Post-Game Talk: Cole's Plus/Minus: Zucker firing candy hearts at the Habs

[EightyOne]

I'm not a "role" guy. I'm a "get good players that coalesce into a certain style" guy.

Riikola is arguably a better player than JJ now and I'd bet my bottom dollar that he'll be much better over the next 3 years.

I don't think highly of JJ, but damn....Is Riikola better now? I am not as certain as you.

Better over next three years? Probably? I mean, Roman Polak still has a career somehow...JJ and/or Riikola have to be better than him?

 

[ChaosAgent]

I don't think highly of JJ, but damn....Is Riikola better now? I am not as certain as you.

Better over next three years? Probably? I mean, Roman Polak still has a career somehow...JJ and/or Riikola have to be better than him?

Well, in the spirit of hedging...I did say "arguably better now." So not actually certain.

I tolerated JJ earlier this year but watching him play on the 1st D pairing has been infuriating. JJ-Letang is the single biggest reason why the team isn't passing the eye test now like they were earlier this season. I echo that Jesse analysis that JJ will always revert to his comfort zone - parking himself in front of the net - which puts an undue burden on Letang in the DZone with and without the puck.

I get that JJ is playing far more minutes than intended because of injury but this recent stretch has reminded me of why I dislike his game so very much. I really hope we can move him this offseason. If Dumo's body wasn't becoming such a big question mark I wouldn't mind pulling the trigger right now if we could just dump him for nothing.

 

[HandshakeLine]

The coaching staff aren’t allowed to have favorites but the Internet posters are.

Seems....I don’t know...hypocritical.

Given the well known power of HFBoards in choosing the lineups, I totally agree.

 

[HandshakeLine]

And by agree, I mean of course I don't agree.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Like I said - i completely see the same thing. Especially with Pets. But those were Sully's words and it really caught me off guard. And that's not bad mouthing Sully as I feel he deserves coach of the year. JR deserves GM of the year. Those 2 are amazing. But like everyone else, I feel Riiko should get more chances as #6 than others.

We can both love Sullivan as a coach without blindly agreeing with everything he says.

He literally said the other day ZAR scored at other levels so it will happen for him in the NHL... uh....sure.

Even Scotty Bowman wasn’t infallible.

JJ and Petts are the two worst puckhandlers on the blue line and I honestly don’t know which of the two I’d rank last.

 

[Son Goku]

We can both love Sullivan as a coach without blindly agreeing with everything he says.

He literally said the other day ZAR scored at other levels so it will happen for him in the NHL... uh....sure.

Even Scotty Bowman wasn’t infallible.

JJ and Petts are the two worst puckhandlers on the blue line and I honestly don’t know which of the two I’d rank last.

Petts is jittery man.

 

[JTG]

Simon had an outstanding game.

Jarry hot streak continues.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Petts is jittery man.

He has a pretty low panic threshold for sure.

He just trained at the Sheary and McCann Hockey School for Spazzes.

 

[ChaosAgent]

He just trained at the Sheary and McCann Hockey School for Spazzes.

It'd be nice if he trained at a gym, for a change.

I want to clarify: I'm not a huge size guy. I don't want or need the team to be hulking. But after seeing Geno take his game up another level in 2011 from basically making Newb Gainz in the gym...I have no patience for 6'3 and 177 at Petts' age. Murray I can excuse somewhat because goalies are weird but Petts should be closer to 190.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

It'd be nice if he trained at a gym, for a change.

I’m sure he does, he’s probably like an old buddy of mine who had a crazy metabolism when we were younger.

My buddy would eat like 5000 calories a day and was a rake.

Didn’t matter how much time he spent in the gym either.

Used to really frustrate the hell out of him, but now he’s not so young anymore he can really pack on the pounds... except now he doesn’t want to.

 

[JackFr]

Riikola is absolutely better than Jack Johnson right now. The shine has fallen completely off JJ from his time with Marino early in the season. He's killing Letang right now.

 

[Ugene Magic]

The Price is wrong.... *****!

 

[ChaosAgent]

I’m sure he does, he’s probably like an old buddy of mine who had a crazy metabolism when we were younger.

My buddy would eat like 5000 calories a day and was a rake.

