Player Discussion Carey Price - You're Richer Than You Think Edition

[ahmedou]

Is it his fate to be left alone to itself? I feel sorry for Price. He's the only one who really cares about the CH.

 

[azcanuck]

I'm too young to have seen Roy play but the results speak for themselves. When Carey Price is injured or has a down year Montreal has been a lottery team during his career. Heck, in 2011-2012 he had average stats and they were a lottery team.

You don't win a cup with a lottery team + a star

He played on teams that finished 2,3, and 7th overall . He played on some pretty good teams. The results speak for themselves. Dont kid yourself with talk he's always had crap teams in front of him.
Yet we have a poster who says he was the "great" player (and his teamates were crap) who was responsible for the regular season records I posted above. YET he couldnt do the same in the playoffs ?
That's just a fact. He hasnt led the franchise to a long cup run like many goalies have.
I like him. I think he's a very good goalie. But not great until he does it in the playoffs.

 

[azcanuck]

Price played 40 minutes in the ECF.

Either Price is better in the playoffs than you are giving him credit for, or Binnington isnt as good as you are saying.
Binnington had:

• 7 sub .900 games.
• 3 sub .800 games.

Yet his team won the cup and he is superb. Price has the same save percentage as an average over his whole career and he isnt that good in the playoffs. That includes some bad playoff outings for Price earlier in his career.

I am not trying to diminish Binnington here but trying to see what your justifications of superb vs meh are.

I'm not just looking at save percentage and saying two goalies are the same.

My point is most great goalies have long playoff runs and /or cup wins. Bennington has. And he made the clutch saves at the right times if you watched the games.

Price has yet to do so. Until he does it will be a blight on his "greatness" moniker. That's just the way it works.

 

[Perrah]

I'm not just looking at save percentage and saying two goalies are the same.

My point is most great goalies have long playoff runs and /or cup wins. Bennington has. And he made the clutch saves at the right times if you watched the games.

Price has yet to do so. Until he does it will be a blight on his "greatness" moniker. That's just the way it works.

You arent looking at the teams either. All series clinching games The Blues staked him to a lead.

• Vs the Jets, Blues out shot them 27-6 in the first two periods. Up 3-0 early in the third.
• Vs Stars, Blues out shot them 41-17 in regulation, gave him the 1-0 lead.
• Vs Sharks, Blues out score them 10-1 in the final 2 games of the series, out shoot them 40-21 in game 5, out shot 26-19 in game 6 but up 2-0, game made 2-1 for 6 minutes of game play, 3-1, 4-1, 5-1.
• Vs Bruins, He made big saves early in game 7, 2-0 lead after one, win 4-1.

Looks to me like the Blues team gave him plenty of support in those games as well. Meanwhile in the Habs last 2 eliminating games they scored 1 goal in each game. Binnington doesnt have any claim to being great after one post season where he had good support. Have to re-visit his "great" resume once it has more than one playoffs on it. Niemi won a cup in his first playoffs as well.

 

[azcanuck]

You arent looking at the teams either. All series clinching games The blues staked him to a lead.

• Vs the Jets, Blues out shot them 27-6 in the first two periods. Up 3-0 early in the third.
• Vs Stars, Blues out shot them 41-17 in regulation, gave him the 1-0 lead.
• Vs Sharks, Blues out score them 10-1 in the final 2 games of the series, out shoot them 40-21 in game 5, out shot 26-19 in game 6 but up 2-0, game made 2-1 for 6 minutes of game play, 3-1, 4-1, 5-1.
• Vs Bruins, He made big saves early in game 7, 2-0 lead after one, win 4-1.

Looks to me like the Blues team gave him plenty of support in those games as well. Meanwhile in the Habs last 2 eliminating games they scored 1 goal in each game.

see above post. Bennington was part of a good team that peaked at the right time.
Life can be unfair. Bennington right place at right time and played very very well.
Price in the playoffs, I havent been as impressed.

 

[Perrah]

see above post. Bennington was part of a good team that peaked at the right time.
Life can be unfair. Bennington right place at right time and played very very well.
Price in the playoffs, I havent been as impressed.

You can make all the clutch saves you want. If the team you play on doesnt score you dont win.

 

[azcanuck]

You can make all the clutch saves you want. If the team you play on doesnt score you dont win.

I think that's been part of the problem for Price. If he was making so many "clutch" saves we would have won or at least had some runs in those years.

