Player Discussion Christian Jaros

[stempniaksen]

I don't think this has been the case though

Batherson. 2 games. Not ready. See ya. Return trip averaged over 15. Looked great

Brown. Started off with great ice. Just my opinion but i don't believe his ice time dropped due to mistakes, rather i think it dropped due to consistency in his compete level. Good on them for getting himnoutbif there

Chaplik. He's not ever going to be a top 6 C. He's getting 4th line ice which is his future. Lots of guys questioned his being here at all over more "deserving" guys in the A. My take is he was more ready for his role than other guys. He's never going to be a 15 minute a night guy.

Balcers. Has only had emergency call ups. Let's see how it goes fown the stretch. I'm expecting 14 minutes a night and some PP time to see what he can do.

White? He's been given plenty of opportunity. Hasn't seized it. Injuries to start. Confidence shot at this point

And the young D. They weren't getting ice to begin with. I don't think DJ sees them as potential NHLers down the line

I don't disagree with what you said. That happens. I just haven't seen it here myself. Who am i missing?

I just disagree with your takes on White, Brown, Chlapik and Balcers. Personally I would have liked to see them get a more consistent opportunity (this is more true in White's case though). If they come back the way Batherson did it won't make a lick of a difference though, since DJ will be vindicated in his approach.

I also strongly disagree on Brannstrom, to me that's the most glaring example of DJ's inability to change his style to the betterment of the player. Brannstrom (among a handful of others) is a key piece of the rebuild. Messing with him has much bigger (potential) repercussions than screwing with the Chlapik/Lajoie's of the world. I'm not gonna disagree with you on Lajoie/Jaros though, who look like they've both missed their best opportunities to become full-time NHL'ers.

I gravitate towards coaches who nurture the young talent they have and let them make mistakes as they learn. It's an approach I wish DJ showed a bit more of from time to time. I'm certainly willing to see what his particular style of development does for the kids though. If they all go back to AHL with a clear idea of what they need to work on and are able to come back to the NHL without those warts then DJ has this team headed down the right path.

 

[aragorn]

So we're going to blame the coach again? How about the fact that some of these flash & dash players don't play well defensively & the fact that we hear it said all the time that coaches want players who can play a 200' game. Fans want flash & dash players to play & don't care about preventing goals as much, but coaches want players who can also prevent goals against. I bet the vast majority of people on here would rather see Balcers than Paul, but Paul plays a very good defensive game & the coach has come to trust him because of it. I think the problem is that so many of these flash & dash players have never been asked to play a more defensive game until they get to the pros & just aren't used to it & have to learn it in the AHL before they are NHL ready.

IMO Smith has been fine given the players he has been given to play & it's year one of the rebuild, this is going to take a few yrs whether people like it or not. Hainsey, Boro, Ryan, Anisimov & Zaitsev will all eventually be gone, let's hope their replacements have as good a career as they have had & last as long. Every coach in the NHL trusts veteran players over young players & would rather play them until a young player proves he deserves the coaches trust. They all want players who play the right way which translates to mean the way the coach wants them to play & not take unnecessary risks.

 

[tardigrade81]

So we're going to blame the coach again? How about the fact that some of these flash & dash players don't play well defensively & the fact that we hear it said all the time that coaches want players who can play a 200' game. Fans want flash & dash players to play & don't care about preventing goals as much, but coaches want players who can also prevent goals against. I bet the vast majority of people on here would rather see Balcers than Paul, but Paul plays a very good defensive game & the coach has come to trust him because of it. I think the problem is that so many of these flash & dash players have never been asked to play a more defensive game until they get to the pros & just aren't used to it & have to learn it in the AHL before they are NHL ready.

