Confirmed Signing with Link: [COL] Avs Sign Devon Toews (4 Years, $4.1M AAV)

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Cap space we don’t need??

Next year, depending on EJ, we’re likely going to be extremely tight to the cap, while losing a player like Saad.

the depth is 100% going to take a hit next year. I’d absolutely rather get Donskoi’s 3.9 M in space to acquire a different 3rd liner in UFA. As can be seen, probably lots of players will be available due to the flat cap, at reasonable prices.

It's not like you're planning on using the cap space to keep someone important. You're making cap space to get someone similar instead of the guy we already have who is more than good enough for the role he's filling. So, no, we don't need the extra cap space. We'll get $3.1m when Graves is selected in the expansion draft, which should be enough.

I also don't buy into the idea that we need to change Donskoi into someone else in order to be successful. He's a good 3rd liner and can move up the lineup if needed. Who exactly are we going to get for $3.9m that is a massive upgrade, to the point where we need to engineer a scenario where Donskoi is the best option available to the Kraken? I'm not seeing many compelling UFAs in 2022 in that price range. It also seems like change for the sake of change, and not really purposeful.

 

[Hasbro]

It's not like you're planning on using the cap space to keep someone important. You're making cap space to get someone similar instead of the guy we already have who is more than good enough for the role he's filling. So, no, we don't need the extra cap space. We'll get $3.1m when Graves is selected in the expansion draft, which should be enough.

I also don't buy into the idea that we need to change Donskoi into someone else in order to be successful. He's a good 3rd liner and can move up the lineup if needed. Who exactly are we going to get for $3.9m that is a massive upgrade, to the point where we need to engineer a scenario where Donskoi is the best option available to the Kraken? I'm not seeing many compelling UFAs in 2022 in that price range. It also seems like change for the sake of change, and not really purposeful.

Next off season you probably could convert $4 million into two good 3rd line UFAs, but if Donskoi stays useful it's not a biggy.

Another reason I think Graves is attractive in the expansion draft: even if Seattle doesn't want him they cn probably flip him for a pick to another team.

 

[NOTENOUGHJTCGOALS]

The Avalanche NEED one of Graves, JTC or Donskoi to go. The expansion draft is the obvious avenue for that to happen for one of them.

I would love for it to be Donskoi or JTC, because I think Graves has the most trade value out of the three. The other two you might have to give away.

Having one of JTC and Dongskoi is useful since they're able to fill in as a second line W if injuries hit. But both are redundant and the cap space should go to a good C.

Having so much money tied up in two third line Ws who aren't exactly good at anything is going to be a problem with the cap.

 

[Richard88]

4 years is the perfect term, as it dove-tails perfectly with Byram's ELC.

If Byram's ELC slides one more year it will expire in 2024 and coincide perfectly with Toews hitting UFA after a 4 year contract, at which point Toews' caphit can simply roll over to Byram.

If Byram's ELC starts this year then Toews would have 1 year to UFA when Byram is up in 2023, in which case Toews could simply be traded as he'd still have decent value with 1 year term left and still at a good caphit.

Overall, the long-term depth chart for Colorado is set up really nicely to deal with expansion and expiring contracts:

Toews -------- Makar
Girard ------- Johnson
Graves ------- Cole

Byram ------- Timmins
Gilbert ------- Barron
Zhuravlyov -- Helleson

In 2021 Seattle will likely pick Graves (the alternative would likely be Compher/Donskoi/Francouz), and Cole will head to UFA. Byram and Timmins would then be promoted to take their places.

Johnson's contract expires in 2023, and by then at least one of Barron/Helleson will likely be ready to make the NHL to take his place. They are both similar big-bodied shutdown types who can directly fill the heavy-minutes role that Johnson will leave.

So long-term:

Byram --- Makar
Girard --- Timmins
Toews --- Barron/Helleson

 

[Jeff Whelbourn]

I'm really confused by the people who are saying this was a bad trade, trading basically 2 60ish overall picks for a top4 dman that plays the exact style of play that your team is looking for?

In the last 10 years the only top 6 players taken around those picks are zucker, trocheck, and kucherov.

What are the odds of landing another kucherov that far down the draft board.

 

[EdAVSfan]

It's not like you're planning on using the cap space to keep someone important. You're making cap space to get someone similar instead of the guy we already have who is more than good enough for the role he's filling. So, no, we don't need the extra cap space. We'll get $3.1m when Graves is selected in the expansion draft, which should be enough.

I also don't buy into the idea that we need to change Donskoi into someone else in order to be successful. He's a good 3rd liner and can move up the lineup if needed. Who exactly are we going to get for $3.9m that is a massive upgrade, to the point where we need to engineer a scenario where Donskoi is the best option available to the Kraken? I'm not seeing many compelling UFAs in 2022 in that price range. It also seems like change for the sake of change, and not really purposeful.

