Proposal: Col/Mtl around Drouin for Byram

[a mangy Meowth]

So by not increasing his production in the Dub in Draft + 1, he is not disappointing to Avs fans? Contributing 2 assists at the WJHC....

He's been a disappointment. Doesn't mean he can't turn it around. But call a spade a spade.

Same regurgitated, unintelligent talking points that show you have watched about 1% or less of his season so far. Did you not see like 4 other hab fans say what you said?

 

[Habs Halifax]

I never mentioned anywhere that Romanov > Byram. Believe me, I'd want Byram on my team. And my offer, if I were to make one wouldn't be an insulting Drouin for Byram 1-for-1. But it wouldn't be Drouin + Romanov + Caufield either.

Agreed. Avs have every right to say no but Drouin for Byram 1/1 is not an insult. They are off the rails using words like an insult. Byram has not even turned pro yet and somehow he is a sure shot #1D and there is zero chance he disappoints? Yeah sure, I don't know of any prospect like that

This is just a rare type of trade. I challenge anybody to find a past example we can use to evaluate against.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Skinner was a pending UFA who had a NMC. You got another better example?

Drouin
- Age 24
- 50+ pts of proven production from 19-24
- Signed for this year and another 3 years at $5.5M from 24-28

Byram
- Age 18
- A very good prospect with postive trends
- Has not turned pro yet

I think you will have a very hard time finding an example bud. Drouin for Sergachev and a 2nd is the closest you will find. And who added the 2nd?

Skinner had an entire year left on his contract. You make it sound like he was a TDL rental. You're right though, not many trades involving 18 year old prospects who were just drafted 4th overall 8 months ago. Know why? Because teams aren't trading their high end prospects for 24 year olds.

Montreal was ridiculed the day that trade happened, and for good reason. Good luck finding somebody else stupid enough to make the same mistake Bergervin did.

 

[a mangy Meowth]

Ok buddy, just created a poll to see what the good Ol' HF specialists think about Byram's season

Hahaha, what do you think that is going to prove other than how petty and immature you are?

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Same regurgitated, unintelligent talking points that show you have watched about 1% or less of his season so far. Did you not see like 4 other hab fans say what you said?

So you are thrilled with his production this year? hahahahaha

 

[Habs Halifax]

Skinner had an entire year left on his contract. You make it sound like he was a TDL rental.

Montreal was ridiculed the day that trade happened, and for good reason. Good luck finding somebody else stupid enough to make the same mistake Bergervin did.

With all due respect, it's not a good example. Skinner had a NMC and yeah, it was a for an extra year in term. Using that trade as a bench mark is a stretch. Find another one that fits better please.

 

[a mangy Meowth]

So you are thrilled with his production this year? hahahahaha

I'm thrilled that he's showing the same awesome abilities as last year while working on and improving other parts of his game, and still producing at about the same pace as his season last year as well, before he exploded in the last part of the season. Not all of us base our entire opinions on a players stats, especially a prospect looked at to be an all around minute munching D man.

 

[Cenzo_]

Hahaha, what do you think that is going to prove other than how petty and immature you are?

Ok yeah the mature one is the one throwing insults. A poll is a good way to see people's opinion how is that not clear?

 

[DarthProbert]

Works two ways though.... Name one team that trades a 24 year old just about to touch prime years and has 60 pts +/- of potential for a prospect who has not turned pro yet? Do you have a past trade example we can use as a bench mark? Pretty sure you will have a hard time finding something close

This is not a one sided trade. This just is a trade neither side does. Too much risks on both sides IMO. What if Drouin is who he is and does not improve in his prime and what if Byram disappoints after he turns pro? Stop pretending Byram is a sure shot #1D and Drouin will not be a 60-80 pts forward playing with a real top 2C for once in his NHL career

Name one other player who's 24 years old in his 6th NHL season who still has to be marketed on "potential". He is what he is. 20 goals once. 50 points once. He's had every opportunity. If he has to be marketed on "potential", well Byram has more of it at this point, and at far less cap hit. If Byram were to be available for a forward, the Avs could do better than Drouin and his "potential".

 

[Junohockeyfan]

I'm thrilled that he's showing the same awesome abilities as last year while working on and improving other parts of his game, and still producing at about the same pace as his season last year as well, before he exploded in the last part of the season. Not all of us base our entire opinions on a players stats, especially a prospect looked at to be an all around minute munching D man.

Those who don't base on stats are the ones who are trying to find a silver lining on an otherwise crappy season. He's been a disappointment. Own it and accept it. It happens to good prospects.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

With all due respect, it's not a good example. Skinner had a NMC and yeah, it was a for an extra year in term. Using that trade as a bench mark is a stretch. Find another one that fits better please.

How about you don't set the goalposts two inches apart and then demand a scoring shot?

Nobody's bailing Bergervin out for his God-awful Sergachev/Drouin trade. Sorry.

 

[RationalExpectations]

Nobody is considering that Drouin turns into a 60-80 pts winger by playing with a real top 2C and Byram trends like Sergachev perhaps?

That s the issue. Trying to evaluate the value of a player is the same as with a firm : if the buyer thinks he can obtain synergies via acquiring the asset, then the value is going to be greater to him than to the seller, and hence a deal can be made. (You are never guaranteed to have these synergies though)

This is why I do not see Danault being traded for example. In any contending team, he is a low 2C/high 3C center but since MTL is lacking good centers (or since CJ decides that Domi should only play with Cousins and Weal on the third line ), Danault has a much greater value to MTL than to any other team.

