Clayton Keller

[azcanuck]

He should move in with (or shadow) Grabner for a while this off season

Yea get some muscle's from Mr. Muscle himself. Too bad Grabner doesnt use his strength a little more on the ice.

 

[Canis Latrans]

There's always the possibility that bulking up too much negates too much of his speed while skating. That's what happened to Peter Mueller after his first season I believe. Or at least some of his slumping was attributed to that. I don't know how true that really was, but I'm sure there's a proper balance to maintain that the training staff should be aware of. He's also 20, so it may be a matter of simply continuing to grow (not necessarily in height).

 

[MIGs Dog]

There's always the possibility that bulking up too much negates too much of his speed while skating. That's what happened to Peter Mueller after his first season I believe. Or at least some of his slumping was attributed to that. I don't know how true that really was, but I'm sure there's a proper balance to maintain that the training staff should be aware of. He's also 20, so it may be a matter of simply continuing to grow (not necessarily in height).

So Grabner would be even faster if he lost some muscle? I honestly don't think there is any truth to the "bulking up slows you down" rumor. In track, the sprinters are the most muscular. In cycling, the sprinters are also the most muscular.

I suppose if all the muscle went to your upper body and you had puny legs that might be true.

 

[Imaravencawcaw]

So Grabner would be even faster if he lost some muscle? I honestly don't think there is any truth to the "bulking up slows you down" rumor. In track, the sprinters are the most muscular. In cycling, the sprinters are also the most muscular.

I suppose if all the muscle went to your upper body and you had puny legs that might be true.

Sprinters go one direction until the competition is over. In general the laws of physics say its harder to stop and start the bigger you are unless all that mass went into the muscles that start and stop you.

 

[MIGs Dog]

unless all that mass went into the muscles that start and stop you.

Right. We're talking about adding muscle all over.

Clayton is listed at 5'10" and 170lbs. I suspect both numbers are inflated. Realistically he could add 5 lbs of muscle in the offseason. 5 lbs of muscle distributed across his body will make him stronger in all aspects of his game and not slow either his speed or quickness.

The goal is not for Keller to look like Grabner, but at his age adding muscle mass is a normal progression for a pro athlete.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

I honestly don't think there is any truth to the "bulking up slows you down" rumor.

Peter Mueller's very existence belies your assertion here.

 

[rt]

Peter Mueller's very existence belies your assertion here.

I remember Doan getting too big also and deciding to shed some weight. Derek Morris said getting leaner helped prolong his effectiveness too. I feel like there was a bit of a trend of guys who decided to do less body building stuff and get leaner and quicker.

 

[Neighborhood Coyote]

I definitely feel that quickness is very important in today's game. More important to some players than top end speed... if you're one of those guys who's just never going to blow the wheels off of another player with your top end speed, being quick to get into position can take care of that issue both offensively and defensively. Just being able to get to new spots on the ice a bit faster can make a world of difference.

That's the difference between speed and quickness. Speed is the guy who can straight line out skate other players in a foot race and get more breakaways/etc. Quickness is the guy who gets open a lot in the zone because the defender can't turn as fast as he can or explode to those spots to cover him.

I don't think Keller has a ton of top end speed, he's got more quickness to his game and when he's playing well he's quick. Or at least that's what I've seen this season with his game. Not saying he is slow, either... just that his strength isn't being fast as much as it is being agile/quick.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

I remember Doan getting too big also and deciding to shed some weight. Derek Morris said getting leaner helped prolong his effectiveness too. I feel like there was a bit of a trend of guys who decided to do less body building stuff and get leaner and quicker.

I don't think I've ever seen a player crater as hard as Mueller did, though. Seems to me his entire game was based on his agility, thanks to being whip-thin and light (a precursor to the "new" NHL). I still don't know if it was Tippett or his agent or whoever told him to bulk up so that he could play more effective two-way hockey, but it absolutely killed Mueller's game - murdered it, honestly - and that, on top of his concussions, ended his career prematurely.

 

[BUX7PHX]

I definitely feel that quickness is very important in today's game. More important to some players than top end speed... if you're one of those guys who's just never going to blow the wheels off of another player with your top end speed, being quick to get into position can take care of that issue both offensively and defensively. Just being able to get to new spots on the ice a bit faster can make a world of difference.

That's the difference between speed and quickness. Speed is the guy who can straight line out skate other players in a foot race and get more breakaways/etc. Quickness is the guy who gets open a lot in the zone because the defender can't turn as fast as he can or explode to those spots to cover him.

I don't think Keller has a ton of top end speed, he's got more quickness to his game and when he's playing well he's quick. Or at least that's what I've seen this season with his game. Not saying he is slow, either... just that his strength isn't being fast as much as it is being agile/quick.

Better to be quick than fast...

Part of the "quickness" thought isn't just physically, either. You have to have mental quickness with the way that the game has evolved. Making decisions at a faster pace and recognizing situations and demands at a quicker processing rate is a big key as well.

The better to be quick than fast mantra is even more pronounced at the highest level. In grade school/secondary education, the really good players are already miles ahead of their peers in some direction, but when every player in the NHL generally can skate blue line to blue line in a similar amount of time, it's the change of direction skills that define the greats.

 

[Ebb]

It's more where you bulk up that would make the difference. You can, after all, target muscle groups to particular areas you want to improve in a professionally designed program. For example, Grabner's abs are practically useless to improving his hockey skills (I believe--I've never played hockey).

