Player Discussion Charles Hudon Part III

[Belial]

Does Hudon have a better shot than Lehkonen and Gallagher?

Definitely better shot than Gallagher, Lehkonen is debatable...

What's interesting about Hudon is that he was more of a playmaker when he was drafted and he really developped a scoring touch in the AHL. He can do both pretty well.

 

[Runner77]

Plekanec's case is really interesting... When I watch him play I don't notice that decline, he looks like the same ol Plekanec... I think he'll have a solid campaign.

There are 2 years of a declining offensive track record, that can't be erased by a couple of positive early pre-season games.

He's gone from being a 26 goal scorer in 2014-15, to an abysmal 14 goals in the year he was last re-upped and to a paltry 10 goals last year.

Maybe if you watched him over a longer stretch, you might have a different take. I'd say your optimism is rather premature.

 

[donghabs98]

I think we might end up seeing :

Pacioretty - Drouin - Gallagher
Galchenyuk - Danault - Hemsky
Hudon - Plekanec - Lekhonen
Byron - Mitchell - Shaw

That is a pretty solid forward group in my opinion as Hemsky can be easily swapped with Lekhonen who I expect to have a 20 goal+ season. The weakness though is no doubt at center, Danault is not and shouldn't be the 2nd line center on a team posing to make a deep run. He just doesn't have the upside or extra gear to be an effective top 6 center, he would no doubt be a effective 3rd line center on the other hand. If the Habs can either bring in a top 6 LW and move Galchenyuk to center or in turn acquire a top 6 center outright then that's a forward group that I think can do some damage.

 

[Belial]

There are 2 years of a declining offensive track record, that can't be erased by a couple of positive early pre-season games.

He's gone from being a 26 goal scorer in 2014-15, to an abysmal 14 goals in the year he was last re-upped and to a paltry 10 goals last year.

Maybe if you watched him over a longer stretch, you might have a different take. I'd say your optimism is rather premature.

No, I'm not basing my opinion on a couple of preseason games.Even last year I thought he was skating/hustling/working the same as he used to do before but it's like it was just not clicking for him, he was missing open nets and stuff like this...It's like it was in his head instead of something physically related but I might be wrong... We'll see this season.

 

[Playmaker09]

he must have put in a lot of work as his shot in the past 2 years has been lethal. Very accurate. It's one of the reasons I've been so excited about him, when you have a good playmaker that's very smart, and he improves his shot to where he could be a 20+ goal scorer in the NHL (imo), that makes him a real threat as he becomes so tough to defend against, you just don't know if he will beat you with his shot or a sick pass.

One of the reasons he should've been playing in the NHL last year.

When someone who's a pure playmaker all his life can just out of nowhere become one of the elite goalscorers in the AHL, it's because he's too good to be playing there and can play whatever style of game his team needs him to play.

Look at Drouin's stint in the AHL a couple of years ago for reference. 11 goals, 2 assists.

There's obviously something off when players of their style are putting up those kinds of goal/assist ratios.

Does Hudon have a better shot than Lehkonen and Gallagher?

Easily better than post-surgery Gallagher. Probably pre-surgery as well. Gallagher was just very good around the net and at getting his shots off through traffic by changing the angle of his shot.

Lehkonen's got a better release and velocity on his wrist/snap. But Hudon has an absolute screamer of a slap shot that he's willing to use often. Still, I think Lehkonen's the better natural scorer.

 

[Runner77]

I wouldn't count on Hemsky as anything more than a Fleischmann-type.

A 34-year old coming off significant surgery in the off season, only managed to play close to 70 games only once from the 6 seasons prior to his Dallas stint. And the the surgery he underwent recently was due to a 2016 injury.

He's a player who has overwhelmingly been unable to stay healthy. And now, despite playing 76 and 75 games with Dallas and despite playing with an offensive-minded team, he's averaged only 12 goals over the past two seasons.

Nothing spells 2nd line player from the above profile. I wouldn't count on him being slotted as a top 6. And if he is, it says a lot about this team's poorly constructed roster.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

I think Hudon has really benefited from the patience being a 5th round pick affords.

 

[Runner77]

No, I'm not basing my opinion on a couple of preseason games.Even last year I thought he was skating/hustling/working the same as he used to do before but it's like it was just not clicking for him, he was missing open nets and stuff like this...It's like it was in his head instead of something physically related but I might be wrong... We'll see this season.

Yeah, we'll see. But his offensive stats don't lie, his stick is where plays go to die.

 

[Belial]

I wouldn't count on Hemsky as anything more than a Fleischmann-type.

A 34-year old coming off significant surgery in the off season, only managed to play close to 70 games only once from the 6 seasons prior to his Dallas stint. And the the surgery he underwent recently was due to a 2016 injury.

