Player Discussion Colin White signed for 6 years x $4.75M

[Hale The Villain]

Good signing
Let’s not forget 41p in 71g with the Sens is easily 55p with Tampa , Calgary or TO

It absolutely is not.

41P/71GP playing beside Stone for most of the year is not 55P buried in the lineup of a stacked offense.

 

[Hale The Villain]

This is such a stupid argument. Turris was drafted in a weak draft while White, who saw his stock drop due to injuries and mono, was drafted in what is looking like one of the best drafts ever.

Would you claim Turris has more raw talent than guys like Barzal or Aho because he was drafted 3rd overall for a reason and they weren't?

2015 being a better draft than 2007 doesn't mean a 17YR old Turris goes outside of the top 20 in 2015. Nor does it mean White gets drafted 3rd OVR if he were eligible in 2007.

Turris was a far far better prospect at 17 than White, and yes, has far more raw talent.

 

[JungleBeat]

Kyle Turris ~ BCHL Legend

 

[Samsquanch]

2015 being a better draft than 2007 doesn't mean a 17YR old Turris goes outside of the top 20 in 2015. Nor does it mean White gets drafted 3rd OVR if he were eligible in 2007.

Turris was a far far better prospect at 17 than White, and yes, has far more raw talent.

He was a better prospect pre draft because he got super hyped while playing against weaker players in the BCHL. True. But in retrospect, he really wasnt, and his value quickly plummeted. And there were many doubts about his strength (or lack thereof) and ability to battle that have dogged him his entire career.

He didnt light the world on fire in the NCAA, and White made more of an impact there. They had equally good WJC performances. Turris was probably rushed to the NHL ahead of schedule, and he took an extra year and a trade before he had have a season like White just did.

And dont forget that a certain #11 was stapled to his hip in the early days, so lets not pretend like he was ever a 1 man show out there either. And did he truly ever answer the question about his ability to battle and not get manhandled in the NHL?
.

 

[JungleBeat]

I for one remember the criticism Turris was receiving back in 2011-12 and 2012-13. I'm not going to re-write history and pretend there weren't any bumps in the road after signing him.

Turris basically had no support in 2013 when the team was fighting injuries with EK,Spezza, and Michalek. He led the team in goals and points. I don’t remember any criticism in 13’.

 

[aragorn]

Good signing & a very reasonable contract considering White has the potential playing with Tkachuk to be a substantial player on this team.

 

[Mark Stones Spleen]

Ya - Just my opinion but I thought Turris was wayyyyyy better than White.

Just because some 13G scorers are getting $4 million doesn’t mean we need to give them all that. Boedker at $3million may be going rate for a third liner but he can also be replaced at $1 million and the money used elsewhere. Hey - I hope ass much as anyone that White’s value follows Turris’.

Turris had a team friendly cap in the middle of his contract and was an outright steal towards the end.

White doesn't have to ever become as good as Turris to make this deal good for the team. If he doesn't improve at all, it's still going to be close to a fair deal.

 

[Tuna99]

Realistically I see White as a good foot soldier. An Antoine type - good skilled forward who plays a coaches game but is a bit light.

Good signing, don’t see him as a Top 2 Center, top 6 he could maybe play the wing. More of an elite 3rd line center or a serviceable 2nd line RW, he just helps the top 9 depth and it’s good he’s versatile

 

[bert]

He was a better prospect pre draft because he got super hyped while playing against weaker players in the BCHL. True. But in retrospect, he really wasnt, and his value quickly plummeted. And there were many doubts about his strength (or lack thereof) and ability to battle that have dogged him his entire career.

He didnt light the world on fire in the NCAA, and White made more of an impact there. They had equally good WJC performances. Turris was probably rushed to the NHL ahead of schedule, and he took an extra year and a trade before he had have a season like White just did.

And dont forget that a certain #11 was stapled to his hip in the early days, so lets not pretend like he was ever a 1 man show out there either. And did he truly ever answer the question about his ability to battle and not get manhandled in the NHL?
.

Good post.

White is going to continue to improve and has a real edge to his game. Way harder to play against than Turris he is faster and stonger. I dont think he is as skilled as Turris but i do think he will have a similar impact. He is already tracking to be a much better 2 way player. He is more versatile and better down low and in front of the net.

 

[bert]

You just have to hope it wasn't mostly Mark Stone that got him this big of a contract.

