NBA Chicago Bulls discussion thread.

[BKIslandersFan]

Indoor soccer team outdrew the Bulls before Jordan?

They should have moved the team.

 

[EpochLink]

Holy shit was Scottie Pippen underpaid during his time with the Bulls..

 

[clydesdale line]

First night of the documentary and I forgot how much I hated Jerry Reinsdorf and Jerry Krause.

 

[GKJ]

I’m glad they’re covering a lot of the stuff from the 80s because so often the story of Jordan and the Bulls is the UNC team in 1982, the draft, sometimes the 63-point game in 1986 and it fast forwards to 1991. I had no idea all that went on after the injury.

 

[HisIceness]

Unpopular opinion. I just want to see the behind-the-scenes stuff from that year (1997-98).

 

[clydesdale line]

Even DWade knows.

 

[HisIceness]

Even DWade knows.

Somewhere, Skip Bayless is grinning ear to ear, ready to unleash on Shannon Sharpe tomorrow.

I mean he already was, but now this gives him more ammo.

 

[EpochLink]

I’m glad they’re covering a lot of the stuff from the 80s because so often the story of Jordan and the Bulls is the UNC team in 1982, the draft, sometimes the 63-point game in 1986 and it fast forwards to 1991. I had no idea all that went on after the injury.

They will be covering the bad boy era, so from 87-90 the Pistons were a thorn in the Bulls backside. That episode is next week..

 

[GKJ]

Wade is from Chicago, so...

 

[pb1300]

Wade is from Chicago, so...

And he is good friends and a former teammate of LBJ, so it evens things out.

 

[Power Man]

Unpopular opinion. I just want to see the behind-the-scenes stuff from that year (1997-98).

Me too
But I think the early career segments laid the background to gove more context to MJ and Pippen’s behaviours in 97-98

They will do the same in the Rodman episode and explain where he’s coming from

I think it’s geared towards people who didn’t watch basketball in the 90s it gives them context

 

[Power Man]

It was funny to see math teachers like Carlisle and Ainge guarding Jordan or DJ - who even though he was a great defender - didn’t have 1/10th of the athleticism or speed young MJ had

The NBA jas evolved for the better tbh

 

[NJDevs26]

Holy shit was Scottie Pippen underpaid during his time with the Bulls..

LOL

 

[SouthGeorge]

It was good but I don't like the pacing and jumping all around.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

 

[clydesdale line]

Not surprising.

Floyd: Krause wanted to blow up Bulls earlier

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Blatant copy and paste of a post I made on HFHawks....

Watched the first two episodes last night. Thoroughly enjoyed it. Now, a couple things to note:

It's very important to realize that this is, so far, coming with a very pro-MJ tilt, and he's had a very acrimonious relationship for years with Krause prior to his death, so while I have no doubt that it was foolish for him to really be so obviously eager to blow it up, we are so far getting just the opinions of people that didn't like him with the occasional compliment sandwich in there. The stated breaking point of Krause not wanting to risk MJ's career on rushing him back too early just seems like a no duh move to me that it being painted insinuously is mind-boggling to me.

Also important to note that Pippen getting paid so low was in large part a coefficient of Jordan getting paid so damn much. I'm not remotely suggesting the Jordan didn't deserve every penny, but he was making over $30 million a year at a time when only one other player was making over $15 million.

1. Michael Jordan (Chi) ..... 33,140,000
2. Patrick Ewing (NY) ....... 20,500,000
3. Horace Grant (Orl) ....... 14,285,714
4. Shaquille O'Neal (LAL) ... 12,857,143
5. David Robinson (SA) ...... 12,397,440
6. Alonzo Mourning (Mia) .... 11,254,800
7. Juwan Howard (Was) ....... 11,250,000
8. Hakeem Olajuwon (Hou) .... 11,156,000
9. Gary Payton (Sea) ........ 10,514,688
10. Dikembe Mutombo (Atl) .... 9,615,187
11. Reggie Miller (Ind) ...... 9,031,850
https://www.eskimo.com/~pbender/misc/salaries98.txt

For comparison's sake, the equivalent to that would be if the top two salaries in the NHL today were McDavid at $12.5 million and some other superstar at $20.2 million.