IMO Smith has been fine given the players he has been given to play & it's year one of the rebuild, this is going to take a few yrs whether people like it or not. Hainsey, Boro, Ryan, Anisimov & Zaitsev will all eventually be gone, let's hope their replacements have as good a career as they have had & last as long. Every coach in the NHL trusts veteran players over young players & would rather play them until a young player proves he deserves the coaches trust. They all want players who play the right way which translates to mean the way the coach wants them to play & not take unnecessary risks.

Easier to blame the coach though lol.

 

[JD1]

I just disagree with your takes on White, Brown, Chlapik and Balcers. Personally I would have liked to see them get a more consistent opportunity (this is more true in White's case though). If they come back the way Batherson did it won't make a lick of a difference though, since DJ will be vindicated in his approach.

I also strongly disagree on Brannstrom, to me that's the most glaring example of DJ's inability to change his style to the betterment of the player. Brannstrom (among a handful of others) is a key piece of the rebuild. Messing with him has much bigger (potential) repercussions than screwing with the Chlapik/Lajoie's of the world. I'm not gonna disagree with you on Lajoie/Jaros though, who look like they've both missed their best opportunities to become full-time NHL'ers.

I gravitate towards coaches who nurture the young talent they have and let them make mistakes as they learn. It's an approach I wish DJ showed a bit more of from time to time. I'm certainly willing to see what his particular style of development does for the kids though. If they all go back to AHL with a clear idea of what they need to work on and are able to come back to the NHL without those warts then DJ has this team headed down the right path.

White's average TOI is 15:34. How has he been stapled to the bench?

Brown averaged 11:45. And he started higher and dropped. That can be a case of bench stapling but i thought it was just a compete thing which is a criticism that has followed him around.

Chaplik is getting 8:46. Is it the up and down you don't like or the ice time? Because given he's likely destined for a 4c role, 8:46 is hardly nailing a guy to the bench that's a 4th liner

With Brannstrom i would have preferred to see him on his preferred side. Otherwise the ice opportunities he got were fine

Balcers is the one guy that really hasn't been given a shot. He's yo yo'd up and down but to me that's been a circumstance thing. Let's hope he gets a 14 minute a night shot thru to the end of the year

 

[stempniaksen]

White's average TOI is 15:34. How has he been stapled to the bench? I have an issue with DJ's handling of White beyond the minutes. The time on the wing, the (sometimes) awful linemates, ect. I'd have gone with a vastly different approach to develop CW this season. Not saying I'd be right, but it's pretty easy to see that whatever DJ is doing isn't working either.

Brown averaged 11:45. And he started higher and dropped. That can be a case of bench stapling but i thought it was just a compete thing which is a criticism that has followed him around. It's possible these two just won't work together. Brown is the type of player that screams "let this guy make his mistakes and figure it out" because playing him 9-11 minutes on the 4th line (with less than stellar finishers) isn't how this guy is going to get better. He seems too good for the NHL and not good enough for DJ's top-nine and I'm not sure DJ sticking to his guns is the best course of action for this kid.

Chaplik is getting 8:46. Is it the up and down you don't like or the ice time? Because given he's likely destined for a 4c role, 8:46 is hardly nailing a guy to the bench that's a 4th liner. Both, honestly. I'm not convinced his ceiling is a 4th liner, and there's no harm giving him some more minutes to see what we have in him (before the other kids come up and his shot at playing higher in the lineup evaporates)

With Brannstrom i would have preferred to see him on his preferred side. Otherwise the ice opportunities he got were fine. The side issue is a big deal to me. I'm not sure why PD and DJS seem so intent on turning this kid into a lefty. I also don't love that he was stapled with Hainsey a lot of the time (I realize this had to do with sticking him on the left as well). The issue I have with DJ's handling of Brann isn't the minutes, it's the opportunities and commitment to consistently play him, even after a mistake (similar to my issues with White's treatment)

Balcers is the one guy that really hasn't been given a shot. He's yo yo'd up and down but to me that's been a circumstance thing. Let's hope he gets a 14 minute a night shot thru to the end of the year He's yo yo'd around, which is out of DJ's hands, but I would have liked to see him get more of an opportunity when he has been up (2 points in 3 games where he averaged 10:30 or more in a game, 0 points in 6 games when averaging less)