Didn’t matter how much time he spent in the gym either.

Used to really frustrate the hell out of him, but now he’s not so young anymore he can really pack on the pounds... except now he doesn’t want to.

Eh, I'm not so sure of that. Petts could be a cardio-first type guy.

I edited my post afterwards to clarify, but see also: Evgeni Malkin. He basically bulked during that knee surgery rehab in 2011, put on 10-15 pounds (mostly muscle, some fat) and came back a far more physically imposing player. Despite not actually being a big guy.

 

[exHornet]

As someone's who's been around Malkin enough to know (don't ask), Malkin's actually got a pretty big frame. No surprise that he could bulk up once he decided to do so. Petts might not have the same big bone structure that Geno has.

 

[EightyOne]

Petts also suffers from chronic lankiness.

Dude just has zero pop to his movements.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Emp... on one hand you can't say "beaten a dead horse on why Riiko isn't going in over JJ" and then having ZAR/Rental in the same post. ZAR ain't coming out.

That's not what I meant at all. I meant that I've beaten the dead horse for why you can't just put Riikola in JJ's spot and expect Riikola to do well. It doesn't have to do with what the team is going to do, it has to do with Riikola being ill-suited to step into JJ's spot.

Replace Schultz with Riikola? I'm all for that. I'm also all for Riikola replacing Schultz, trading JJ and bringing in another PKing RHD to play with Riikola on the bottom pair. That's actually my preferred route. But just subbing Riikola in for JJ? That's just a bad call, Riikola can't do what JJ does just because he's a completely different kind of player.

I'm not a "role" guy. I'm a "get good players that coalesce into a certain style" guy.

Riikola is arguably a better player than JJ now and I'd bet my bottom dollar that he'll be much better over the next 3 years.

But you need someone to replace JJ's minutes. Riikola isn't that. Riikola is a logical replacement for Schultz because Riikola can do what Schultz does, be a OFD and a #2 PPQB. If you replace JJ with Riikola, you're not adding a PKing DFD, so you have to replace JJ's minutes somewhere else.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I actually liked how Riikola looked with Letang. I don't think he's better than JJ or Petts defensively, but offensively I think he is, I think he's more physical than Petts, but not more than JJ.

Which is to be expected given Riikola's experience so far, but there are so many good things there to want to play him, but you know what, lack of logic dictates, he should be out there with Geno's line..JJ I mean.

Also, Schultz is such crap since he has been back, I actually would rather see Trotman in over him.

I can buy Riikola over Schultz except that the LD/RD situation doesn't work out for them to really be competing for a spot. Right now while Marino is out, I can get behind Riikola behind the Geno line on the 2nd pair. But if we're healthy, Riikola imo clearly belongs on our 3rd pair or in the press box. Dumo-Letang is clear number 1. Marino and either JJ or Petts is the 2nd pair. That leaves the 3rd pair as a combination of JJ/Petts or Riikola at LD and Schultz or Ruh at RD. I think that basically means either JJ/Petts with Schultz, or Riikola with Ruh, based on having balanced pairs. At that point the question imo is JJ vs Ruh, with Schultz and Riikola filling in the other side of those pairs. Being tied to Ruh like that makes it a fairly easy call imo that Riikola ends up sitting.

 

[Flying Dego]

I’m sure he does, he’s probably like an old buddy of mine who had a crazy metabolism when we were younger.

My buddy would eat like 5000 calories a day and was a rake.

Didn’t matter how much time he spent in the gym either.

Used to really frustrate the hell out of him, but now he’s not so young anymore he can really pack on the pounds... except now he doesn’t want to.

I have that exact issue. And through strength training and nutrition you can build up to 190. Petts has access to top of the line trainers and nutritionists. There's no reason he couldn't gain 10 lbs in an offseason... during the season I understand that would be near impossible.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Riikola is absolutely better than Jack Johnson right now. The shine has fallen completely off JJ from his time with Marino early in the season. He's killing Letang right now.

Maybe that's because he's a #5 defenseman being forced onto a top pair role due to injuries. Just comparing the results of the two, while not mentioning that JJ plays dramatically more difficult minutes, seems a little disingenuous.