When someone on the team is making so damn much, is it really a surprise that the team has to penny pinch on other guys? Pippen had every right to want more, and Jordan had every right to want to keep his, but Jordan being annoyed decades later at Pippen being selfish when he already got paid was something that should've been hit a bit more than just passing comments by Jordan, imho.

But sensational documentary so far. Move over, Tiger King.

 

[dahrougem2]

but Jordan being annoyed decades later at Pippen being selfish when he already got paid was something that should've been hit a bit more than just passing comments by Jordan, imho

This is what really stuck out to me through the first two episodes, and it was just a passer-by comment from Jordan on how he thought Scottie Pippen was being selfish.

Really, dude? That guy is being selfish and yet you're making 16x the amount he is?

I don't blame Pippen one bit. If anything, I would have sat out the entire season if I was Pippen just to send a message to Jordan.

 

[Soundwave]

This is what really stuck out to me through the first two episodes, and it was just a passer-by comment from Jordan on how he thought Scottie Pippen was being selfish.

Really, dude? That guy is being selfish and yet you're making 16x the amount he is?

I don't blame Pippen one bit. If anything, I would have sat out the entire season if I was Pippen just to send a message to Jordan.

Pippen was being selfish. He signed a contract and was even told straight up it may undervalue him in the long run, but he signed it anyway.

First of all Jordan was also criminally underpaid, Danny Ferry (lol) made more money than Jordan from NBA salary in 1991 for example.

Once you sign a contract, its signed. You can't renegotiate it, like what the f*** did Scottie expect the Bulls to do? Even if they wanted to renegotiate it the NBA would intervene and stop that from happening because every other owner would complain.

Imagine an NBA team owner doing the reverse on this and telling a player they're going to pay them less half way through a contract because he's not playing well enough. The NBAPA would declare full on war.

Pippen purposely knowing he needed surgery and opting to not get it done in the summer and sabotage his own team to send a message is wildly immature, if the 2nd best player on anyone's hockey team did that a lot of people would shit a brick in rage.

 

[Soundwave]

Blatant copy and paste of a post I made on HFHawks....

Watched the first two episodes last night. Thoroughly enjoyed it. Now, a couple things to note:

It's very important to realize that this is, so far, coming with a very pro-MJ tilt, and he's had a very acrimonious relationship for years with Krause prior to his death, so while I have no doubt that it was foolish for him to really be so obviously eager to blow it up, we are so far getting just the opinions of people that didn't like him with the occasional compliment sandwich in there. The stated breaking point of Krause not wanting to risk MJ's career on rushing him back too early just seems like a no duh move to me that it being painted insinuously is mind-boggling to me.

Also important to note that Pippen getting paid so low was in large part a coefficient of Jordan getting paid so damn much. I'm not remotely suggesting the Jordan didn't deserve every penny, but he was making over $30 million a year at a time when only one other player was making over $15 million.

1. Michael Jordan (Chi) ..... 33,140,000
2. Patrick Ewing (NY) ....... 20,500,000
3. Horace Grant (Orl) ....... 14,285,714
4. Shaquille O'Neal (LAL) ... 12,857,143
5. David Robinson (SA) ...... 12,397,440
6. Alonzo Mourning (Mia) .... 11,254,800
7. Juwan Howard (Was) ....... 11,250,000
8. Hakeem Olajuwon (Hou) .... 11,156,000
9. Gary Payton (Sea) ........ 10,514,688
10. Dikembe Mutombo (Atl) .... 9,615,187
11. Reggie Miller (Ind) ...... 9,031,850
https://www.eskimo.com/~pbender/misc/salaries98.txt

For comparison's sake, the equivalent to that would be if the top two salaries in the NHL today were McDavid at $12.5 million and some other superstar at $20.2 million.