Well it isnt, his career at all levels and his pedigree that got him the contract not the 40 games he played with Stone. He comes from what might be argued as the best draft ever where he was going to be a top 10 pick until he got hurt. He has shown elite skating and scoring abilities he just needs to get more consistent. He is highly competitve and shown the ability to score in clutch situations his entire career.

 

[bert]

Turris basically had no support in 2013 when the team was fighting injuries with EK,Spezza, and Michalek. He led the team in goals and points. I don’t remember any criticism in 13’.

28 points in 44 games... nothing to write home about. He was good but lets not make it sound like he lit the world on fire.

 

[bert]

This line of thinking makes no sense whatsoever.

A 40 point player is essentially a 4+ million dollar paid NHLer at this point in time, and will only go up. This isn't 2010 anymore, 4-7 million is the going rate for 2nd line players, and Whites contract places him on the low end. White is 22, will improve, and is already a 5 million dollar NHLer, even if he just replicates his 0.58ppg he got in his rookie season. Then take into account he isn't just a scorer, and it's easy to see.

Turris contract was assuredly used as a benchmark by both the Sens and White's camp.

White's 4.75 x 6 and Turris's 3.5 x 6 come out to be the exact same % of total team cap, down to the 2nd decimal point, at 5.83%. This isn't a coincidence, and is a going rate for a low level 2nd, high level 3rd line center. They are the exact same deal, prorated by cap hit.

Thank you from saving me the trouble of having to make this post.

 

[Masked]

2015 being a better draft than 2007 doesn't mean a 17YR old Turris goes outside of the top 20 in 2015. Nor does it mean White gets drafted 3rd OVR if he were eligible in 2007.

I did not say that. But Turris would not have gone third overall in 2015 and White would have gone higher in 2007.

Turris was a far far better prospect at 17 than White, and yes, has far more raw talent.

But a year after they were drafted, White may have been the better prospect. Do you believe that Turris has far more raw talent than Aho and Barzal?

 

[Micklebot]

Turris basically had no support in 2013 when the team was fighting injuries with EK,Spezza, and Michalek. He led the team in goals and points. I don’t remember any criticism in 13’.

He went 21 straight games without a goal, much of which was before Michalek or Karlsson were hurt. If you don't remember any criticism, that's on you not me. It was a big talking point on these forums.

 

[JungleBeat]

He went 21 straight games without a goal, much of which was before Michalek or Karlsson were hurt. If you don't remember any criticism, that's on you not me. It was a big talking point on these forums.

And he still led the team in goals dispite that slump. That just shows how bad that Sens roster was that season with the injuries. So saying he played on a “far deeper team” is a bit of a stretch.

 

[bert]

And he still led the team in goals dispite that slump. That just shows how bad that Sens roster was that season with the injuries. So saying he played on a “far deeper team” is a bit of a stretch.

He scored at a 55 point pace man stop glorifying it. That team with the injuries is much better than this current team.

 

[JungleBeat]

He scored at a 55 point pace man stop glorifying it. That team with the injuries is much better than this current team.

I’m not glorifying anything, relax. But saying that Turris had more support is just wrong. White played with Stone and Brady for the majority of the season who are better than Kyle’s linemates that season.

I think White has the *potential* to be better than Turris but, trying to rewrite history to fit your narrative is a poor way to prove your point.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

White and Turris are completely different players. Comparing them is silly.

 

[Sweatred]

Thank you from saving me the trouble of having to make this post.

Teams are foolish to pay every 13G scorer $4 million. Just because there are a bunch that make $4 million doesn’t mean we need to give every player who break 10goals $4 mill.

I like White and I am glad we signed him. I’m just nervous we get suffocated by too many bloated contracts for near replacement players. Gibbons would prob score 8-13 goals for us at $800K. Tiereny has similar stats and I don’t want him given $4-5 either. I think this budget team needs to control low-mid range player costs to allow them to keep their higher skilled players. I hope they have their eval right on him.

At $4 million on this roster I would like to see White at least get into 20G/45+ He will get a tonne of PP time. I’m not sure he can.

 

[bert]

Teams are foolish to pay every 13G scorer $4 million. Just because there are a bunch that make $4 million doesn’t mean we need to give every player who break 10goals $4 mill.

I like White and I am glad we signed him. I’m just nervous we get suffocated by too many bloated contracts for near replacement players. Gibbons would prob score 8-13 goals for us at $800K. Tiereny has similar stats and I don’t want him given $4-5 either.

