Player Discussion Charles Hudon Part III

[26Mats]

The habs have a lot of middling talent on forward.

Despite what people say about Shaw, even he can produce in a complimentary role. Guys like Lehkonen, Hudon, Armia etc... can do the same. Danault can be added to that list even if he plays higher up the line-up.

The biggest issue the habs will have is how to give these guys opportunities to break out and/or trade them for upgrades.

I have said for a year now we have too many wingers.

Pacioretty(Still here for now)
Gallagher
Drouin(He's a winger, IDGAF what management says)
Domi
Lehkonen
Hudon
Byron
Shaw
Armia

Scherbak

Even if we'd go as far as removing Max and Drouin from the list we still have a lot of guys who can play wing well. The problem of course is that it forces guys who need more opportunities in support roles. That's good for a contending team but for a team looking to develop talent having some guys like Hudon and others playing bottom 6(if not 4th line) roles is a little counterproductive.

If habs falter I can only hope Max and Byron are traded while they have value.

Pacioretty, Byron, and Shaw should be traded. Pacioretty and Byron because they'll be too old by the time we can contend, so might as well trade them for futures. Shaw because he scored 5 goals and 13 points in 51 games when he wasn't on the power play and Gallagher was better in front of the net on the pp than Shaw anyways. He can't stick handle and apparantly is in demeand.

So that leaves 6 wingers for the top 9 roles and Armia to play with Deslauriers on the 4th:

Scherbak - Gallagher
Domi - Drouin
Hudon - Lehkonen
Armia - Deslauriers

But in the mean time, Drouin is playing center since we don't have anyone else to play center, so one of Pacioretty and Byron can stay. For now. Shaw needs to go regardless.

 

[Kriss E]

Coming in peace and only saying it because i've been there, but when a player is struggling and desperate you hear the phrase that he's squeezing the stick to hard. Well, when a fanbase is struggling and desperate for a #1 center, you'll have fans squeezing their cheeks too hard resulting in posts like the one you replied too.

Hope Kotkaniemi works out, for the sheer bravery factor in taking him before some 'safe' picks.

Someone said I was a pessimist because I said I don't see Hudon becoming a top 6 guy nor do I believe he has excellent hands.
I said he's a 3rd liner 30-40pt guy, with a ceiling of ~45pts. Apparently that was me being pessimistic...

Fans always overvalued, but reasonable discussions were still happening. A lot rarer these days.

 

[DAChampion]

Someone said I was a pessimist because I said I don't see Hudon becoming a top 6 guy nor do I believe he has excellent hands.
I said he's a 3rd liner 30-40pt guy, with a ceiling of ~45pts. Apparently that was me being pessimistic...

Fans always overvalued, but reasonable discussions were still happening. A lot rarer these days.

45 points from the third line?

 

[Kriss E]

45 points from the third line?

No, in a top 6-9 role. Getting around 14-15min of ice time including PP minutes.
On 3rd, around 35pts, which would be great, not to say excellent.

 

[Belial]

Charlie looking good...

Gained 5 pounds of muscle this summer apparently.

 

[Habs Halifax]

45 points from the third line?

Is there a definite 3rd line on our team? Or the 3rd listed line? . Pretty sure our top 3 lines can be a top line on any given night so average minutes per game is not necessarily tied to a line that is listed 3rd.

PP time also has a huge factor.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Not sure about Hudon at this stage. I don't think it goes well for him if he has a stalled development year and his production is the same as last year. He seems to be mature and the coaches trust him to a certain degree so I am looking for him to show some offensive potential and improved production. 24 year old prospect or full time NHL player at this stage? Not sure but this season will reveal a lot.

 

[Belial]

Not sure about Hudon at this stage. I don't think it goes well for him if he has a stalled development year and his production is the same as last year. He seems to be mature and the coaches trust him to a certain degree so I am looking for him to show some offensive potential and improved production. 24 year old prospect or full time NHL player at this stage? Not sure but this season will reveal a lot.

30 points in 72 games as a rookie in the NHL on a third line is decent production...

 

[Habs Halifax]

30 points in 72 games as a rookie in the NHL on a third line is decent production...

