Player Discussion Charles Hudon Part III

[montreal]

Hudon in 72 games was on pace to tie Byron in points last season. Only 4 forwards had more points then Byron last year.

Only 4 Habs had more assists then Hudon last year. Only 6 players had more points, only 5 forwards had more points and that was with playing mostly with the black hole of offense as his center.

Hudon had a very similar rookie season to that of Lehkonen, just 2 years older.

Lehkonen - 73-18-10-28 (.38 ppg)
Hudon - 72-10-20-30 (.42 ppg)

The next year Lehkonon dropped to a .32 ppg. But Hudon has struggled in a major way and has been bounced in and out of the lineup.

 

[FerrisRox]

Hudon in 72 games was on pace to tie Byron in points last season. Only 4 forwards had more points then Byron last year.

Only 4 Habs had more assists then Hudon last year. Only 6 players had more points, only 5 forwards had more points and that was with playing mostly with the black hole of offense as his center.

Hudon had a very similar rookie season to that of Lehkonen, just 2 years older.

Lehkonen - 73-18-10-28 (.38 ppg)
Hudon - 72-10-20-30 (.42 ppg)

The next year Lehkonon dropped to a .32 ppg. But Hudon has struggled in a major way and has been bounced in and out of the lineup.

You can't seriously be suggesting that Hudon and Lehkonen's rookie seasons were comparable in any way.

First of all, Lehkonen nearly hit 20 goals. Hudon struggled to get to ten.

Secondly, Lehkonen provided excellent two-way play and a tenacious work ethic and dogged puck pursuit.

Hudon... did not.

These players aren't remotely alike nor were their rookie seasons.

 

[Vachon23]

Is lack of speed hurt him. If he had Peca speed I think he could be a good 3rd liner. He has good hands and a good vision. Better thing that could happen to him is a trade. I think he can help a bottom team like NJ,Arizona

 

[Tiger Svoboda]

Sadly Hudon will not have a long career

 

[montreal]

You can't seriously be suggesting that Hudon and Lehkonen's rookie seasons were comparable in any way.

First of all, Lehkonen nearly hit 20 goals. Hudon struggled to get to ten.

Secondly, Lehkonen provided excellent two-way play and a tenacious work ethic and dogged puck pursuit.

Hudon... did not.

These players aren't remotely alike nor were their rookie seasons.

And yet Hudon out produced him on an even worse team.

Do assists not count? I can spin it too Lehkonen struggled to get 10, Hudon had twice that amount.

 

[Tyson]

And yet Hudon out produced him on an even worse team.

Do assists not count? I can spin it too Lehkonen struggled to get 10, Hudon had twice that amount.

Lehkonen can skate, kills penalties and play against any line. Hudon can’t crack the line up.

 

[montreal]

Lehkonen can skate, kills penalties and play against any line. Hudon can’t crack the line up.

this year, yes, last he was one of our highest scoring players while playing with Pleks. The point is more that he outproduced Lehkonen as a rookie and then both struggled/regressed in their 2nd season, now in his 3rd Lehkonen is easily having a career year, maybe Hudon can at least get back on track as some players for whatever reason struggle in their 2nd season.

 

[FerrisRox]

And yet Hudon out produced him on an even worse team.

Do assists not count? I can spin it too Lehkonen struggled to get 10, Hudon had twice that amount.

You really want to double down on this?

Be my guest, spin away. Please spin it so that Hudon, who contributes absolutely nothing when the puck isn't on his stick and quite obviously can't skate at the NHL level is somehow in the same league as Lehkonen who already has an 18-goal season to his credit, doesn't need to be sheltered and is extremely valuable and useful *without* the puck.

If you actually regularly watch Montreal Canadiens games and you somehow think their respective rookie seasons were even remotely comparable, I really don't know what to tell you. There's really no point in continuing the conversation.

this year, yes, last he was one of our highest scoring players while playing with Pleks. The point is more that he outproduced Lehkonen as a rookie and then both struggled/regressed in their 2nd season, now in his 3rd Lehkonen is easily having a career year, maybe Hudon can at least get back on track as some players for whatever reason struggle in their 2nd season.

