Post-Game Talk: Cole's Plus/Minus: Zucker firing candy hearts at the Habs

[Andy99]

Damn, I can’t believe I missed the second and third periods of this game and Zucker’s coming out party....my girlfriend is keeping me from Pens games....I’m going to have to ditch her and become celibate....

 

[ColePens]

For as BAD as Schultz has been in recent memory, i'm going to give him his first compliment of the year from this board.

I think Schultz is the absolute best at joining the rush late and finding that empty lane. He has a natural instinct on it. If he found his ability to bury it, that would be the best "rental" we could get on defense. He is so damn good at trailing in late.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I have that exact issue. And through strength training and nutrition you can build up to 190. Petts has access to top of the line trainers and nutritionists. There's no reason he couldn't gain 10 lbs in an offseason... during the season I understand that would be near impossible.

Nothing is impossible, but hard gainer has to eat a ton of the right foods, which ya a top of the line trainer can help you with... but it can be nauseating to eat that much on a daily basis.

Then he has to focus on conditioning and that will drop a lot of his gains...

It’s just a rough cycle for guys like him. I’ve seen it with a couple buddies and it’s frustrating to have those kind of genetics if you want to get bigger.

I remember reading over the summer how POJ struggles with the same issues and he was doing a lot of the right stuff, but he just struggles to keep the weight on he gains.

'Lanky' prospect Pierre-Olivier Joseph gets his first taste of Penguins hockey

 

[Andy99]

For as BAD as Schultz has been in recent memory, i'm going to give him his first compliment of the year from this board.

I think Schultz is the absolute best at joining the rush late and finding that empty lane. He has a natural instinct on it. If he found his ability to bury it, that would be the best "rental" we could get on defense. He is so damn good at trailing in late.

yeah, but his value is in potting those goals...he’s really been bad at that this year...I mean just weirdly off...he used to a find way to make a lane to hit the net with his shot by changing the angle, but he doesn’t seem to do that anymore...wonder if the injuries have taken a toll on his skating/lateral movement...

 

[ChaosAgent]

Pettersson since Dumoulin went down has been a top four D who floats 1st or 2nd in terms of possession, Gf%, expected GA, and any other stat you want at 5v5 while getting the least advantageous usage of our top four defensemen.

During that time period (Nov 30th to now.) this team is second in wins, third in points and second in point percentage.

Imagine complaining about this player right now.

I like Petts. I just think he could be much better if he were 10-15 lbs bigger.

He needs to get a nutritionist and a good trainer this offseason. He wasn't rich before. But he is now. So go do it.

Maybe we need to start tagging our posts as "constructive criticism" vs. "complaining."

 

[Ogrezilla]

Oddly enough, I think McCann is the same way. His results will be great, but because he has what this board views as flaws as a player (tunnel vision and spazzy), he'll get **** on. I really liked McCann with Malkin yesterday, but if I dig through posts here, I'm willing to bet that there were at least some people who were complaining about that.

I look at McCann like I do dupuis in that role. He's pretty effective, but you can just see where someone a bit more talented could have a billion points. But someone a bit more talented either costs way more or probably isn't as fast to be getting all the same chances. But the optics of it really stand out.

I agree on McCann last night. That's a good game. I think his offense is largely going to be volume driven in the top 6. He will get a lot of chances, but convert a relatively low percentage. And it will lead to amazing nights where he gets the bounces and he will have nights like last night where he gets nothing out of it.

And honestly, I think that's been rust most of his career too.

 

[ChaosAgent]

But you need someone to replace JJ's minutes. Riikola isn't that. Riikola is a logical replacement for Schultz because Riikola can do what Schultz does, be a OFD and a #2 PPQB. If you replace JJ with Riikola, you're not adding a PKing DFD, so you have to replace JJ's minutes somewhere else.

When healthy we have Letang, Marino, Petts and Dumo playing PK. That's more than enough.

As far as replacing JJ's minutes somewhere else - exactly. Get a fringe 6-7D for $1.5M instead of overpaying $3.3M for JJ. I guess that guy can PK too.

This is where you and I just fundamentally disagree on the value of "roles." We don't have another player like JJ. But that in of itself isn't a good justification for keeping him. He still has to play well.

 

[Gurglesons]

I look at McCann like I do dupuis in that role. He's pretty effective, but you can just see where someone a bit more talented could have a billion points. But someone a bit more talented either costs way more or probably isn't as fast to be getting all the same chances. But the optics of it really stand out.