Agreed. But for me it's similar expectations like Ghetto. Show me how you can produce offensively and fill a top 6 role. Not so sure Hudon fits in the bottom 6. Maybe on the 3rd line in the future but I prefer a larger player with similar skating and similar production... A guy like Armia. We can only have so many smaller type forwards in our line-up. At some point, something has to give and these soft or small type players who get pushed around need to show above average offensive potential IMO.

Like I said. What is he at this stage? A 24 year old prospect or a solid top 9 NHL player? I think we need to see how he does in his 2nd year.

Not trolling Hudon's value. I just expect more from him cause I know he has great vision and a good shot. My expectations are high cause I don't think he fits well on the 4th line. Maybe 3rd line but that depends on how our top 9 looks (size/skill/skating combo and balance).

He needs to show top 6 potential for me to pencil him in our future.

 

[Belial]

Agreed. But for me it's similar expectations like Ghetto. Show me how you can produce offensively and fill a top 6 role. Not so sure Hudon fits in the bottom 6. Maybe on the 3rd line in the future but I prefer a larger player with similar skating and similar production... A guy like Armia. We can only have so many smaller type forwards in our line-up. At some point, something has to give and these soft or small type players who get pushed around need to show above average offensive potential IMO.

Like I said. What is he at this stage? A 24 year old prospect or a solid top 9 NHL player? I think we need to see how he does in his 2nd year.

Not trolling Hudon's value. I just expect more from him cause I know he has great vision and a good shot. My expectations are high cause I don't think he fits well on the 4th line. Maybe 3rd line but that depends on how our top 9 looks (size/skill/skating combo and balance)

Hudon is not big but he's far from soft IMO. He's quite strong on his skates and is not really pushed around...

 

[Habs Halifax]

Hudon is not big but he's far from soft IMO. He's quite strong on his skates and is not really pushed around...

I disagree to a certain degree. I don't think he is as soft as Drouin but he gets neutralized very easily. His puck protection down low is not the greatest. It's not terrible but I think he is more of soft type vs a guy who wins 50% of his puck battles.

What young player do I like more? Armia or Hudon? Armia hands down! Both have similar offensive skills but Armia can be a force out there. I want Hudon to put up above average production and pass Armia with his offensive skills (not tie him). Get my point?

 

[Belial]

I disagree to a certain degree. I don't think he is as soft as Drouin but he gets neutralized very easily. His puck protection down low is not the greatest. It's not terrible but I think he is more of soft type vs a guy who wins 50% of his puck battles.

What young player do I like more? Armia or Hudon? Armia hands down! Both have similar offensive skills but Armia can be a force out there. I want Hudon to put up above average production and pass Armia with his offensive skills (not tie him). Get my point?

Again, I just don't agree Hudon is soft. He's quite pesky out there actually and rarely avoids physical contact.

He finished 4th on the team for hits per game among regular forwards...

 

[Habs Halifax]

Again, I just don't agree Hudon is soft. He's quite pesky out there actually and rarely avoids physical contact.

He finished 4th on the team for hits per game among regular forwards...

Well maybe soft was the wrong word but he's far from being a beast and pushing other players around. He gets neutralized very easily. But you are correct, he is not soft like a Drouin type. He doesn't shy away from contact and that part I like. However, his puck protection is not great down low and he will not win too many puck battles.

Like I said, I expect more from Hudon cause I know his vision and shot are good. He is cable of producing more and I want him to

 

[Belial]

Well maybe soft was the wrong word but he's far from being a beast and pushing other players around. He gets neutralized very easily. But you are correct, he is not soft like a Drouin type. He doesn't shy away from contact and that part I like. However, his puck protection is not great down low and he will not win too many puck battles.

Like I said, I expect more from Hudon cause I know his vision and shot are good. He is cable of producing more and I want him to

Well from being a beast and being soft there's quite some distance IMO.

He can definitely do his thing out there without being physically dominated.

And yes I think he will do better this year, he had a ton of chances last year and just failed to convert or his partners failed to convert his passes.

He showed some glimpses of dominance and I'm not even kidding, looked like our best forward on some nights.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Well from being a beast and being soft there's quite some distance IMO.