There’s absolutely no guarantee that Seattle takes Graves. For all we know, he may be stapled to the 3rd pair all season and may not have as good a season as this year.

Also, the Avs currently have 26.4 million in cap space next year, with only 12 players signed. Assuming we re-sign Makar, Landeskog and Grubauer, we’re looking at anywhere from 20-23 million. That leaves about 5 million to sign 6-7 players, which is already tight. Even with Graves selected, it leaves us with 8 million but not for 7-8 players.

Also remember, that at that point, we will have lost PEB, Calvert, Cole, and Saad, and will be replacing all of them with prospects and 1M dollar players.

It’s going to be extremely tight unless the Avs move a couple of the mid-tier contracts.

Im just not sure how you can reasonably say that we don’t need cap space. It leaves us with practically no room to manoeuvre, and even if there were some opportunities to acquire good players, we can’t unless we’re shipping off more salary than coming in. I would absolutely hate to have so little flexibility while forcing several prospects into the team all at the same time.

 

[Pure Slaughter Value]

He's getting quite good. 10 points in 22 GP in the playoffs. A good #3 and can play higher

He's a good #3 and that's basically his ceiling. No one is going to see him regularly and think there's first pairing potential there. The Avs got a good player but you should temper expectations. Put him with a reliable stay at home and expect 6g, 30a and some brain-numbing mistakes at crucial times. He fixes the last part of that sentence and he becomes a great #3.

Scott Mayfield could spell Adam Pelech on the first pairing for us but no Islanders fan in their right mind wants to see that experiment for more than a game or two.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

He's a good #3 and that's basically his ceiling. No one is going to see him regularly and think there's first pairing potential there. The Avs got a good player but you should temper expectations. Put him with a reliable stay at home and expect 6g, 30a and some brain-numbing mistakes at crucial times. He fixes the last part of that sentence and he becomes a great #3.

Scott Mayfield could spell Adam Pelech on the first pairing for us but no Islanders fan in their right mind wants to see that experiment for more than a game or two.

What do you think is the cause of the brain-numbing mistakes? Is it too much handling of the puck? Bad breakout passes?

 

[the_fan]

Even if Toews isn't a top pair d-man, doesn't mean Avs can't play him there with Makar. He'll certainly be an upgrade over Graves, and as we saw with Tampa, you can have a 2nd pair guy on your top pair and still win the cup when they had Shattenkirk playing with Hedman

 

[GirardSpinorama]

There’s absolutely no guarantee that Seattle takes Graves. For all we know, he may be stapled to the 3rd pair all season and may not have as good a season as this year.

Also, the Avs currently have 26.4 million in cap space next year, with only 12 players signed. Assuming we re-sign Makar, Landeskog and Grubauer, we’re looking at anywhere from 20-23 million. That leaves about 5 million to sign 6-7 players, which is already tight. Even with Graves selected, it leaves us with 8 million but not for 7-8 players.

The 20 to 23 mill figure to sign Makar, Grubs, Landeskog is pretty damn high. Sakic isn't going to let those three bend him over. 8+7+5
Also remember, that at that point, we will have lost PEB, Calvert, Cole, and Saad, and will be replacing all of them with prospects and 1M dollar players.

It’s going to be extremely tight unless the Avs move a couple of the mid-tier contracts.

Im just not sure how you can reasonably say that we don’t need cap space. It leaves us with practically no room to manoeuvre, and even if there were some opportunities to acquire good players, we can’t unless we’re shipping off more salary than coming in. I would absolutely hate to have so little flexibility while forcing several prospects into the team all at the same time.

Agreed. I don't think Grubs get paid 5+ though if he still plays in our tandem, he gets a very small pay raise to 4 mill. He's gonna have to win the cup and be a stud in the playoffs to ask for more. Its mostly going to have to be internal replacements; but I also see one or two guys getting a pay cut to come back. Bellemare, Calvert, Cole, Saad - I think we lose 2 of 4. I think PEB comes back on another 1 year deal; his conditioning is amazing at his age but I don't see him moving around for slightly more money. Saad isn't getting more than 4 mill unless he blows the door off (see Toffoli contract).

A high priority is that we need to get NHL ice time for our next wave of talents this season. Bowers, Kaut, LOC, Timmins, Gilbert at least 2 of these guys need IMO 15-20+ games next season and stick.

Realistically, I see Bowers-Kaut continue to marinate in the minors (dominate it); LOC, Timmins, Gilbert replace Calvert, Graves, Cole. Saad and PEB stays on short term deals to be replaced by Kaut and Bowers. I doubt Kaut can replace Saad by next year and Bowers might be too good to play as 4th C.