I answered in bold, cause it really is a case by case issue. I think my biggest problem with DJ is that he's treated player development the same across the board, regardless of whether a guy is looking to be developed as scoring option or a grinder DJ seems to have the same approach. I don't think that will ultimately benefit some of the more skilled guys (specifically thinking of Brown, Brannstrom and Balcers here) but I'm open minded enough to wait and find out. If Brown comes back and plays the way Batherson has been since he was (re)called up I'll be more than happy to eat some crow.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Young player plays
Young player makes mistake
Young player stapled to the bench
Young player ends up with 6-10 minutes of ice-time

There's not surefire (singular) way to develop talent, so some of the kids could still be developing despite the limited ice-times. I'd say his "development" style is hindering a few of our players in the short term though (yet to be determined what the long term effects are).

There's a line of thinking that young players develop through trial and error, through trying new things offensively and playing loose and free. Obviously DJS doesn't abide by that line of thinking and approaches coaching the team differently.

It's just a different strokes for different folks approach to development, imo. No one is wrong (or right) at this stage of the game, given that's it too early to tell how his coaching has affected the young guys.

Again, this is assuming that the kids ice time is actually being CUT due to mistakes. More likely, if listen to what the coach says about he various kids, the ice time is being managed based on where they are at in their development, and based on what the staff feel that they can handle while being effective. We’re not seeing kids get benched or have their ice time cut, we’re seeing consistent ice time game to game.

Claiming that guys are having their confidence ruined by the coach is contrary to everything the young players have been saying all year, but hey some of our posters coach local kids so they have it all sorted out.

 

[Ice-Tray]

I just disagree with your takes on White, Brown, Chlapik and Balcers. Personally I would have liked to see them get a more consistent opportunity (this is more true in White's case though). If they come back the way Batherson did it won't make a lick of a difference though, since DJ will be vindicated in his approach.

I also strongly disagree on Brannstrom, to me that's the most glaring example of DJ's inability to change his style to the betterment of the player. Brannstrom (among a handful of others) is a key piece of the rebuild. Messing with him has much bigger (potential) repercussions than screwing with the Chlapik/Lajoie's of the world. I'm not gonna disagree with you on Lajoie/Jaros though, who look like they've both missed their best opportunities to become full-time NHL'ers.

I gravitate towards coaches who nurture the young talent they have and let them make mistakes as they learn. It's an approach I wish DJ showed a bit more of from time to time. I'm certainly willing to see what his particular style of development does for the kids though. If they all go back to AHL with a clear idea of what they need to work on and are able to come back to the NHL without those warts then DJ has this team headed down the right path.

I love how you’ve come to these conclusions based on ice time, but with a complete lack of any of the relevant information used to produce that outcome.

Also interesting when all kinds of other evidence points to him being the exact kind of coach you wish he was, like the words that come out of players’ mouths...

Strange, but I guess I shouldn’t be surprised that we have all kinds of NHL development specialists in here to go along with all of the other specialists!

 

[Ice-Tray]

So we're going to blame the coach again? How about the fact that some of these flash & dash players don't play well defensively & the fact that we hear it said all the time that coaches want players who can play a 200' game. Fans want flash & dash players to play & don't care about preventing goals as much, but coaches want players who can also prevent goals against. I bet the vast majority of people on here would rather see Balcers than Paul, but Paul plays a very good defensive game & the coach has come to trust him because of it. I think the problem is that so many of these flash & dash players have never been asked to play a more defensive game until they get to the pros & just aren't used to it & have to learn it in the AHL before they are NHL ready.