An inability to skate at the NHL level is not something you can "get back on track." Either you can skate at the NHL level or you can't.

 

[FerrisRox]

The Canadiens are better team when they don't have to play guys like Charles Hudon at the NHL level.

The team is better this season that last year and that's why you don't see them having to trot out AHL calibre forwards on their power play unit and give them a regular shift.

Seeing Hudon out of the lineup is a good sign. Why there are people clamouring for his return is frankly bizarre.

 

[Tyson]

Hudon seems to be a great kid with exceptional skills but his lack of explosive skating makes him a future KHL player. Too bad because his skill set is impressive.

How the Lehkonen comparison got started is beyond me. Lehkonen came from Finland with a 200 foot game understanding, he is invaluable on this Habs team. He even wore the A in a few games, this shows what the coaches think of him.
Have you ever seen Hudon on the ice in the defensive zone in the last minute of a tie game? Has Hudon been trusted to kill penalties? Charles will be the next player waived once Armia comes back.

 

[26Mats]

Hudon seems to be a great kid with exceptional skills but his lack of explosive skating makes him a future KHL player. Too bad because his skill set is impressive.

How the Lehkonen comparison got started is beyond me. Lehkonen came from Finland with a 200 foot game understanding, he is invaluable on this Habs team. He even wore the A in a few games, this shows what the coaches think of him.
Have you ever seen Hudon on the ice in the defensive zone in the last minute of a tie game? Has Hudon been trusted to kill penalties? Charles will be the next player waived once Armia comes back.

If Hudon could somehow improve his skating (im not betting on it) he'd have more offensive upside than Lehkonen imo, and could potentially not be a 200 foot liability. But he has trouble keeping up with the pace.

 

[montreal]

You really want to double down on this?

Be my guest, spin away. Please spin it so that Hudon, who contributes absolutely nothing when the puck isn't on his stick and quite obviously can't skate at the NHL level is somehow in the same league as Lehkonen who already has an 18-goal season to his credit, doesn't need to be sheltered and is extremely valuable and useful *without* the puck.

If you actually regularly watch Montreal Canadiens games and you somehow think their respective rookie seasons were even remotely comparable, I really don't know what to tell you. There's really no point in continuing the conversation.



An inability to skate at the NHL level is not something you can "get back on track." Either you can skate at the NHL level or you can't.

I didn't say he's in the same league, Lehkonen was always the better prospect and better player and higher draft pick for a reason. But you can say whatever you want about Hudon, doesn't change the fact that he had more points in his rookie year then Lehkonen did in his and on a worse team.

I understand you don't like Hudon as you have always given me crap about him, but last year he was one of our best players and I'll I am saying is maybe he can get back on track as he did have a good year last year when you factor in we sucked, he played with Pleks mostly and had he had a little more luck he would have had 40 pts.

As for skating it can be improved, DD did it, McCarron is doing it as I think he could get a look in the NHL by next season. McCarron hired a skating coach in the summer and he looks quicker, maybe Hudon should do the same.

 

[FerrisRox]

I didn't say he's in the same league, Lehkonen was always the better prospect and better player and higher draft pick for a reason. But you can say whatever you want about Hudon, doesn't change the fact that he had more points in his rookie year then Lehkonen did in his and on a worse team.

Nobody would have disputed your claim if you said they had very similar point production, but you didn't, you said they had very similar rookie seasons which is patently false.

Lehkonen stepped in and was almost right away one of the best two way forwards on the team, worked hard, scored goals, played excellent two hundred foot hockey, killed penalties and delivered in the playoffs.

He had one of the best rookie seasons for forward the Canadiens have seen in a long time.

Hudon played a soft, lazy game, floated around, chipped in some points in meaningless games in a lost season, was absolutely useless without the puck then lost his job altogether when the team acquired some NHL depth.

To compare these two players and these two seasons is silly, there is no comparison.