 

[abo9]

He played on teams that finished 2,3, and 7th overall . He played on some pretty good teams. The results speak for themselves. Dont kid yourself with talk he's always had crap teams in front of him.
Yet we have a poster who says he was the "great" player (and his teamates were crap) who was responsible for the regular season records I posted above. YET he couldnt do the same in the playoffs ?
That's just a fact. He hasnt led the franchise to a long cup run like many goalies have.
I like him. I think he's a very good goalie. But not great until he does it in the playoffs.

Ok so Habs ranked 2 in 2014-2015, 4th in 2012-2013 (shortened season), 8th in 2016-2017 and 10th in 2013-2014

No forward scored more than 67 points in all those 3 full seasons

I'll give you 2012-2013, Price played bad and the team stepped up.

2014-2015: habs finished 2nd. This was Price's claim to fame. He's won the Hart, Jennings, Vezina and Lindsay. His backup, Tokarski, also had significantly worst results. He's won the Ottawa series with an incredible effort and although he's had a bad 6 GA game against Tampa... Montreal managed to score only 1 goal in each of the other 3 losses.

2016-2017: Price did pretty amazing in the playoffs no? 1 2-goals game and the rest were 1 or 0.

2013-2014: Again,.. brought the Habs into the playoffs behind a terrible offense. A bit less impressive playoffs stats because of two Tampa games, but those near-perfect games against boston must count for nothing?

Note: Some of those teams might have made the playoffs with an "average" goalie, but he's the one who carried them to those "high" standings. They were not "pretty good", they were at best "average", with the shortened season being the best they have shown (Norris-level Subban for example). Patch, Subban, Markov, Price was always a good core, but management failed to surround them correctly.

Look at the Oilers, they have McDavid, Draisatl as stars + RNH and Klefbom who are good players. I'm surprised more people don't demand the head of McDavid for not having playoff success.

 

[Perrah]

I think that's been part of the problem for Price. If he was making so many "clutch" saves we would have won or at least had some runs in those years.

Let me know when clutch saves make the forwards score goals. How many clutch saves does Price have to make for Brian Gionta score in a 80% open net in game 3 OT of the 2011 playoffs? Instead of shooting it into Thomas pad. Would have been a 3-0 lead.

How many to get the forwards to score in OT of game 5 vs the rangers, 2017 playoffs, instead of losing?

Perhaps more clutch saves keeps Kreider from drop kicking him in the 2014 ECF, then he could make a run to your satisfaction. Upsetting the best team in the league the round before, giving up 1 goal in game 6 and 7 to win the series.

 

[Milhouse40]

So he himself did it in the regular season. But not in the playoffs . Because that was the teams fault. Okay Gotcha.

King Henry outplayed him in the ECF.

For a "great" goalie he's not done enough in the playoffs.
yes teams in front of you mean a lot.
but I've never seen him be a patrick Roy in the playoffs.
YET.

Price played 2 periods in the ECF. And technically, King Henry outplayed our offense, goalie doesn't play against each other.
But i gotcha, for you it's finals or nothing. And still, you expect Price to do what nobody else has done in the last 12 years, since he's in the league in fact.

 

[Beige Van]

He carried us past freaking Boston in '14. A huge upset and something Patrick Roy never did.

Not going to refute your argument about Price and the '14 Boston series, but Roy and the Avalanche beat the 131 point Red Wings in the '96 Conference finals. If that isn't a huge upset, I don't know what is.

 

[azcanuck]

Price played 2 periods in the ECF. And technically, King Henry outplayed our offense, goalie doesn't play against each other.
But i gotcha, for you it's finals or nothing. And still, you expect Price to do what nobody else has done in the last 12 years, since he's in the league in fact.

Yea he's got to carry the team or at least be part of a winning club. Finals is reasonable or maybe 2 or 3 CF's.

If posters say he "carried a team in the regular season" (everyone else was garbage) to the places that he did (2nd, 3rd and 7th overall), why didnt he do it in the playoffs?

 

[azcanuck]

Let me know when clutch saves make the forwards score goals. How many clutch saves does Price have to make for Brian Gionta score in a 80% open net in game 3 OT of the 2011 playoffs? Instead of shooting it into Thomas pad. Would have been a 3-0 lead.

How many to get the forwards to score in OT of game 5 vs the rangers, 2017 playoffs, instead of losing?

Perhaps more clutch saves keeps Kreider from drop kicking him in the 2014 ECF, then he could make a run to your satisfaction. Upsetting the best team in the league the round before, giving up 1 goal in game 6 and 7 to win the series.

Lot of "what if's" may surround his legacy.

 

[JSR 56]

Yea he's got to carry the team or at least be part of a winning club. Finals is reasonable or maybe 2 or 3 CF's.