IMO Smith has been fine given the players he has been given to play & it's year one of the rebuild, this is going to take a few yrs whether people like it or not. Hainsey, Boro, Ryan, Anisimov & Zaitsev will all eventually be gone, let's hope their replacements have as good a career as they have had & last as long. Every coach in the NHL trusts veteran players over young players & would rather play them until a young player proves he deserves the coaches trust. They all want players who play the right way which translates to mean the way the coach wants them to play & not take unnecessary risks.

Our most flashy players in Ennis and Duclair played top 6 minutes, PP, and PK the whole season.

Everyone loves guys with skill, they just have to also buy in to playing responsible D and continue to contribute to team success when they don’t have the puck on their stick.

It’s why I don’t get the couple dudes in here hating on DJ. I can’t think of a single player on the team that’s getting unjust ice time.

We just brought up Batherson and he’s getting top six playtime, and when Norris was up he was centring our best players as well, which DJ wanted from him, which isn’t saying much right now of course

Jaros is not a top 4 NHL defenceman right now at all. It seems like a no brainer to see if he can manage protected bottom pairing minutes before force feeding him more, or chucking him into the deep end and letting him flounder cause ‘it’s teaching...’

Bring them along slowly they cried.... We’re bringing them along too slowly they now cry....

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Care to explain how his bench utilization can deflate a player's confidence?

Who do I have to explain it to?

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

He looked terrific last night. Really rooting for this guy. Plays with a lot of heart.

 

[JungleBeat]

Better than anybody not named Chabot.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

He looked terrific last night. Really rooting for this guy. Plays with a lot of heart.

how long was he on the ice

 

[Bileur]

I like brining Jaros along slowly, but I don’t understand how someone could say he doesn’t have what it takes to play in the league. He showed last season that he does. He just needs development. His hockey sense is questionable for now, still he can play bottom pair.

My biggest current concern with DJ is that he will run Chabot into the ground during a season which means absolutely nothing.

We shouldn’t be putting all these hard miles on him, particularly now, after the deadline when we’re aiming to get the highest pick possible.

They should cap Chabot at 25 mins. If Jaros and England need to be sheltered then by all means run Hainsey into the ground.

I've been (relatively) critical of DJ this season, and even I can admit he's probably the best coach this team has had since Murray. Lots of time for this to change obviously, but it doesn't feel like this is going to be his only kick at the can (the way it ended up being for so many Sens coaches before him). As far as implementing a system I think he's done a better job than any of his predecessors, minus Boucher Year 1, but unlike Boucher he doesn't seem like someone that will be tuned out in Year 2. He's getting this rag tag group to play the right way, if that can translate to a more talented team (in 2-3 years) playing this hard/heavy style this team will be in great shape.

Just saying.

 

[BatherSeason]

Claiming that guys are having their confidence ruined by the coach is contrary to everything the young players have been saying all year, but hey some of our posters coach local kids so they have it all sorted out.

Strange, but I guess I shouldn’t be surprised that we have all kinds of NHL development specialists in here to go along with all of the other specialists!

Bring them along slowly they cried.... We’re bringing them along too slowly they now cry....

Your subtle bait and troll attempts are weak...I guess only one opinion matters. Crying about people complaining makes you a complainer as well.

The key to this season was the development of the young players at the NHL level. In my opinion, the only player who has really developed here with the Sens this year is Tkachuk and the argument can be mad that he would have developed regardless of who was coaching. Nick Paul has progressed well, but the argument could be made that he already was a player, yet Guy Boucher never gave him an opportunity. Everyone else seems to get stuck in the mud once they get DJed.

Don't get me wrong, I think DJ Smith has this team competing on a nightly basis and has done a great job with the lineup he has been given, but he has coached to win games, which is what he is supposed to do, but not this year. This was to be a development year, a chance for the young kids to play and to grow and they haven't. DJ wasn't hired to develop Connor Brown, Boro and Duclair. Next year will be huge considering with the current contract situation, it looks like the Sens may have no choice but to promote 5-10 young players from Belleville. I am interested to see how DJ handles them.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

how long was he on the ice

No where near enough. 9 mins only but looked effective in those limited roles.