In auction theory, we could advance that players have a common value part (skills) and a private value part depending on the hockey teams they play for. I believe GM try to capture this in a trade valuation or at the draft (dilemma between BPA and position filling) but fans well we tend to consider value via current point production or draft position for prospects.

 

[A Loyal Dog]

Agreed. Avs have every right to say no but Drouin for Byram 1/1 is not an insult. They are off the rails using words like an insult. Byram has not even turned pro yet and somehow he is a sure shot #1D and there is zero chance he disappoints? Yeah sure, I don't know of any prospect like that

This is just a rare type of trade. I challenge anybody to find a past example we can use to evaluate against.

Would you personally trade a most recent top 4 (overall) pick for Jonathan f***ing Drouin? Nobody would.

 

[a mangy Meowth]

Those who don't base on stats are the ones who are trying to find a silver lining on an otherwise crappy season. He's been a disappointment. Own it and accept it. It happens to good prospects.

You actually believe this? lol good lord

 

[RationalExpectations]

Name one other player who's 24 years old in his 6th NHL season who still has to be marketed on "potential". He is what he is. 20 goals once. 50 points once. He's had every opportunity. If he has to be marketed on "potential", well Byram has more of it at this point, and at far less cap hit. If Byram were to be available for a forward, the Avs could do better than Drouin and his "potential".

I believe you are right, as mentioned in another post, he is a 50 point top 6 player. I believe potential means "when playing with a better center" he could score more points (which is true, is Marner, is Rantanen a 90 point player standalone ? or is it due to the fact they are playing with Matthews or MacKinnon). We can agree that Byram has more upside than Drouin does, I believe nobody denies that ^^ (and that the Avs should not trade 1v1 for Drouin given the respective perceived value of the players right now)

 

[Junohockeyfan]

You actually believe this? lol good lord

Yes because i know deep down you are disappointed. The obvious hope was for increased production in the Dub in draft + 1 while improving in the other areas. Regressing offensively.... well that's disappointing. In the WJHC - the obvious hope was good offensive production with steady defense. He provided the latter only. Disappointing for someone drafted so early.

But keep denying the obvious. Denial is not just a river in Africa!

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Those who don't base on stats are the ones who are trying to find a silver lining on an otherwise crappy season. He's been a disappointment. Own it and accept it. It happens to good prospects.

Are you suggesting that defensemen should be judged solely based on their point totals?

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Would you personally trade a most recent top 4 (overall) pick for Jonathan ****ing Drouin? Nobody would.

To be fair, somebody would, and did, and was promptly laughed at.

... Problem is it's the guy who currently owns Drouin.

 

[DarthProbert]

I believe you are right, as mentioned in another post, he is a 50 point top 6 player. I believe potential means "when playing with a better center" he could score more points (which is true, is Marner, is Rantanen a 90 point player standalone ? or is it due to the fact they are playing with Matthews or MacKinnon). We can agree that Byram has more upside than Drouin does, I believe nobody denies that ^^ (and that the Avs should not trade 1v1 for Drouin given the respective perceived value of the players right now)

Thing is, if the premise of acquiring Drouin is to put him with MacKinnon, then there's even less point to coughing up assets and cap space. Rantanen isn't losing a spot to Drouin, and Burakovsky is outperforming Drouin for cheaper. And people lament Landeskog's performance this yeat but he's outscoring Drouin also. So's Donskoi. And Nichushkin.

If MTL can peddle Drouin based on potential then by all means they should consider it, but the Avs don't need him.

 

[A Loyal Dog]

To be fair, somebody would, and did, and was promptly laughed at.

... Problem is it's the guy who currently owns Drouin.

Marc Bergevin, where biceps maketh men.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Are you suggesting that defensemen should be judged solely based on their point totals?

I am saying young prospects are judged on their development which includes increased offensive production in D + 1, particularly when you were drafted so early. When you regress in production, its disappointing.

If you disagree with that then you are lying to yourself!

 

[a mangy Meowth]

Yes because i know deep down you are disappointed. The obvious hope was for increased production in the Dub in draft + 1 while improving in the other areas. Regressing offensively.... well that's disappointing. In the WJHC - the obvious hope was good offensive production with steady defense. He provided the latter only. Disappointing for someone drafted so early.

But keep denying the obvious. Denial is not just a river in Africa!

You can keep telling me I'm disappointed but that doesn't make it true xD

You know what's obvious to me? That you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[a mangy Meowth]

If MTL can peddle Drouin based on potential then by all means they should consider it, but the Avs don't need him.

We're beyond this now. We're at the 'assassinate Byram' section of this MTL proposed thread.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

You can keep telling me I'm disappointed but that doesn't make it true xD

You know what's obvious to me? That you have no idea what you are talking about.

LOL, keep lying to yourself mangy. At some point you will come to terms with it. Obviously you haven't yet.

PM me if you need help.

 

[a mangy Meowth]

LOL, keep lying to yourself mangy. At some point you will come to terms with it. Obviously you haven't yet.

PM me if you need help.

"Everyone agrees with me or they're wrong. They'll come around though"