 

[montreal]

Nobody would have disputed your claim if you said they had very similar point production, but you didn't, you said they had very similar rookie seasons which is patently false.

Lehkonen stepped in and was almost right away one of the best two way forwards on the team, worked hard, scored goals, played excellent two hundred foot hockey, killed penalties and delivered in the playoffs.

He had one of the best rookie seasons for forward the Canadiens have seen in a long time.

Hudon played a soft, lazy game, floated around, chipped in some points in meaningless games in a lost season, was absolutely useless without the puck then lost his job altogether when the team acquired some NHL depth.

To compare these two players and these two seasons is silly, there is no comparison.

I said they had very similar rookie seasons and then posted their production. But regardless, you clearly don't care for Hudon, and I don't agree that he played a soft lazy game last year.

I happen to like both players and never got why so many posters on this board in all my years here have to do the one vs the other. Things are clearly going very badly for Hudon this year and could mean the end of his NHL career if he doesn't turn it around.

But you basis is very clear, how you posted about the fact that Lehkonen had more more goals but said nothing about how Hudon had twice the assists, you make it sound like Lehkonen is the 2nd coming but Hudon nothing but a turd that somehow got lucky when he outproduced one of the best rookie seasons for Hab in sometime. I know points aren't everything but how you can say Lehkonen had one of the best rookie seasons for the Habs in some time for forwards but hate the guy that actually put up more points on a worse team while often playing on the same line if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Hostile Offer]

Nobody would have disputed your claim if you said they had very similar point production, but you didn't, you said they had very similar rookie seasons which is patently false.

Lehkonen stepped in and was almost right away one of the best two way forwards on the team, worked hard, scored goals, played excellent two hundred foot hockey, killed penalties and delivered in the playoffs.

He had one of the best rookie seasons for forward the Canadiens have seen in a long time.

Hudon played a soft, lazy game, floated around, chipped in some points in meaningless games in a lost season, was absolutely useless without the puck then lost his job altogether when the team acquired some NHL depth.

To compare these two players and these two seasons is silly, there is no comparison.

Hudon is not a soft, lazy floater like you describe. He actually does get into the dirty areas, uses his body decently considering his size and contributes a lot when it comes to forechecking and backchecking. The problem is his skating is well below the par so he is struggling at everything he does this year. Last year it wasn't such a problem because the Habs as a team were playing at a rather sluggish pace so Hudon could play with his strengths.

I admit I was wrong about him being able to step up this year but he just hasn't been able to work on his skating at all, unlike Lehkonen, and that's why one player is getting consistent top 9 ice time and the other is sitting in the press box. Lehkonen was always the better defensive player, I'm not denying that, but he was also having rough time in the physical side of things last year.

 

[FerrisRox]

I know points aren't everything but how you can say Lehkonen had one of the best rookie seasons for the Habs in some time for forwards but hate the guy that actually put up more points on a worse team while often playing on the same line if I'm not mistaken.

Because the Montreal Canadiens are not a hockey pool, they are a hockey team.

Putting up points is just a small part of the job of an NHL player. Playing defensively, killing penalties, finishing checks, being difficult to play against, playing solid positional hockey, lifting sticks, clogging up pass lanes, hustling for loose pucks, winning foot races ... all of these things are important parts of being an effective NHL forward and Charles Hudon flatlines in all of these aspects while Arturri Lehkonen excels at them.

I don't like Charles Hudon because I don't think he's an NHL player.

If you go back, I've been saying this for a few years now when guys were penciling him into the lineup. I don't think he has the skating ability to play in the NHL. I don't think he has the strength to play in the NHL. I don't think he does enough things required of being an NHL player to play in the NHL. What I was saying then, a few years back, is now clearly evident because he's proven it time and time again.

 

[FerrisRox]

He actually does get into the dirty areas, uses his body decently considering his size and contributes a lot when it comes to forechecking and backchecking.

I have never seen any of this from him at the NHL level.