I agree on McCann last night. That's a good game. I think his offense is largely going to be volume driven in the top 6. He will get a lot of chances, but convert a relatively low percentage. And it will lead to amazing nights where he gets the bounces and he will have nights like last night where he gets nothing out of it.

And honestly, I think that's been rust most of his career too.

McCann isn’t a top six winger. Rust is.

 

[Gurglesons]

When healthy we have Letang, Marino, Petts and Dumo playing PK. That's more than enough.

As far as replacing JJ's minutes somewhere else - exactly. Get a fringe 6-7D for $1.5M instead of overpaying $3.3M for JJ. I guess that guy can PK too.

This is where you and I just fundamentally disagree on the value of "roles." We don't have another player like JJ. But that in of itself isn't a good justification for keeping him. He still has to play well.

Why would you want to waste Letang’s ice time on the PK if you don’t have to?

 

[Ugene Magic]

JJ is what Cole did for the Pens and is needed. You need those guys who can take the beating of constant forechecking. Now obviously he isn't a top pair fodder, and as Emp put it, we can't really gauge this while injuries push him into a spot he should be in. He's not Letang who can handle top minutes and PK. Bigger guy, more energy spent. It is about managing the minutes.

Petts is a bit exposed due to having to be the next guy at LD up after Dumo went down. It's really hard to expect a D-core to be effective to the point where 2 of your best D-men are out. Everything kind of settles in once they are back. Since Dec. Petts has been playing a ton of minutes, and I don't see it as an issue and a learning curve being forced upon him. He'll be better for it, as will the team when they get healthy bodies back.

I also think Schultz could use the 3rd pairing support role until things click for him. He's had a tough few years in and out of the lineup. Constant partners changing.

Needless to say, I think they all could use some stability back.

 

[Empoleon8771]

When healthy we have Letang, Marino, Petts and Dumo playing PK. That's more than enough.

As far as replacing JJ's minutes somewhere else - exactly. Get a fringe 6-7D for $1.5M instead of overpaying $3.3M for JJ. I guess that guy can PK too.

This is where you and I just fundamentally disagree on the value of "roles." We don't have another player like JJ. But that in of itself isn't a good justification for keeping him. He still has to play well.

And what if one of those defensemen takes a penalty? You need more than 4 defenseman capable of killing penalties in the NHL. That doesn't mean you have to get another JJ, but you need someone who's at least capable of killing penalties. I'm also not going to address the problem with hammering Letang with that many minutes, either. Ideally, you limit his PKing minutes to give him as many ES and PP minutes as possible.

 

[SouthGeorge]

Word on the streets is Letang had a great game. I can't confirm or deny. I saw he had a nice snipe though.

 

[Ogrezilla]

McCann isn’t a top six winger. Rust is.

sure, but they aren't all that dissimilar in that regard. Rust is just better. McCann is a pretty good 6th best winger, which I think is roughly his situation on this team. The issue I have is that I think he's higher on the center list than wing list.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

Why would you want to waste Letang’s ice time on the PK if you don’t have to?

Especially as he ages.

PK are tought minutes.

 

[ChaosAgent]

And what if one of those defensemen takes a penalty? You need more than 4 defenseman capable of killing penalties in the NHL. That doesn't mean you have to get another JJ, but you need someone who's at least capable of killing penalties. I'm also not going to address the problem with hammering Letang with that many minutes, either. Ideally, you limit his PKing minutes to give him as many ES and PP minutes as possible.

Well, you'd get a #6D cheaply who could hypothetically play PK and not kill you. Even Ruh hasn't exactly killed us on the PK.

I think JJ is a fine PKer. I just don't think having a bad ES player that's your 4th or 5th best PKing defenseman is worth anywhere near $3.3M a year.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Well, you'd get a #6D cheaply who could hypothetically play PK and not kill you. Even Ruh hasn't exactly killed us on the PK.

I think JJ is a fine PKer. I just don't think having a bad ES player that's your 4th or 5th best PKing defenseman is worth anywhere near $3.3M a year.

Yeah, that's what I would be fine with too. But that's not "replace JJ with Riikola", that's "replace Schultz with Riikola, trade JJ and bring in a replacement for JJ". I'm all for that 2nd option, but just replacing Riikola with JJ isn't that.

 

[Ugene Magic]

McCann isn’t a top six winger. Rust is.

He is now, but he even had to grow through the things McCann is going through now. Role changing and all. Like Rust from LW to RW up and down from bottom six to top six. McCann can play C so his changing is a little more daunting to get used to the change and then gaining confidence in the change.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Yeah, that's what I would be fine with too. But that's not "replace JJ with Riikola", that's "replace Schultz with Riikola, trade JJ and bring in a replacement for JJ". I'm all for that 2nd option, but just replacing Riikola with JJ isn't that.