He's a player who has overwhelmingly been unable to stay healthy. And now, despite playing 76 and 75 games with Dallas and despite playing with an offensive-minded team, he's averaged only 12 goals over the past two seasons.

Nothing spells 2nd line player from the above profile. I wouldn't count on him being slotted as a top 6. And if he is, it says a lot about this team's poorly constructed roster.

He was used in a shutdown role in Dallas though, his P/60 is really high.

 

[Runner77]

He was used in a shutdown role in Dallas though, his P/60 is really high.

I read a piece that stated that Hemsky was expected to be a major offensive contributor for Dallas. I don't follow the Stars, so I'll have to rely on those who do: https://www.defendingbigd.com/2017/...-and-mattias-janmark-free-agent-injury-update

I have no indication that he was expected to fill a shutdown role.

 

[Belial]

I read a piece that stated that Hemsky was expected to be a major offensive contributor for Dallas. I don't follow the Stars, so I'll have to rely on those who do: https://www.defendingbigd.com/2017/...-and-mattias-janmark-free-agent-injury-update

I have no indication that he was expected to fill a shutdown role.

The guy was playing with Roussel and Janmark, does that scream to you offensive production?

 

[Runner77]

The guy was playing with Roussel and Janmark, does that scream to you offensive production?

I read the piece as you did, but the writer indicates he was counted upon for offensive production.

Why would Dallas sign a supposedly offensive specialist in a shutdown role? Makes no sense.

Regardless, you can't deny the track record -- he has trouble staying healthy and if he couldn't stay healthy in his 20s, I wonder how well it's going to go now that he's 34. There is ample reason to temper expectations.

 

[Belial]

I read the piece as you did, but the writer indicates he was counted upon for offensive production.

Why would Dallas sign a supposedly offensive specialist in a shutdown role? Makes no sense.

Regardless, you can't deny the track record -- he has trouble staying healthy and if he couldn't stay healthy in his 20s, I wonder how well it's going to go now that he's 34. There is ample reason to temper expectations.

He produced more than enough considering the way he was being used, I have no clue what that writer is smoking.

He was playing ~13 minutes per game and he managed to put up 39 points I mean wtf do you expect?

His P/60 was 2.38, Radulov's P/60 last year was 2.33 ...

 

[NobleSix]

I think we might end up seeing :

Pacioretty - Drouin - Gallagher
Galchenyuk - Danault - Hemsky
Hudon - Plekanec - Lekhonen
Byron - Mitchell - Shaw

Put Galchenyuk at center between Hudon and Lehkonen/Hemsky, and put Danault on the 3rd line where he belongs and then we're talking. The Galchenyuk-Danault duo will continue to struggle. I don't see that ever working out. Some players just do not mesh well and Galchenyuk and Danault are an example of that. Their style of games just completely clash.

 

[Belial]

Put Galchenyuk at center between Hudon and Hemsky, and put Danault on the 3rd line where he belongs and then we're talking. The Galchenyuk-Danault duo will continue to struggle.

Why you no love Phil the Thrill?

You will eat some crow in a couple of months, I can guarantee you that.

 

[NobleSix]

Why you no love Phil the Thrill?

You will eat some crow in a couple of months, I can guarantee you that.

Because he's a third liner. Ill show him no love as long as he is in the top 6, just like I did with DD and Weise when they were pigeon holed into the top 6. I loved the trade that brought him here, I think he's an excellent 3rd line center, and the moment he goes back into that role I will praise him once again.

Until then though I will crusade against his usage as a top 6 center. He doesn't possess the shot, playmaking ability, or offensive vision to produce as a 2nd line center. I will not eat crow because Danault will never be a viable 2nd line center. This I know. You will come to accept this this season as well.

 

[Runner77]

He produced more than enough considering the way he was being used, I have no clue what that writer is smoking.

He was playing ~13 minutes per game and he managed to put up 39 points I mean wtf do you expect?

His P/60 was 2.38, Radulov's P/60 last year was 2.33 ...

I don't know how you can even put Hemsky and Radulov references in the same sentence. One is a brittle player that is coming major surgery, the other was a workhorse with no major injury issues. And Radulov was playing on a team with limited offensive ability.

That's "wtf".

Anyway, no one has ever convinced you of anything here, so I'm not going to start now.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Some of you guys really struggle to see the forest for the trees. Forget 2nd line and 3rd line... we have Danault and Plekanec as our middle 6 centers, and it isn't that bad.

 

[Belial]

Because he's a third liner. Ill show him no love as long as he is in the top 6, just like I did with DD and Weise when they were pigeon holed into the top 6. I loved the trade that brought him here, I think he's an excellent 3rd line center, and the moment he goes back into that role I will praise him once again.