 

[Pure Slaughter Value]

What do you think is the cause of the brain-numbing mistakes? Is it too much handling of the puck? Bad breakout passes?

An inordinate amount of pressure in either zone causes some ill-timed passes and clears. His mistakes were glaring and costly.

It's fixable but it is a problem for someone in the mid 20's. More experience might temper some of those mistakes. Hell, a change of scenery and different system might be the answer. It's all subjective. Trotz runs a strong defense so when something sticks out like Devon's problems it's usually a red flag.

A small minority of fans are happy he's gone because of it. Most of us are going to miss him. Superior skater, a late bloomer and something like ten teammates were at his wedding so he was well-liked.

It's an unfortunate mess that Lamoriello and Snow got us into regarding our cap. More Snow's problem as the Ladd and Boychuk contracts are impossible to move but the pandemis exacerbated those plus the extensions to Lee, Eberle, etc.

As stated in some of my previous posts I'm happy that he's in the western conference. Who wants to be constantly reminded we had to offload young homegrown talent that was starting to pay off because of some bad contracts? Definitely not me.

 

[EdAVSfan]

Agreed. I don't think Grubs get paid 5+ though if he still plays in our tandem, he gets a very small pay raise to 4 mill. He's gonna have to win the cup and be a stud in the playoffs to ask for more. Its mostly going to have to be internal replacements; but I also see one or two guys getting a pay cut to come back. Bellemare, Calvert, Cole, Saad - I think we lose 2 of 4. I think PEB comes back on another 1 year deal; his conditioning is amazing at his age but I don't see him moving around for slightly more money. Saad isn't getting more than 4 mill unless he blows the door off (see Toffoli contract).

A high priority is that we need to get NHL ice time for our next wave of talents this season. Bowers, Kaut, LOC, Timmins, Gilbert at least 2 of these guys need IMO 15-20+ games next season and stick.

Realistically, I see Bowers-Kaut continue to marinate in the minors (dominate it); LOC, Timmins, Gilbert replace Calvert, Graves, Cole. Saad and PEB stays on short term deals to be replaced by Kaut and Bowers. I doubt Kaut can replace Saad by next year and Bowers might be too good to play as 4th C.

There’s simply no money. Not unless contracts are moved out. Saad is one and done.

grubauer is getting more than 4 million, no question. He’s a UFA and can easily get more than that on the market. And it’s not like we can really stingy with him, because any legit starter is going to cost that if not more.

I already showed the numbers. Once we sign Makar landeskog and 5-ish goalie, we literally have 5-6 million dollars to fill out 6 or 7 players. We have no money for Saad. And guys like PEB would literally have to come in at sub-1Million.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

There’s absolutely no guarantee that Seattle takes Graves. For all we know, he may be stapled to the 3rd pair all season and may not have as good a season as this year.

Also, the Avs currently have 26.4 million in cap space next year, with only 12 players signed. Assuming we re-sign Makar, Landeskog and Grubauer, we’re looking at anywhere from 20-23 million. That leaves about 5 million to sign 6-7 players, which is already tight. Even with Graves selected, it leaves us with 8 million but not for 7-8 players.

Also remember, that at that point, we will have lost PEB, Calvert, Cole, and Saad, and will be replacing all of them with prospects and 1M dollar players.

It’s going to be extremely tight unless the Avs move a couple of the mid-tier contracts.

Im just not sure how you can reasonably say that we don’t need cap space. It leaves us with practically no room to manoeuvre, and even if there were some opportunities to acquire good players, we can’t unless we’re shipping off more salary than coming in. I would absolutely hate to have so little flexibility while forcing several prospects into the team all at the same time.

You're absolutely correct that there are no guarantees. Which is why I think that trying to make additional moves in order to try to get Seattle to pick Donskoi (or whoever) is a bad idea. I'm not against making additional moves in general, I just don't think that trying to manufacture an outcome in the expansion draft is a reliable tool to try to use. And we end up with more holes to fill with that plan. I think we protect our best players, let Seattle take who they take, and move forward from there.

I also completely agree that we're going to be tight against the cap, and we're going to lose some good players because we can't afford them. That's the reality of stocking up for a Cup run in the cap era. But, the best way to deal with that is to have a steady supply of prospects to plug in who can contribute while they are still on their ELCs. And we have Kaut (3 years of ELC left), Bowers (2 years left), Byram (3 years left), Annunen (3 years left) and Newhook (3 years left) still coming. Not to mention some other youngsters who will most likely be on cheap RFA contracts. Those guys will be the key for Sakic to make it all work. The question is whether they'll be up to the challenge when we need them to be. And, as you point out, there are a ton of other questions that probably won't be answered until closer to the TDL.

