on one of the top 2 lines for the next 6 years and, in all likelihood, improve in that time.

 

[bert]

I’m not sure you’ve looked at both rosters and their respective linemates. Now tell me, would you rather be playing with a rookie Silfverberg or rookie Tkachuk? Would you rather have Stone who’s in his prime or an aged Alfredsson?

Veteran team with structure and toughness when that was more important compared to the least experienced team that was a tire fire from top to bottom where everyone knew all tbe stars were leaving and no stability. Polar opposite situations so its hard to compare. Last years sens before the mass exudus may have had more skill but thats it. I thought the young players handled the tumultuous season very well last year given the circumstances.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

White made some pretty great strides last year from start to finish. When he was out of the lineup he was missed. Saying Mark Stone helped him is not some strike against White. Mark Stone helps everyone he plays with. No doubt White scores more points with Stone than he does with Pyatt and Paajarvi... Same goes for Tkachuk or any other player on the team or in the game. Not every player shows the growth White showed last year. Not every player can play , succeed and compliment better players that he's playing with. White has excellent IQ .. He figures things out. He figures out how he can help his line and does that. He is a battler. We need guys like that. He is only going to get better and take bigger more important roles on this team as he does.

 

[bert]

Again, just accept that I don’t like him as much as you do.

His 18-19 season was decent but not far off from being replacement level. If I had a choice of Gibbons/Brown/scrap heap player for $800000 or 13G/40 pts from White I would need to consider what else I could do with the $3.2 in savings. $3.2 saved on 2-3 players converts 2-3 $5 million players into 2-3 $8mill players.

The answer to me may be to keep White, but that would depend on salary constraints etc. I hope White makes it obvious , develops and grows, and makes it a easy decision.

Its not about me liking him more. Its about the context of the players we are discussing and you are comparing him to. You simply cant identify the difference between an NHL tweener and a player with high end pedigree. Top 5 rookie scorers arent replacement players. Especially ones with his track record draft position and production.

 

[SAK11]

Good for the team. Very little risk of White under-performing that deal.

But I am surprised that White would sign for six years at that rate. Kid isn't "betting on himself" at all here. Makes the skeptical side of me wonder if White knows something about his injury history/potential that we don't.

On TSN Dave Poulin mentioned that when he was playing, he was someone that really wanted long term security. He said that could be the same for White; some guys want every last penny while others find comfort in that long term deal.

 

[Sweatred]

Its not about me liking him more. Its about the context of the players we are discussing and you are comparing him to. You simply cant identify the difference between an NHL tweener and a player with high end pedigree. Top 5 rookie scorers arent replacement players. Especially ones with his track record draft position and production.

Incorrect - I don’t agree with your analysis of this player to have what I consider to be “high end pedigree”.

That’s not a big deal and you (and others) don’t need to lay on the personal insults for an opinion or typo. This board was full off people who doubted BT’s skill level 10 months ago. It is ok to disagree on a player eval. I would caution against thinking everyone who disagrees with you is an idiot.

I hope he has a great year.

 

[Micklebot]

I’m not glorifying anything, relax. But saying that Turris had more support is just wrong. White played with Stone and Brady for the majority of the season who are better than Kyle’s linemates that season.

I think White has the *potential* to be better than Turris but, trying to rewrite history to fit your narrative is a poor way to prove your point.

During the first half of that slump, turris had:
Alfredsson, Michalek, Zibanejad, Karlsson, Gonchar, Silverberg Methot, all of which were playing very well. Heck Karlsson alone was playing absolutely dominant hockey and being hailed as contending for best player in the league despite the pts not coming.

Turris rebounded after that slump and good on him but the point i made and that you are doing your best to deflect from was that he had a very uneven season and was highly criticized during that extended slump. That's fact, he slumped hard and was criticized. Yes there were mitigating factors just like there is for White, but white never slumped quite so bad.

 

[operasen]

Good signing & a very reasonable contract considering White has the potential playing with Tkachuk to be a substantial player on this team.

Have the feeling that this could develop into a go to combination for Smith.

Interesting to see who would be the RW here. Batherson could be it, even as a rookie and I see him making the club, even though I hope as many of the young guys get more Belleville time to learn how to win as a team. Batherson does have chemistry with Brown (when he arrives) as well, and Brown needs a sniper as much as Batherson needs a setup guy. White can be that guy as well.

A Tkachuk - White - Batherson line would be great to watch develop this year into something special. Leaves Anisimov/Tierney/Pageau as the 2, 3, 4C in some order for now.

