Proposal: Col/Mtl around Drouin for Byram

[WingsMJN2965]

Nobody is considering that Drouin turns into a 60-80 pts winger by playing with a real top 2C and Byram trends like Sergachev perhaps?

When you find somebody to sell this on, let me know. If Athanasiou can score 30 with Glendening and Nielsen as his most common linemates, imagine what he could do with actual NHL caliber players.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

I mean as much as the Avs would love Jonathan Drouin and all his potential, they’re more overwhelmed by tracking a younger Nathan Mackinnon and his potential. Just wait until he breaks out!!

I can’t believe the “potential” argument is being used on a 25 year old band aid.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

"Everyone agrees with me or they're wrong. They'll come around though"

That's not too far from the truth actually!

Just be true to yourself Mangy. You can do this. Its ok to be disappointed. lol

 

[a mangy Meowth]

That's not too far from the truth actually!

Just be true to yourself Mangy. You can do this. Its ok to be disappointed. lol

Just so we're clear, you actually think that you've made a good point here or something? Or are you trolling?

 

[Drew311]

Byram is not available for trade. It does not make sense to move him for anything remotely realistic.
Drouin certainly does not move the needle enough in that regard.

Avs are set up very well for the future if Byram and to a lesser extent Timmins come even close to what we hope they can.
It makes no sense to give up on that to bring in someone to play on our second line given that Byram should fill what is arguable our biggest need down the road (another quality top2-4 D to pair with Makar/Girard/X).

To make such a definitive statement i'm assuming you've confirmed this with Sakic?

 

[a mangy Meowth]

To make such a definitive statement i'm assuming you've confirmed this with Sakic?

Sakic has pretty much flat out said they aren't going to trade him. He said you can only obtain a player like Byram through the draft.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Just so we're clear, you actually think that you've made a good point here or something? Or are you trolling?

I know i have made a good point because obviously i've hit a nerve with you. Its quite obvious that one would expect a top-4 draft pick to increase his production and to contribute offensively in the WJHC. When that doesn't happen its a disappointment. You denying it is comical.

Now i'll let you get the last word so you can vent and get some of that disapointment off your chest.

 

[a mangy Meowth]

I know i have made a good point because obviously i've hit a nerve with you. Its quite obvious that one would expect a top-4 draft pick to increase his production and to contribute offensively in the WJHC. When that doesn't happen its a disappointment. You denying it is comical.

Now i'll let you get the last word so you can vent and get some of that disapointment off your chest.

Just a good ol' classic thread where a fanbase proposes a trade where they lowball for a good player by offering mediocre, and then when they get told it's mediocre, they lash out emotionally at the player they wanted in the first place. Fascinating stuff, but nothing new really.

 

[Drew311]

Sakic has pretty much flat out said they aren't going to trade him. He said you can only obtain a player like Byram through the draft.

GM's say a lot of things. If the Avs want an impact winger, Byram is the guy that's going the other way.

 

[a mangy Meowth]

GM's say a lot of things. If the Avs want an impact winger, Byram is the guy that's going the other way.

Totally agree, they play politics big time. Let's see what happens over the next 11 days then. My guess is that Byram does not get traded. We have very little else on the left side and Sakic knows it. He also knows how valuable that ELC will be.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

I am saying young prospects are judged on their development which includes increased offensive production in D + 1, particularly when you were drafted so early. When you regress in production, its disappointing.

If you disagree with that then you are lying to yourself!

But, he's a defensemen. His offensive production might not even be in the top 10 things that matter the most in terms of development. I'm much more interested in his defensive play, which by all accounts has been much improved.

And, he's still in the top 10 in PPG among D for the season, playing on a team that has the 9th fewest goals scored in the league. Every single player above him on the list plays for a team that has at least 30 more goals on the season.

 

[RationalExpectations]

Thing is, if the premise of acquiring Drouin is to put him with MacKinnon, then there's even less point to coughing up assets and cap space. Rantanen isn't losing a spot to Drouin, and Burakovsky is outperforming Drouin for cheaper. And people lament Landeskog's performance this yeat but he's outscoring Drouin also. So's Donskoi. And Nichushkin.

If MTL can peddle Drouin based on potential then by all means they should consider it, but the Avs don't need him.

I fully agree this trade proposal does not make sense. The Avs have a fanstastic top line and I am not sure Kadri would provide Drouin with much of an upside compared to let us say Domi. I believe this point is clear to everybody here, the discussion has derivated towards the value of each player separately ahah

And you cannot compare Donskoi to Drouin in terms of points, the latter has not played between November and one week ago

 

[Kaizer]

Out of curiosity, when was the last time when a Top-5 selection from previous draft was traded away (even before they spend a year with their club)?

 

[Habs Halifax]

Name one other player who's 24 years old in his 6th NHL season who still has to be marketed on "potential". He is what he is. 20 goals once. 50 points once. He's had every opportunity. If he has to be marketed on "potential", well Byram has more of it at this point, and at far less cap hit. If Byram were to be available for a forward, the Avs could do better than Drouin and his "potential".

Sure, there are question marks if Drouin will become a 60-80 pts player in his prime. Doesn't mean that Byram will turn into a top pairing D man either. Risks on both sides here man.

Fine me a past trade like this. Then we can talk. This trade idea is rare in the NHL.