When someone on the team is making so damn much, is it really a surprise that the team has to penny pinch on other guys? Pippen had every right to want more, and Jordan had every right to want to keep his, but Jordan being annoyed decades later at Pippen being selfish when he already got paid was something that should've been hit a bit more than just passing comments by Jordan, imho.

But sensational documentary so far. Move over, Tiger King.

This is misleading, Jordan was underpaid for many years prior to getting the deserved big pay day in 96-97 season. For example, when the Bulls won their first championship in 90-91:

1.	Patrick Ewing	$4,250,000	$8,380,352
2.	Hot Rod Williams	$3,785,000	$7,463,443
3.	Hakeem Olajuwon	$3,175,000	$6,260,616
4.	Charles Barkley	$2,900,000	$5,718,357
5.	Chris Mullin	$2,850,000	$5,619,765
6.	Isiah Thomas	$2,720,000	$5,363,425
7.	Danny Ferry	$2,640,000	$5,205,677
8.	Michael Jordan	$2,500,000	$4,929,618
8.	Robert Parish	$2,500,000	$4,929,618
10.	Moses Malone	$2,406,000	$4,744,265
11.	Magic Johnson	$2,400,000	$4,732,434
12.	Wayman Tisdale	$2,330,000	$4,594,404
13.	Pervis Ellison	$2,300,000	$4,535,249
14.	David Robinson	$2,265,000	$4,466,234

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Yes, Michael Jordan who made the NBA the no.1 rising sports and sold hundreds of millions in Bulls merchandise is making less than Danny freaking Ferry and barely more than Wayman Tisdale.

Pippen knew if he was going to be a UFA in summer 1998 and would get paid the same way Jordan did in summer 1996.

Pippen cashed in massively in those last few years, his wife even tweeted he made more money than Jordan did from NBA salary:

Scottie Pippen’s ex-wife wants you to know how much he made in his career

But Larsa Pippen revealed that Scottie Pippen didn’t do too bad in his career. She tweeted out a screenshot of an article for Bleacher Report, which revealed Scottie Pippen made $109,192,430 over the course of his career — earning $20 million more than Jordan did during his career.

 

[Soundwave]

It was funny to see math teachers like Carlisle and Ainge guarding Jordan or DJ - who even though he was a great defender - didn’t have 1/10th of the athleticism or speed young MJ had

The NBA jas evolved for the better tbh

Jordan made mince meat out of bigger defenders like both the Wilkins brothers, Drexler, Cooper, Mason, and even Rodman.

You act like it never dawned on anyone to play a bigger player against Jordan -- teams tried it (Gerald Wilkins even dubbed himself the "Jordan stopper" lol) ... it didn't work. If anything I think Jordan had an easier time against bigger or similar sized players because they could not stay in front of him speed wise.

Jordan was still dropping 23 ppg at age 38/39 with shot knees in the Kobe/Carter/T-Mac/Iverson era.

He'd score the same 32+ ppg (prime) in the modern game. You can't guard someone when you can't stay in front of them, and Jordan just had freakish first step, he was like a Iverson tier first step in his prime combined with a 6'6 frame and out of the world athleticism.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

This is misleading, Jordan was underpaid for many years prior to getting the deserved big pay day in 96-97 season. For example, when the Bulls won their first championship in 90-91:

1.	Patrick Ewing	$4,250,000	$8,380,352
2.	Hot Rod Williams	$3,785,000	$7,463,443
3.	Hakeem Olajuwon	$3,175,000	$6,260,616
4.	Charles Barkley	$2,900,000	$5,718,357
5.	Chris Mullin	$2,850,000	$5,619,765
6.	Isiah Thomas	$2,720,000	$5,363,425
7.	Danny Ferry	$2,640,000	$5,205,677
8.	Michael Jordan	$2,500,000	$4,929,618
8.	Robert Parish	$2,500,000	$4,929,618
10.	Moses Malone	$2,406,000	$4,744,265
11.	Magic Johnson	$2,400,000	$4,732,434
12.	Wayman Tisdale	$2,330,000	$4,594,404
13.	Pervis Ellison	$2,300,000	$4,535,249
14.	David Robinson	$2,265,000	$4,466,234

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Yes, Michael Jordan who made the NBA the no.1 rising sports and sold hundreds of millions in Bulls merchandise is making less than Danny freaking Ferry and barely more than Wayman Tisdale.