He can definitely do his thing out there without being physically dominated.

And yes I think he will do better this year, he had a ton of chances last year and just failed to convert or his partners failed to convert his passes.

He showed some glimpses of dominance and I'm not even kidding, looked like our best forward on some nights.

Can he lay a hit and turn the puck over at the same time? . In other words, he is not shy in physical contact but does he cause havic like Gallagher would do? Time will tell. He has only played his first season and lets see what he does in his 2nd year. It's a big year for him

I respect your positive outlook on Hudon. He did have a solid season. I just expect to see more from him moving forward.... for me, it's about how he can produce with the vision and NHL shot he has. I will always be critical on smaller type players cause I hate our team getting pushed around.

 

[Le Barron de HF]

I think Hudon is more versatile than a guy like Ghetto. Hudon can still be serviceable on a third line unlike Ghetto. I have compared him to Mathieu Perreault for years and my comparison remains the same. The problem, which is not necessarily a bad problem per se, is that we have an abundance of players in the Hudon tier (Armia, Lehk, Hudon & Scherbak). IMO Scherbak has the best upside with 60 pts, then Lehk at 50-55, and the last two at 45-50. It really comes down to luck, opportunity and perseverance/hard work. One of them might have to be dealt elsewhere to flourish a la Grabovski. Hopefully for us the return is good and we don't "sacrifice" Scherby.

 

[Belial]

Can he lay a hit and turn the puck over at the same time? . In other words, he is not shy in physical contact but does he cause havic like Gallagher would do? Time will tell. He has only played his first season and lets see what he does in his 2nd year. It's a big year for him

I respect your positive outlook on Hudon. He did have a solid season. I just expect to see more from him moving forward.... for me, it's about how he can produce with the vision and NHL shot he has. I will always be critical on smaller type players cause I hate our team getting pushed around.

Did you know that we finished first in the HNL for hits last season?

 

[Le Barron de HF]

Did you know that we finished first in the HNL for hits last season?

Although the team isn't really soft, the BC is notorious for being generous on what a hit is. See the difference before and after a player leaves MTL.

 

[Belial]

Although the team isn't really soft, the BC is notorious for being generous on what a hit is. See the difference before and after a player leaves MTL.

There's clearly some BC bias as we have 1201 hits at home and 968 on the road but it's not that far IMO.

 

[montreal]

What young player do I like more? Armia or Hudon? Armia hands down! Both have similar offensive skills but Armia can be a force out there. I want Hudon to put up above average production and pass Armia with his offensive skills (not tie him). Get my point?

Hudon for me, as he had a better year at 23 then Armia did at 23 and on a much better team. Hudon has a heck of a shot and his IQ is very high, I think he can be at least a 40 pt player as long as he doesn't have Pleks as his center and gets some PP time. If he can get quicker and improve lower body strength then I could see him getting 50+ points down the road. He was great in the AHL, better then any prospect we have had since Subban.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Top 9 forward with some top 6 potential. I’m a fan. Loved how he played in the A I’m sure he has more to give. Tough playing with guys that don’t pass it around, he has good offensive tools and iQ. But god knows mtl dosent like putting offensively skilled players with offensively skilled players most likely because of the lack of those type of players in the first place

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

Charlie looking good...

Gained 5 pounds of muscle this summer apparently.

if he can get a bit stronger as well as getting a bit quicker/faster, I'd be very very pleased. Those are really the only things holding him back. I still think there's a chance at him being a minor star/fan favourite.

 

[KevSkillz4]

Big fan of him. I think he can be a great top 6 player for Habs. Talented, consistent and great attitude.

 

[groovejuice]

Big fan of him. I think he can be a great top 6 player for Habs. Talented, consistent and great attitude.

I like Hudon too, but realistically I see him as a middle 6 winger. He does have skills, IQ and potential - that needs to be nurtured with ice time, regular linemates and special team opportunites.

 

[schnapshot]

I like Hudon too, but realistically I see him as a middle 6 winger. He does have skills, IQ and potential - that needs to be nurtured with ice time, regular linemates and special team opportunites.

Someone earlier said Mathieu Perrault. I believe that’s a fair comparison