 

[Habs Halifax]

How about you don't set the goalposts two inches apart and then demand a scoring shot?

Nobody's bailing Bergervin out for his God-awful Sergachev/Drouin trade. Sorry.

I'm assuming you looked for another example and didn't find any and then turned around to replying with this? You didn't hurt our feelings

 

[Papa Francouz]

GM's say a lot of things. If the Avs want an impact winger, Byram is the guy that's going the other way.

Disagree. Defensemen are astronomically more valuable than wingers - wingers are the least valuable position in hockey. And as Sakic has previously said, the only way you can get young, top-4 defensemen is by drafting them yourself. If Byram goes for a winger, it will be for a winger that is in multiple tiers above where the Avs believe Byram will end up.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

I'm assuming you looked for another example and didn't find any and then turned around to replying with this? You didn't hurt our feelings

This was addressed in an edit while you were replying to a post.

"You're right though, not many trades involving 18 year old prospects who were just drafted 4th overall 8 months ago. Know why? Because teams aren't trading their high end prospects for 24 year olds."

I'm a bit concerned by your use of, "Our", though. Multiple personality problems?

You were given an example with Skinner. It's not my fault you want to whine about the small details because it doesn't fit your narrative, and I'm not wasting my time seeking out more examples if you're gonna reject them over something petty. Drouin isn't worth Byram. Get over it.

 

[smack66]

drouin could play a game with a dozen eggs and would finish without cracking one.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Would you personally trade a most recent top 4 (overall) pick for Jonathan ****ing Drouin? Nobody would.

You mean like Kotkaniemi or Zadina? Byram is a good prospect no doubt. I think you are too negative towards Drouin to be honest. Risk management is a two way street

 

[EdAVSfan]

The primes of forwards nowadays is in the age range of 22-25 statistically.

If anything, Drouin is likely exiting his prime years rather than entering them.

He doesn’t solve a problem. He doesn’t solve any issues. In fact, he doesn’t help the areas the Avs actually need help in.

The Avs already have their own “Drouin” on the roster in Burakovsky. Inconsistent, but talented 1 way forward.

We paid a 2nd and 3rd for him.

But the other costs Byram.

Go figure.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

You mean like Kotkaniemi or Zadina? Byram is a good prospect no doubt. I think you are too negative towards Drouin to be honest. Risk management is a two way street

Zadina has the same number of points this season as Drouin, playing on a much worse team. Why exactly would Detroit trade him for Drouin?

 

[Habs Halifax]

Zadina has the same number of points this season as Drouin, playing on a much worse team. Why exactly would Detroit trade him for Drouin?

My point is risks works two ways. You are acting like Drouin will not mature and grow in his prime while Byram is a sure shot top pairing D. I'm fully aware of Drouin's strengths and flaws. The kid needs to play with a real top 2C before you realize his true potential. Byram is a very very good prospect who has not turned pro yet.

This type of trade is rare. Very rare. That's my point. It's not a one way street. Your Zadina comment does not help this conversation either way. Drouin was off to a great start this year before that injury.

 

[Habs Halifax]

This was addressed in an edit while you were replying to a post.

"You're right though, not many trades involving 18 year old prospects who were just drafted 4th overall 8 months ago. Know why? Because teams aren't trading their high end prospects for 24 year olds."

I'm a bit concerned by your use of, "Our", though. Multiple personality problems?

You were given an example with Skinner. It's not my fault you want to whine about the small details because it doesn't fit your narrative, and I'm not wasting my time seeking out more examples if you're gonna reject them over something petty. Drouin isn't worth Byram. Get over it.

Skinner is a horrible example and I told you the reasons. Try again. This is not really about Drouin vs Byram. This conversation is about one team trading a proven NHL talent heading into their prime with term for a prospect who has not turned pro yet.

Talk to me when you find a good trade example we can measure against.

 

[Habs Halifax]

The primes of forwards nowadays is in the age range of 22-25 statistically.

If anything, Drouin is likely exiting his prime years rather than entering them.

He doesn’t solve a problem. He doesn’t solve any issues. In fact, he doesn’t help the areas the Avs actually need help in.

The Avs already have their own “Drouin” on the roster in Burakovsky. Inconsistent, but talented 1 way forward.

We paid a 2nd and 3rd for him.

But the other costs Byram.

Go figure.

Prime years for forwards is more like 25-30 bud. If their prime starts at 22+, they are elite level most often than not. You trying to tell us MacKinnon only has one more prime year left cause he is 24? Come on man

Drouin is exiting his prime at 24? Sorry man but this is ridiculous. And I try to avoid words like that. But in this case, I think you need to take a seat and rethink your comments.

Why don't you just say this... We will not be trading Byram cause we don't know how good he will be. That is a respectable answer IMO

 

[EdAVSfan]

Prime years for forwards is more like 25-30 bud. If their prime starts at 22+, they are elite level most often than not. You trying to tell us MacKinnon only has one more prime year left cause he is 24? Come on man

Drouin is exiting his prime at 24? Sorry man but this is ridiculous

Statistically? Yes. I expect these are Mackinnons best offensive years.

I really don’t imagine him getting better than he is from a statistical standpoint. He may improve as an overall player, refine his defensive skills, faceoffs, etc. But I don’t expect his offensive numbers to get better.

Have some kind of source of this 25-30 range?

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