Particularly using his body decently. That is straight-up fiction. He has zero strength, does not engage and is easily and repeatedly knocked off the puck as a result.

 

[Le Barron de HF]

I have never seen any of this from him at the NHL level.

Particularly using his body decently. That is straight-up fiction. He has zero strength, does not engage and is easily and repeatedly knocked off the puck as a result.

 

[FerrisRox]

What do you think this is proving? Once again he easily is neutralized and pinned to
the boards (by that powerhouse Pavel Zacha!) Because he knifes the loose puck away this ... proves what exactly?

 

[Milhouse40]

With Armia coming back in the line-up.....i don't we'll see much of Hudon anymore.
Can't get in while there's injuries, won't get any better

 

[Le Barron de HF]

What do you think this is proving? Once again he easily is neutralized and pinned to
the boards (by that powerhouse Pavel Zacha!) Because he knifes the loose puck away this ... proves what exactly?

You say he doesn't engage, how did he get 134 hits last year then? I showed you a video of him hustling and winning an important battle.

 

[FerrisRox]

You say he doesn't engage, how did he get 134 hits last year then? I showed you a video of him hustling and winning an important battle.

Winning a battle?



He stops moving his feet when he thinks he's going to get hit and instead gets rubbed out against the boards. How on earth is that hustling and winning a battle?

Did you even look at the clip you posted?

 

[26Mats]

Winning a battle?



He stops moving his feet when he thinks he's going to get hit and instead gets rubbed out against the boards. How on earth is that hustling and winning a battle?

Did you even look at the clip you posted?

Hudon's problems begin and end with his skating. There's nothing else wrong with his game. If he was a fast skater he'd a be a 40-50 point NHLer and fine defensively. Skating is the new size - without it only a few can survive in this league. And size is the new mullet - totally superfluous in today's game.

 

[montreal]

Because the Montreal Canadiens are not a hockey pool, they are a hockey team.

Putting up points is just a small part of the job of an NHL player. Playing defensively, killing penalties, finishing checks, being difficult to play against, playing solid positional hockey, lifting sticks, clogging up pass lanes, hustling for loose pucks, winning foot races ... all of these things are important parts of being an effective NHL forward and Charles Hudon flatlines in all of these aspects while Arturri Lehkonen excels at them.

I don't like Charles Hudon because I don't think he's an NHL player.

If you go back, I've been saying this for a few years now when guys were penciling him into the lineup. I don't think he has the skating ability to play in the NHL. I don't think he has the strength to play in the NHL. I don't think he does enough things required of being an NHL player to play in the NHL. What I was saying then, a few years back, is now clearly evident because he's proven in time and time again.

sounds like one of those posters desperate to pat themselves on the back, you hated Hudon, he had a good year last year and now he doesn't you get to say how you right you were but clearly you have a basis against him if you think Carr is better, which his what we disagreed on back then and still do. But if Hudon doesn't bounce back you can pat yourself on the back some more, way to go.

 

[FerrisRox]

sounds like one of those posters desperate to pat themselves on the back, you hated Hudon, he had a good year last year and now he doesn't you get to say how you right you were but clearly you have a basis against him if you think Carr is better, which his what we disagreed on back then and still do. But if Hudon doesn't bounce back you can pat yourself on the back some more, way to go.

The word is bias.

And I don't think you understand the word. Bias means you have a prejudice for or against a person or thing.

I don't have a prejudice when it comes to Charles Hudon. I just don't think he's good enough to play in the National Hockey League. I didn't then nor do I now "hate him" On the contrary, I hoped he'd succeed.

If you go back to my original posts about Hudon, I repeatedly said I hope I'm wrong and I hope he goes out and proves that I'm wrong. Why on earth do I need to "pat myself on the back?" I want the Montreal Canadiens to be good. I'd love it if they were able to get a fifth round pick that turned into a valuable contributor.

But he's not that guy and it appears he's not that guy for the very reasons I red-flagged a few years ago. He can't skate and he's not nearly strong enough to be able to go up and down the wings without getting pushed off the puck or taken out of the play.