Im confused why we don't play him more. More development for him + better for the tank.

 

[Ice-Tray]

No where near enough. 9 mins only but looked effective in those limited roles.

Im confused why we don't play him more. More development for him + better for the tank.

More ice time doesn’t necessarily equal more development though.

You need to master the ice time you have before gaining more responsibility.

I think DJ wants Jaros working in his comfort zone to get his game and head going.

 

[Korpse]

I like brining Jaros along slowly, but I don’t understand how someone could say he doesn’t have what it takes to play in the league. He showed last season that he does. He just needs development. His hockey sense is questionable for now, still he can play bottom pair.

He shows some really nice glimpses and the tools are there. I was really on his bandwagon when he came overseas, I was really impressed but his play in his own zone leaves a lot to be desired. He is just so chaotic, so unpredictable and for a player who needs to make a living as a defensive minded player that is a huge concern. He can make tough stretch passes, he skates pretty well and thats good but he needs to take that step on the defensive side and I'm not sure he has made much progress

 

[JD1]

He shows some really nice glimpses and the tools are there. I was really on his bandwagon when he came overseas, I was really impressed but his play in his own zone leaves a lot to be desired. He is just so chaotic, so unpredictable and for a player who needs to make a living as a defensive minded player that is a huge concern. He can make tough stretch passes, he skates pretty well and thats good but he needs to take that step on the defensive side and I'm not sure he has made much progress

No he hasn't made kuch progress and that's why he's not had much of a shot this year

 

[JD1]

I like brining Jaros along slowly, but I don’t understand how someone could say he doesn’t have what it takes to play in the league. He showed last season that he does. He just needs development. His hockey sense is questionable for now, still he can play bottom pair.

My biggest current concern with DJ is that he will run Chabot into the ground during a season which means absolutely nothing.

We shouldn’t be putting all these hard miles on him, particularly now, after the deadline when we’re aiming to get the highest pick possible.

They should cap Chabot at 25 mins. If Jaros and England need to be sheltered then by all means run Hainsey into the ground.

Just saying.

Have you seen Chabot skate? He's a truly elite skater who the overused "skates effortlessly" tag actually applies. He's young. He recovers quick. He's not being run into the ground. He might play more effectively with less minutes but run into the ground....no...and he wants the ice-time

 

[derriko]

I have never once doubted that Jaros will be a very solid, physical, toolsy #4. Nothing that has happened this year has changed my opinion on that.

He does need to clean up his d-zone play, but his toolbox is too good to not be a full time NHL’er here very soon.

Wolanin/ Brannstrom - Jaros would be a nice option coming in to next year. And hopefully one of JBD or Thomson relegate Jaros to the third pair in the next 2-3 years.

Best case scenario, a bottom pairing of something like Lajoie-Jaros means your team has very solid depth.

 

[Bileur]

Have you seen Chabot skate? He's a truly elite skater who the overused "skates effortlessly" tag actually applies. He's young. He recovers quick. He's not being run into the ground. He might play more effectively with less minutes but run into the ground....no...and he wants the ice-time

Yes, I have seen him skate.

Are you aware that there are two teams on the ice and hockey is a contact sport? Have you considered that effortlessly skating an additional 5-10 minutes per game in a season doomed to failure unnecessarily exposes Chabot to hits and contact which can result in injury?

Have you considered that the generational defenseman we traded away last season was an even more exceptional skater and that he is now a shadow of his former self due to injuries?

Did you notice Chabot effortlessly skating to retrieve a puck the other night and getting hit by Gallagher hurting his knee? Thankfully it wasn’t serious, but why in heck would you want to expose a guy to further risk of injury this year?

Have you considered that overplaying an athlete can not only lead to physical fatigue but mental fatigue, leading to more mistakes and less focussed play on the ice? Do you think this is best for his development? I’d argue fewer minutes with a fresher Chabot would be better.