If posters say he "carried a team in the regular season" (everyone else was garbage) to the places that he did (2nd, 3rd and 7th overall), why didnt he do it in the playoffs?

seems like you hold price to higher standards than other players
this isnt basketball where one player can carry a team to a championship.

 

[habsfan891]

I think that's been part of the problem for Price. If he was making so many "clutch" saves we would have won or at least had some runs in those years.

His team had a 1.8 gpga what do you want him to do get a shutout every game or score goals himself

 

[GordonGraham]

After yesterdays game he's about to rewrite the Habs record book once again by becoming the first one to reach 300 loses

 

[Milhouse40]

Yea he's got to carry the team or at least be part of a winning club. Finals is reasonable or maybe 2 or 3 CF's.

If posters say he "carried a team in the regular season" (everyone else was garbage) to the places that he did (2nd, 3rd and 7th overall), why didnt he do it in the playoffs?

Cause the competition in the PO is very different

 

[1909]

Not going to refute your argument about Price and the '14 Boston series, but Roy and the Avalanche beat the 131 point Red Wings in the '96 Conference finals. If that isn't a huge upset, I don't know what is.

Roy won two Stanley Cups almost by himself in 86 and 93....

 

[pepperMonkey]

He played on teams that finished 2,3, and 7th overall . He played on some pretty good teams. The results speak for themselves. Dont kid yourself with talk he's always had crap teams in front of him.
Yet we have a poster who says he was the "great" player (and his teamates were crap) who was responsible for the regular season records I posted above. YET he couldnt do the same in the playoffs ?
That's just a fact. He hasnt led the franchise to a long cup run like many goalies have.
I like him. I think he's a very good goalie. But not great until he does it in the playoffs.

Umm...sorry, since the last time we have won the cup, I have yet to watch a Habs team that I thought, "wow, that's a pretty good team". Not one season where I thought we had a sniffing chance at the cup. Or even get far in the playoffs. And those years we actually done well? Well, I was mostly astonished (truly truly shocked) we actually done well, considering the team that was fielded. Sorry, maybe my standards are higher but I have never felt we had a good team in front of Price. One that was trending up and promising? Sure. But actually good? Let alone great? Nope. Sorry. I mean, we haven't even had a true good #1 C during that period of time. Let alone a star #1 C. Heck, a star forward. We haven't had one of those during Price's time either. Again, sorry but at least to me, we have only had, at best, an average team that may have over achieved in front of Price, if not, and in most years, a crappy team in front of Price.

 

[Tighthead]

Roy won two Stanley Cups almost by himself in 86 and 93....

Of those 8 series wins which specific ones would you rate as upsets?

 

[Milhouse40]

Roy won two Stanley Cups almost by himself in 86 and 93....

That thing has to stop….Did Roy score any goals?
No, so he couldn't win by himself, was he the biggest reason we won the Cup? Yes he is.
Still need other player to win a cup….he had 3 hall of famer in front of him in 86 (Although i kind of agree with 93)

Still no player can't win the Cup alone, not a goalie, not a forwards, not a D
Nobody. It's and it will always be a Team's trophy.

The Conn Smuthe is an invidual throphy though...and he won it in both years. That he won all by itself.

 

[OldCraig71]

Is it his fate to be left alone to itself? I feel sorry for Price. He's the only one who really cares about the CH.

I believe that this might be the year when he asks to get out and could you blame him? If there is a taker, go for it, even if you have to retain a little, we are wasting the man's career here, give him the Ray Borque treatment, he deserves it.

 

[dkd]

He plays great once every 5-10 games and people still think he deserves his contract

 

[nhlfan9191]

Roy won two Stanley Cups almost by himself in 86 and 93....

No he didn’t. He may not have had teams like Dryden, Plante, etc. But there were hall of fame caliber players who knew how to win. To pretend he won cups by himself is laughable and has been thrown down our fans throats for decades. No great goalie we’ve had has “done it by themselves.” It’s the same way the media made Price as “being the entire team” during his prime. It’s exaggerated. This market wants a hero, and over the years, it’s usually a goalie, so they get to much credit when they play well, and get destroyed when they’re not. Rinse, repeat, recycle. Price isn’t the first and definitely won’t be the last to face this type of criticism here in Montreal as the league becomes tougher to win in.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I think that's been part of the problem for Price. If he was making so many "clutch" saves we would have won or at least had some runs in those years.

How the hell would we have won with those teams? Roy would not have won with those teams either. Again, he never won as a huge underdog either.

Absolutely true that the 86 and 93 Habs weren't expected to win. But he didn't play the Oilers or even the Flyers in 86 nor did he beat the Pens in '93. He played evenly matched tams or worse the whole way.