And, no, we don't really need the cap space. Wanting room for maneuver isn't the same as needing the cap space. We have enough talent on ELCs/cheap 2nd contracts coming that we should be OK resigning the guys we absolutely need to keep, and still filling out a decent roster. The nice thing is that biggest concern is our bottom 2 forward lines, so plugging in cheap youngsters like LOC and Bowers isn't the worst thing in the world.

 

[MSLs absurd thighs]

Is Toews really this good? Haven’t heard of him much before this last year

He's a decent D, but the minute Colorado acquired him, he quickly got from severely underrated to severely overrated.

 

[thestonedkoala]

He's a decent D, but the minute Colorado acquired him, he quickly got from severely underrated to severely overrated.

Shh. Don't say that second part too loudly, because as everyone knows Colorado is the non-dirtiest, best team west of the Mississippi River.

 

[EdAVSfan]

He's a decent D, but the minute Colorado acquired him, he quickly got from severely underrated to severely overrated.

Overrated how? He’s considered a 2nd pairing guy who the Avs will attempt to use with Makar. If it works, great. If it doesn’t, he’ll stay on the 2nd.

hes being treated and rated as a 2nd pair guy who might be able to play on the top pair. And he’s paid as such.

where’s the overrated part?

 

[EdAVSfan]

Shh. Don't say that second part too loudly, because as everyone knows Colorado is the non-dirtiest, best team west of the Mississippi River.

No bias here. What the heck is this?

 

[Emell]

Overrated how? He’s considered a 2nd pairing guy who the Avs will attempt to use with Makar. If it works, great. If it doesn’t, he’ll stay on the 2nd.

hes being treated and rated as a 2nd pair guy who might be able to play on the top pair. And he’s paid as such.

where’s the overrated part?

It’s just people getting bitter that this is seen as a great move by the Avs so they’re trying to poke holes in it to feel better

 

[Linds]

Depending on how it shakes out, Las Vegas, Dallas, Minnesota, Nashville, San Jose, St. Louis (depending on how big of an effect Pietroangelo has had on leaving). East, I can't say as much with Columbus, Tampa Bay, and Carolina off the top of my head.

Vegas, Nashville, and San Jose have borderline AHL d men on all of their 3rd pairings

 

[thestonedkoala]

No bias here. What the heck is this?

Everyone ignores that the Avs have been a dirty team. As a Wild fan, bring up any of the dirty hits or stupid things that the Avs have done and we get mocked instead of being a soft team. There is a reason why Minnesota employed Matt Cooke.

Vegas, Nashville, and San Jose have borderline AHL d men on all of their 3rd pairings

Except they have a better top 4.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

There’s simply no money. Not unless contracts are moved out. Saad is one and done.

grubauer is getting more than 4 million, no question. He’s a UFA and can easily get more than that on the market. And it’s not like we can really stingy with him, because any legit starter is going to cost that if not more.

I already showed the numbers. Once we sign Makar landeskog and 5-ish goalie, we literally have 5-6 million dollars to fill out 6 or 7 players. We have no money for Saad. And guys like PEB would literally have to come in at sub-1Million.

I disagree. Grubauer shouldn't get much more than his deal right now since he's only marginally more proven than when he was in Washington (a stud goalie in a tandem). I can't tell the future and I'm pretty damn happy if he plays >50 games next year and go on a long run, but no one is paying 5 mill for a goalie playing less than 40 games atm. I'm budgeting 4 mill until proven otherwise.

 

[S3rkie]

Everyone ignores that the Avs have been a dirty team. As a Wild fan, bring up any of the dirty hits or stupid things that the Avs have done and we get mocked instead of being a soft team. There is a reason why Minnesota employed Matt Cooke.

The avs were trash when the wild signed Cooke, I really doubt NHL GM's are building their roster to beat lottery teams who make the playoffs randomly.

 

[thestonedkoala]

The avs were trash when the wild signed Cooke, I really doubt NHL GM's are building their roster to beat lottery teams who make the playoffs randomly.

So, the Avs didn't win Central in 13-14? The Wild brought in Cooke, because the Wild were getting cheap shotted during the regular season.

 

[S3rkie]

So, the Avs didn't win Central in 13-14? The Wild brought in Cooke, because the Wild were getting cheap shotted during the regular season.

If you watched that Avs team and thought they were playing good sound hockey I think you need to reassess how you watch the game. There was a reason that group shortly after had a 48pt season.

Matt Cooke was signed for "veteran leadership" after winning with Pitt. He even bullshitted his story about how that stuff wasn't a part of his game anymore. Sounds to me like a dumb signing thinking he's the last piece on a cup team, after they got Parise and Suter.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Except they have a better top 4.

They might have an arguably better top pairing, because Graves isn't great. But, I'll take Girard-Toews or Girard-EJ over any of their 2nd pairings. And third pairings aren't even close. And none of them have a Byram level prospect coming.