Most importantly, what is there to gain from playing Chabot 35 minutes a game?

 

[Bileur]

He shows some really nice glimpses and the tools are there. I was really on his bandwagon when he came overseas, I was really impressed but his play in his own zone leaves a lot to be desired. He is just so chaotic, so unpredictable and for a player who needs to make a living as a defensive minded player that is a huge concern. He can make tough stretch passes, he skates pretty well and thats good but he needs to take that step on the defensive side and I'm not sure he has made much progress

Fair enough. Agree to disagree.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

So Jaros <> Chabot so sit him out in tough situations in favor of Zaitsev, and Hainsery so he can learn from watching and feel good that he is getting on when he is. Feeling like the coach doesn't trust him is his issue that he will have to deal with... after all the stakes this year are huge. But he is , or should be too feeble minded to understand the stakes at this stage of the season. We understand ... GO DJ

 

[JD1]

Yes, I have seen him skate.

Are you aware that there are two teams on the ice and hockey is a contact sport? Have you considered that effortlessly skating an additional 5-10 minutes per game in a season doomed to failure unnecessarily exposes Chabot to hits and contact which can result in injury?

Have you considered that the generational defenseman we traded away last season was an even more exceptional skater and that he is now a shadow of his former self due to injuries?

Did you notice Chabot effortlessly skating to retrieve a puck the other night and getting hit by Gallagher hurting his knee? Thankfully it wasn’t serious, but why in heck would you want to expose a guy to further risk of injury this year?

Have you considered that overplaying an athlete can not only lead to physical fatigue but mental fatigue, leading to more mistakes and less focussed play on the ice? Do you think this is best for his development? I’d argue fewer minutes with a fresher Chabot would be better.

Most importantly, what is there to gain from playing Chabot 35 minutes a game?

Well he isn't playing 35 a night is he?

Chabot is averaging a couple of ticks less than 26 minutes a night and there is nothing remarkable about that amount of ice time.
Someone has to lead the league in ice-time. It's always a Dman. Actually it's always a pmd dman. Someone who qualifies as an effortless skater which Chabot does.

If you want to go back and look at ice time leaders over the past say 20 years, what you will find is that 26 minutes a night is actually low for the league's ice time leader, so there isn't anything remarkable about his TOI.

Yes i saw the hit on Chabot the other night against Calgary. We can't really take hitting out of the game. But here was my take in the Chabot's injured thread

The Athletic trainers would be able to assess potential severity right away and they let him go back out....so id say he has a sore knee from bonking it on the boards

 

[Bileur]

Well he isn't playing 35 a night is he?

Chabot is averaging a couple of ticks less than 26 minutes a night and there is nothing remarkable about that amount of ice time.
Someone has to lead the league in ice-time. It's always a Dman. Actually it's always a pmd dman. Someone who qualifies as an effortless skater which Chabot does.

If you want to go back and look at ice time leaders over the past say 20 years, what you will find is that 26 minutes a night is actually low for the league's ice time leader, so there isn't anything remarkable about his TOI.

Yes i saw the hit on Chabot the other night against Calgary. We can't really take hitting out of the game. But here was my take in the Chabot's injured thread

I’ve got no problem with Chabot leading the team, or even the league in ice time in 2022 or 2023 when we will supposedly be competing for the playoffs.

As my first post indicated, my beef is with playing him that much in a season which means nothing and « particularly after the deadline ».

Let’s look at Chabot’s recent games:

Preds: 32:36
Jackets:32:47
Canadiens: 4:22 (game before the deadline, hurt in the first period)

This is my concern. Why are we playing Chabot 30+ minutes, in a season where we are 3rd last, after the trade deadline where we confirmed we are in a full rebuild and that a top pick would be most beneficial to us.

What is the benefit to the sens or Chabot?