Until then though I will crusade against his usage as a top 6 center. He doesn't possess the shot, playmaking ability, or offensive vision to produce as a 2nd line center. I will not eat crow because Danault will never be a viable 2nd line center. This I know. You will come to accept this this season as well.

Let's wait and see.

I don't know how you can even put Hemsky and Radulov references in the same sentence. One is a brittle player that is coming major surgery, the other was a workhorse with no major injury issues. And Radulov was playing on a team with limited offensive ability.

That's "wtf".

Anyway, no one has ever convinced you of anything here, so I'm not going to start now.

Again, are we talking about production here or what?

You have no idea how many games will Hemsky be able to play this year, and neither do I, and it's the same for Radu and any other player.

Let's talk facts and not assumptions.

 

[Runner77]

Let's wait and see.


Again, are we talking about production here or what?

You have no idea how many games will Hemsky be able to play this year, and neither do I, and it's the same for Radu and any other player.

Let's talk facts and not assumptions.

Let's wait and see and resorting to other future eventualities doesn't do away with a player's track record. Second, you elevate the status of players like Plekanec who have declining production over the last 2 seasons and is barely a third liner at this point -- and we're supposed to believe in him again cause of 2 pre-season stints where he was paired up with Hudon. Where are the facts in that? Sounds like a blatant assumption as there is nothing in Plekanec's game over the past 2 years to suggest a resurgence.

And then you top it all of by using Radulov and Hemsky in the same sentence -- talk about a false equivalency. You completely disregard Hemsky's age, his major surgery, a long track record of missed games and injury, lack of offensive production, a player who had substantial injuries in his 20s and somehow we're supposed to believe that none of the foregoing matters. Again, these are the facts, not assumptions.

At this stage of the season, all we have are track records and they are they tend to be predictors of future outcomes, whether you like it or not. Propping brittle, low ceiling or declining players for the sake of making contrarian posts does nothing to render your arguments convincing -- just sounds like as long a player is wearing a Habs jersey, he can't possibly own what he's done.

 

[Draft]

Some of you guys really struggle to see the forest for the trees. Forget 2nd line and 3rd line... we have Danault and Plekanec as our middle 6 centers, and it isn't that bad.

I'm on board with this. Depending on their line mates, both players have the potential to hit 50pts and play strong defensive hockey.

 

[Belial]

Let's wait and see and resorting to other future eventualities doesn't do away with a player's track record. Second, you elevate the status of players like Plekanec who have declining production over the last 2 seasons and is barely a third liner at this point -- and we're supposed to believe in him again cause of 2 pre-season stints where he was paired up with Hudon. Where are the facts in that? Sounds like a blatant assumption as there is nothing in Plekanec's game over the past 2 years to suggest a resurgence.

I told you I'm not basing my opinion on 2 games.

You're free to disagree.

I don't think Plekanec is done physically, it's in his head. This guy had no serious injury in his whole career and he's not 40.

And then you top it all of by using Radulov and Hemsky in the same sentence -- talk about a false equivalency. You completely disregard Hemsky's age, his major surgery, a long track record of missed games and injury, lack of offensive production, a player who had substantial injuries in his 20s and somehow we're supposed to believe that none of the foregoing matters. Again, these are the facts, not assumptions.

Markov?

At this stage of the season, all we have are track records and they are they tend to be predictors of future outcomes, whether you like it or not. Propping brittle, low ceiling or declining players for the sake of making contrarian posts does nothing to render your arguments convincing -- just sounds like as long a player is wearing a Habs jersey, he can't possibly own what he's done.

Hemsky has been producing when healthy, there were no signs of decline in his game. Even last year when he played, he got 7 points in 15 games.

 

[G0bias]

Some of you guys really struggle to see the forest for the trees. Forget 2nd line and 3rd line... we have Danault and Plekanec as our middle 6 centers, and it isn't that bad.

Middle-6 includes 2nd line. It's that bad. Specially when the current 1C has never played center at the NHL level and is a total shot in the dark. Very bad.

 

[Runner77]

I told you I'm not basing my opinion on 2 games.

You're free to disagree.

I don't think Plekanec is done physically, it's in his head. This guy had no serious injury in his whole career and he's not 40.

If it's not the two games, then I don't know where you're getting evidence of a resurgence.

Markov?

The exception that proves the rule. Plus, Hemsky is coming off major surgery now, not many years ago like Markov.

Hemsky has been producing when healthy, there were no signs of decline in his game. Even last year when he played, he got 7 points in 15 games.

15 games is a small sample size that doesn't at all jive with his record of roughly 12 goals per season for the two seasons he spent in Dallas.

 

[beowulf]

Hudon has been one of the best parts of camp for me along with a longer list of disappointments.