I'm on board with that. Consensus is fun!

=)

 

[JackFr]

Letang is a really really good penalty killer. I have no problem giving him those minutes considering that the alternative is guys who are "good penalty killers" who actually suck at it like Johnson.

And I'm sorry, I think Riikola would do better on that top pairing, just because it would be incredibly difficult for him to be doing worse than JJ. We know who Johnson is, I don't know why we keep pretending he isn't bad. He had a nice little stretch with Marino (which I think we now know enough to say was more because of Marino than him).

For the record, I think Pettersson would be a better fit with Letang than Johnson. I know that suggesting Pettersson isnt terrible is haram here...

 

[Andy99]

I look at McCann like I do dupuis in that role. He's pretty effective, but you can just see where someone a bit more talented could have a billion points. But someone a bit more talented either costs way more or probably isn't as fast to be getting all the same chances. But the optics of it really stand out.

I agree on McCann last night. That's a good game. I think his offense is largely going to be volume driven in the top 6. He will get a lot of chances, but convert a relatively low percentage. And it will lead to amazing nights where he gets the bounces and he will have nights like last night where he gets nothing out of it.

And honestly, I think that's been rust most of his career too.

Agree...that’s what I don’t like about McCann- G-Rust.,. When G is double teamed, there’s no one there he can pass to who can consistently finish...I’d try Kahun there at least first...in any event, our best shooters in the top 6 are G and Sid and we need players with them who have enough offensive IQ to get them the puck with space, not just get open for them...Jake has that IQ...hopefully Zucker can do that for Sid and both Sid and G need to be the shooter on their lines more...would help a lot if they can get the space to get off shots

 

[Gurglesons]

He is now, but he even had to grow through the things McCann is going through now. Role changing and all. Like Rust from LW to RW up and down from bottom six to top six. McCann can play C so his changing is a little more daunting to get used to the change and then gaining confidence in the change.

I see nothing in McCann’s game that proves he will be a top six winger.

He’s a defensively solid pest, with speed and a cannon of a shot. His playmaking is trash and he doesn’t play well along the boards.

Rust has a ton of skill and hands and has won every forecheck he gets in on since day one.

 

[ziggyjoe212]

Letang is a legit #1 Dman who can play in every situation. We have one of the best PK's in the NHL and Letang is 3rd on the team in PK ice time, just 3 seconds behind JJ. Taking Letang off the PK to rest would as as dumb as taking Sid of the PP to rest.

 

[Peat]

I feel pretty safe in assuming that Pettersson has realised he's a bean pole who'd be a lot better for more muscle and has tried very hard to add it. As MrJiggyfly points out, it's just not something that automatically comes for everyone with lots of hard work.

Also agreeing that...

Good teams have more than 4 dmen they trust on the PK

That JJ really isn't good with Letang. Problem there is I really don't trust the other options either, and if you put Pettersson there, JJ seems to be even worse with Schultz. Its infuriating that he only seems to work with Marino.

That McCann was good last night, but I mostly agree with pixies' criticisms and think he'd have to get more consistent to be a proper option there. Not bad to have as a pinch hitter.

Also, Schultz's stretch passes recently have been really good.

 

[mpp9]

I see nothing in McCann’s game that proves he will be a top six winger.

He’s a defensively solid pest, with speed and a cannon of a shot. His playmaking is trash and he doesn’t play well along the boards.

Rust has a ton of skill and hands and has won every forecheck he gets in on since day one.

I don't agree McCann is garbage on wing. His shot alone will make him useful there with 87 or 71 feeding him.

But yeah, he's definitely best off at center. And if we can acquire another bottom six forward, I think Sullivan can roll 4 lines and trust McCann at center. Not a fan of having him on wing on the 3rd line with Bjug at center.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I don't agree McCann is garbage on wing. His shot alone will make him useful there with 87 or 71 feeding him.

But yeah, he's definitely best off at center. And if we can acquire another bottom six forward, I think Sullivan can roll 4 lines and trust McCann at center. Not a fan of having him on wing on the 3rd line with Bjug at center.

the thing with the shot imo is that he seems better at skating in and taking a shot with possession than he is at finding soft spots in the D to get open for a pass. That said, he got a bunch of chances last night. If that becomes more typical, he could start doing more for us at wing. But I'd still probably push him back to C as soon as Kahun is back. If our 4th line includes McCann and Horny, suddenly it is looking more like a 3rd line.