 

[ChaosAgent]

As someone's who's been around Malkin enough to know (don't ask), Malkin's actually got a pretty big frame. No surprise that he could bulk up once he decided to do so. Petts might not have the same big bone structure that Geno has.

Maybe that's true.

I'd still like to see him try.

I swear I'm not a big fitness guy - everyone is different - but I think Petts' lanky frame underpins a whole lot of his issues with contact (which in turn hinders his decision-making) and the fact that he so frequently gets dominated on the boards.

How Big Is the Average NHL Player?

I know BMI has myriad issues but the average BMI of an NHL player is 26. Pettersson is at 22.

 

[Gurglesons]

Pettersson since Dumoulin went down has been a top four D who floats 1st or 2nd in terms of possession, Gf%, expected GA, and any other stat you want at 5v5 while getting the least advantageous usage of our top four defensemen.

During that time period (Nov 30th to now.) this team is second in wins, third in points and second in point percentage.

Imagine complaining about this player right now.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Maybe that's because he's a #5 defenseman being forced onto a top pair role due to injuries. Just comparing the results of the two, while not mentioning that JJ plays dramatically more difficult minutes, seems a little disingenuous.

dude I feel like half this board wants to replace our #1D with 3rd pair guys every year because they give up less goals playing against joe blow for 10 minutes than he does against Ovechkin in 25. Good luck with that fight

 

[Empoleon8771]

Pettersson since Dumoulin went down has been a top four D who floats 1st or 2nd in terms of possession, Gf%, expected GA, and any other stat you want at 5v5 while getting the least advantageous usage of our top four defensemen.

During that time period (Nov 30th to now.) this team is second in wins, third in points and second in point percentage.

Imagine complaining about this player right now.

Pettersson is going to be treated exactly like Maatta was treated on here going forward, especially with the contract he got. He's going to give solid to good results, but he'll play an ugly style that this board won't like and they'll act like he's way worse than he actually is. With Maatta, it was his skating. With Pettersson, it's his awkwardness.

Oddly enough, I think McCann is the same way. His results will be great, but because he has what this board views as flaws as a player (tunnel vision and spazzy), he'll get **** on. I really liked McCann with Malkin yesterday, but if I dig through posts here, I'm willing to bet that there were at least some people who were complaining about that.

dude I feel like half this board wants to replace our #1D with 3rd pair guys every year because they give up less goals playing against joe blow for 10 minutes than he does against Ovechkin in 25. Good luck with that fight

Oh believe me, I don't doubt that. I know some here were saying the Penguins should trade Letang because they had Schultz in 2017 and I bet some were saying the Penguins should trade Letang because they had Niskanen in 2014. If this board could call the shots, every defenseman would be traded after at most 2 years

 

[Gurglesons]

Pettersson is going to be treated exactly like Maatta was treated on here going forward, especially with the contract he got. He's going to give solid to good results, but he'll play an ugly style that this board won't like and they'll act like he's way worse than he actually is. With Maatta, it was his skating. With Pettersson, it's his awkwardness.

Oddly enough, I think McCann is the same way. His results will be great, but because he has what this board views as flaws as a player (tunnel vision and spazzy), he'll get **** on. I really liked McCann with Malkin yesterday, but if I dig through posts here, I'm willing to bet that there were at least some people who were complaining about that.



Oh believe me, I don't doubt that. I know some here were saying the Penguins should trade Letang because they had Schultz in 2017 and I bet some were saying the Penguins should trade Letang because they had Niskanen in 2014. If this board could call the shots, every defenseman would be traded after at most 2 years

Niskanen at least made sense from a signing perspective.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Niskanen at least made sense from a signing perspective.

Yeah, they should have re-signed Niskanen, but re-signing Niskanen vs trading Letang and replacing him with Niskanen are very different things

I vaguely recall that there was a rumor that JR discussed a Paul Martin to Colorado trade, where they'd be getting Colorado's 1st round pick for Martin. That rumor was out because there was a video of JR and Poile talking of adding a pick swap in the Neal-Hornqvist trade, where the Penguins would give up 2 1sts (theirs and Colorado's) and get the Preds 1st back. I would have done the Martin to Colorado trade and used his money to re-sign Niskanen. It's hard to complain about not doing that right now, but that's what I would have wanted to do.