 

[JungleBeat]

During the first half of that slump, turris had:
Alfredsson, Michalek, Zibanejad, Karlsson, Gonchar, Silverberg Methot, all of which were playing very well. Heck Karlsson alone was playing absolutely dominant hockey and being hailed as contending for best player in the league despite the pts not coming.

Turris rebounded after that slump and good on him but the point i made and that you are doing your best to deflect from was that he had a very uneven season and was highly criticized during that extended slump. That's fact, he slumped hard and was criticized. Yes there were mitigating factors just like there is for White, but white never slumped quite so bad.

Ok, he had an ‘uneven’ season. But, Answer the question and try not to deflect from it. Who had the better linemates - White or Turris?

BTW, Silfverberg had 3 points during that first half of the slump. Not sure why you classify that as playing well.

 

[SAK11]

Turris basically had no support in 2013 when the team was fighting injuries with EK,Spezza, and Michalek. He led the team in goals and points. I don’t remember any criticism in 13’.

I agree with you on this. While that 2013 team was obviously better than the current team, they were not better from a scoring perspective. They were 4th worst in the league in goals scored, just 5 goals ahead of the worst team in the league. They were trying to win 2-1 games once their top players got hurt. They scored 2.4 goals per game while last year’s team scored around 3.

Turris scored 11 points in his first 13 games that year before Karlsson got hurt. After that, it was all about playing that pesky style to try to win games. Turris had very little support offensively. To put it in perspective, he was involved in 25% of Ottawa’s goals that year. Last year, White was involved in 16.9% of Ottawa’s goals (they were middle of the pack in goals scored). Even if you project White’s stats over 82 games, he would’ve been involved in less than 20% of Ottawa’s goals.

Turris was certainly streaky early on with Ottawa but that comes with being a young player and not having a ton of offensive support that year. Obviously his progression in the years that followed made his contract an absolute steal. I don’t think White will be as good offensively as prime Turris, but I still like the contract and think he has room to progress.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

On TSN Dave Poulin mentioned that when he was playing, he was someone that really wanted long term security. He said that could be the same for White; some guys want every last penny while others find comfort in that long term deal.

I hope so.

It's hard to get excited when this team is the embodiment of Murphy's Law over the last few seasons. Would be nice to start seeing things go right for a change.

 

[Micklebot]

Ok, he had an ‘uneven’ season. But, Answer the question and try not to deflect from it. Who had the better linemates - White or Turris?

BTW, Silfverberg had 3 points during that slump. Not sure why you classify that as playing well.

Depends on when. If your comparent both rosters heathy, Turris. Post deadline to injured sens, again Turris. When just Spezza was down it was closer but Karlsson in god mode tips the scales imo. You seem to want to compare injured Sens for Turris to pre deadline trades for White.

 

[JungleBeat]

Depends on when. If your comparent both rosters heathy, Turris. Post deadline to injured sens, again Turris. When just Spezza was down it was closer but Karlsson in god mode tips the scales imo. You seem to want to compare injured Sens for Turris to pre deadline trades for White.

Lol, why would we compare a healthy roster of five games when we have a much larger sample size that can be used.

White’s most common linemates were Tkachuk, Stone and Chabot

Turris’ most common linemates were Silfverberg, Alfredsson and Methot

Which trio are you taking?

Kyle Turris - Teammates - On Ice - Natural Stat Trick

Sorry Micklebot, but this should be clear.

 

[c_mak]

This is a great signing.
White is comparable to Turris but I like Whites game more. Really for intangible reasons that I can neither prove nor be disproved. I liked Turris' game, and I think he got a raw deal form the Sens. He played hurt with a high ankle sprain most of a year and was waaay better defensively than people remember, Still, I think White is faster and stronger and more clutch not alot of Corsi to go with those statements
The knock against White was that he was injury prone. Which was a concern as he made the big club and injured his wrist very quickly. I hope this is done.
What I am most excited about is this is an actual signing that gives me hope that the "rebuild" may not be a constant cycle of selling to recoup cheaper talent. That may be naive

 

[Sweatred]

Turris was a 1B / 2A Center in the league. Even the most aggressive views on White have him as a 2B/3A Center or 1b/2A winger.

Slide a 22 year old Turris in our current top list of players under 25 and I think he’s going to be closer to Chabot, EB, and BT than White, Norris, LT.

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

White is more like Bo Horvat