At $4 million on this roster I would like to see White at least get into 20G/45+ He will get a tonne of PP time. I’m not sure he can.

White isnt a replacement player... He is a 21 year old first round pick with high end pedigree who just completed his first full NHL season. As a sens fan how do you follow this team and dont know that?... How do you not understand the difference?....

The issue here is you didnt understand his post because you dont understand the context of the signings and why it happened. He explained it very well I guess you just didnt follow. They are buying later years of his contract because of his pedigree and where he projects to be later on. Comparing him to Gibbons is an equally as terrible comparison to zack smith. You clearly cant identify with what people are trying to explain to you.

 

[Sweatred]

White isnt a replacement player... How do you not understand the difference?....
See the issue here is you didnt understand his post because you dont understand the context of the signings and why it happened. He explained it very well I guess you just didnt follow. They are buying later years of his contract because of his pedigree and where he projects to be later on. Comparing him to Gibbons is an equally as terrible comparison to zack smith. You clearly cant identify with what people are trying to explain to you.

Careful - Let’s not confuse “can’t identify” with “don’t agree”. I’m just not that high on White. This isn’t a pure Science, even for the pros. I am way more aggressive on Brown than most. It’s just my opinion, you don’t need to be offended or insulted by it. I see people reference “elite scoring pedigree” etc and I just don’t agree or believe that.

PD (pro scout) probably likes White more than I do and I am OK with that.

 

[bert]

Careful - Let’s not confuse “can’t identify” with “don’t agree”. I’m just not that high on White. This isn’t a pure Science, even for the pros. I am way more aggressive on Brown than most. It’s just my opinion, you don’t need to be offended or insulted by it. I see people reference “elite scoring pedigree” etc and I just don’t agree or believe that.

PD (pro scout) probably likes White more than I do and I am OK with that.

No you cant identify you keep comparing him to Gibbons and Smith. You really cant tell the difference....

White has 15 more points in his first NHL season than Gibbons career high of 26 at 27 years old.

White lead the wjc in goal scoring, he lead the under 18 in goal scoring including the golden goal. He had 14 goals and 41 points in 71 games in his first NHL season and finished 5th in rookie scoring. But youre comparing him to Zack Smith and Brian Gibbons. You are way off.

 

[Sweatred]

No you cant identify you keep comparing him to Gibbons and Smith. You really cant tell the difference....

Careful - if you are talking about comprehension you are not comprehending what I am saying.

If.. I said IF ... young players like White are going to cap out in 10- 15G range (perhaps Norris, Balcers, Formenton types) I think the Sens can find an efficiency by moving them along instead of paying them all $4 million. I would take any of them over Gibbons but I don’t want to lose Chabot,EB, BT,AL etc because we are weighted down with a $12 million 3rd-4th line. We have an internal budget and need to keep money for the top tier players. I’m assuming PD thinks White can develop and improve to become a player worth keeping.

 

[bert]

Careful - if you are talking about comprehension you are not comprehending what I am saying.

If.. I said IF ... young players like White are going to cap out in 10- 15G range (perhaps Norris, Balcers, Formenton types) I think the Sens can find an efficiency by moving them along instead of paying them all $4 million. I would take any of them over Gibbons but I don’t want to lose Chabot,EB, BT,AL etc because we are weighted down with a $12 million 3rd-4th line. We have an internal budget and need to keep money for the top tier players. I’m assuming PD thinks White can develop and improve to become a player worth keeping.

I dont think you are familiar with who Colin White is.

Ill give you a little refresher. He is a way better prospect than Balcers, Norris or Formenton.

White has 15 more points in his first NHL season than Gibbons career high of 26 at 27 years old.

What makes you think he will only get worse..... In his rookie year he scored at a 16 goal pace.

White lead the wjc in goal scoring, he lead the under 18 in goal scoring including the golden goal. He had 14 goals and 41 points in 71 games in his first NHL season and finished 5th in rookie scoring. But youre comparing him to Zack Smith and Brian Gibbons. You are way off.

 

[Sweatred]

I dont think you are familiar with who Colin White is.

Possible - maybe I have him confused with another player ? Please ... you are really high
On him... just accept I like him but a lot less than you do. Maybe I’m wrong. I’m ok with that (and hope you are correct) with your evaluation.