 

[Canis Latrans]

It's more where you bulk up that would make the difference. You can, after all, target muscle groups to particular areas you want to improve in a professionally designed program. For example, Grabner's abs are practically useless to improving his hockey skills (I believe--I've never played hockey).

Abs are important for everything. They stabilize everything. It’s like taking a swing in baseball where you don’t just swing with your arms, but propel up from the ground into your rotating hips, core, shoulders, and down your arms and finally into the wrists. I’m sure it’s even more pronounced maintaining one’s balance on ice.

 

[Matias Maccete]

Abs are important for everything. They stabilize everything. It’s like taking a swing in baseball where you don’t just swing with your arms, but propel up from the ground into your rotating hips, core, shoulders, and down your arms and finally into the wrists. I’m sure it’s even more pronounced maintaining one’s balance on ice.

There was an article in the athletic today about slot receivers in the NFL, and Julian Edelman apparently has great balance due to his insane core strength.

 

[cromag27]

to me, this season keller was = soft like dough, meek like kitten and afraid of puck. i’m not sure if he lost some confidence early on or what, but he didn’t seem very aggressive. he’s sometimes amazing with his puck handling, but that often lead to turnovers. sometimes less is more. i believe his performance this season was more mental than lacking in any physical department.

i did want him to be scratched several months ago just to send a message. not sure if they’re handling him with kid gloves or what.

maybe the early talk about “no sophomore slump” actually created a sophomore slump.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

It's all about the weight. Added muscle gains an athlete strength but IMO rarely gains him speed. If Keller puts on 5-10 pounds of muscle weight, he will be that much stronger, but also that much slower.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

to me, this season keller was = soft like dough, meek like kitten and afraid of puck. i’m not sure if he lost some confidence early on or what, but he didn’t seem very aggressive. he’s sometimes amazing with his puck handling, but that often lead to turnovers. sometimes less is more. i believe his performance this season was more mental than lacking in any physical department.

i did want him to be scratched several months ago just to send a message. not sure if they’re handling him with kid gloves or what.

maybe the early talk about “no sophomore slump” actually created a sophomore slump.

I agree. Keller doesn't need bigger muscles. He needs a bigger set.

 

[YotesFan47]

Its not the muscle mass entirely but how you train and build muscle. There is fast twitch and slow twitch training you can do while building muscles which can bring different results to how quickly you can preform and action or how long you can endure an action. Depending on a lot of conditions, you need to mix your training in a way that allows your body to build and regenerate the muscle fibers required for those actions. I don't know enough about the training involved so I wont go into any potentially false details but the bottom line is Keller can gain mass without negatively impacting his speed. The larger issue with mobility and adding too much mass is the control in turning and flexibility.

For those unfamiliar, you use your shoulders to control turning. if you can't twist as far because your muscles are too large for your frame, you wont be able to make as sharp a turn. A great deal of the control in hockey actually comes from a low center of gravity and your core muscles. These muscles are a big deal for someone reliant on their ability to make tight maneuvers and maintain balance through checks. The only reasons to work out your legs for hockey (outside of added protection to important parts in the legs) is to increase your first few steps and maintain a strong base to control the weight in the upper body.

 

[TheLegend]

I honestly don't think there is any truth to the "bulking up slows you down" rumor.

OEL says hello.

 

[TheLegend]

There are different ways to “bulk up”.

One is the Mr. Olympia way where you simply add mass and can’t get out of the way of the locomotive you can drag by your teeth..... and another where you balance it with tone.

Keller could use the latter some. But I wouldn’t do it to the point where he’s starring in a Conan sequel.

 

[cobra427]

Its not the muscle mass entirely but how you train and build muscle. There is fast twitch and slow twitch training you can do while building muscles which can bring different results to how quickly you can preform and action or how long you can endure an action. Depending on a lot of conditions, you need to mix your training in a way that allows your body to build and regenerate the muscle fibers required for those actions. I don't know enough about the training involved so I wont go into any potentially false details but the bottom line is Keller can gain mass without negatively impacting his speed. The larger issue with mobility and adding too much mass is the control in turning and flexibility.

For those unfamiliar, you use your shoulders to control turning. if you can't twist as far because your muscles are too large for your frame, you wont be able to make as sharp a turn. A great deal of the control in hockey actually comes from a low center of gravity and your core muscles. These muscles are a big deal for someone reliant on their ability to make tight maneuvers and maintain balance through checks. The only reasons to work out your legs for hockey (outside of added protection to important parts in the legs) is to increase your first few steps and maintain a strong base to control the weight in the upper body.

Agreed. Keller doesn’t need to bulk up, it will slow him down. Core strength and core mobility is so important in many sports but especially hockey. Strengthen the core first and speed/quickness will pick up.

 

[CLW]

It's all about the weight. Added muscle gains an athlete strength but IMO rarely gains him speed. If Keller puts on 5-10 pounds of muscle weight, he will be that much stronger, but also that much slower.

No. Look at 100 meter runners at the Olympics. Big, beefy muscular guys. Look at the thighs on the skaters at the Winter Olympics.

Keller needs a stronger core, more strength and more explosivity. He is not in college anymore.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

No. Look at 100 meter runners at the Olympics. Big, beefy muscular guys. Look at the thighs on the skaters at the Winter Olympics.

Keller needs a stronger core, more strength and more explosivity. He is not in college anymore.

He needs a much quicker release as well. Much quicker. He winds up like a pitcher out of the stretch.

 

[NORiculous]

Has the playoffs changed some of the negative opinions?

 

[rt]

Has the playoffs changed some of the negative opinions?

Yes.

 

[Fuhrious]

Only for people not old enough to remember John Druce...