Pippen knew if he was going to be a UFA in summer 1998 and would get paid the same way Jordan did in summer 1996.

Pippen cashed in massively in those last few years, his wife even tweeted he made more money than Jordan did from NBA salary:

Scottie Pippen’s ex-wife wants you to know how much he made in his career

But Larsa Pippen revealed that Scottie Pippen didn’t do too bad in his career. She tweeted out a screenshot of an article for Bleacher Report, which revealed Scottie Pippen made $109,192,430 over the course of his career — earning $20 million more than Jordan did during his career.

He was underpaid, sure; but his pay was still in the upper echelon of the players. That list shows he was still a top ten paid guy, if the same were true for Pippen I'd bet you his salary he wouldn't have been peeved at the Bulls.

That list compared to my list just shows how insane things got in under a decade revenues and salary-wise. Jordan and the Bulls are the reason for that, absolutely no doubt.

Edit: though looking at subsequent years, his pay rank definitely tanked compared to upper echelon for sure. I'd say that he more than benefited from the difference with his massive windfall at the end of his Bulls career, for sure.

 

[Soundwave]

He was underpaid, sure; but his pay was still in the upper echelon of the players. That list shows he was still a top ten paid guy, if the same were true for Pippen I'd bet you his salary he wouldn't have been peeved at the Bulls.

That list compared to my list just shows how insane things got in under a decade revenues and salary-wise. Jordan and the Bulls are the reason for that, absolutely no doubt.

That's not a conspiracy against Pippen, he signed the contract and wanted that contract. He chose it.

Reinsdorf even told him not to sign such a long term deal and go shorter term so he could reap a bigger contract later, Pippen is the one who passed on that, and then is the one who is mad at everyone else for his own decision. And even then, when Pippen signed the deal he was no where near the top players in the league, he was averaging an OK 16.5 ppg in 89-90, but this is not superstar production.

The Bulls did nothing wrong, Jordan could've made the same stink, Jordan should've been paid double any other player in the league according to worth, Wilt Chamberlain even said every player in the NBA should give 30% of their salary to Jordan due to how much his popularity increased league revenue.

If Scottie wanted to be pissed off at anyone, he should've been pissed off at himself. Not to mention he was still earning a nice handsome amount of money from ad deals like a Nike contract to boot during that time anyway.

If anything the Bulls actually went out of their way when Pippen became a UFA to structure things in his contract so he did indeed end up making a shit ton more money on his UFA deal in summer of '98:

How The Bulls Helped Scottie Pippen Make Millions More In Salary On His Way Out Of Chicago

 

[Stylizer1]

That's not a conspiracy against Pippen, he signed the contract and wanted that contract. He chose it.

Reinsdorf even told him not to sign such a long term deal and go shorter term so he could reap a bigger contract later, Pippen is the one who passed on that, and then is the one who is mad at everyone else for his own decision. And even then, when Pippen signed the deal he was no where near the top players in the league, he was averaging an OK 16.5 ppg in 89-90, but this is not superstar production.

The Bulls did nothing wrong, Jordan could've made the same stink, Jordan should've been paid double any other player in the league according to worth, Wilt Chamberlain even said every player in the NBA should give 30% of their salary to Jordan due to how much his popularity increased league revenue.

If Scottie wanted to be pissed off at anyone, he should've been pissed off at himself. Not to mention he was still earning a nice handsome amount of money from ad deals like a Nike contract to boot during that time anyway.

If anything the Bulls actually went out of their way when Pippen became a UFA to structure things in his contract so he did indeed end up making a shit ton more money on his UFA deal in summer of '98:

How The Bulls Helped Scottie Pippen Make Millions More In Salary On His Way Out Of Chicago

 

[Stylizer1]

Jordan was the most exciting player ever in the NBA. That is something Lebron sorely misses.