Player Discussion Carey Price - You're Richer Than You Think Edition

[salbutera]

I thought McCagg or some talking head posted a stat showing during Price’s tenure his teams have ranked on avg 25th in league scoring

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Price played on teams that finished 2nd, 3rd, and 7th overall.

As was pointed out to you (and you ignored) those teams were bottom third in all things not goaltending. They placed there largely because of Price.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I find his playooff performances to be somewhat of a letdown too. I find his entire career to be completely over hyped. He's in the mix as the top goalie of his career, but ppl act like he's the clear choice. I don't buy it and I don't buy all his teams were a mess.

He's a very good goalie. He will never be top 5 or top 10 all time like many seem to act like he is. Patrick Roy he'll never be.

He won't be top ten of all time. But I think that's largely because he's played on crappy teams. Lundqvist was a great goalie too but he was similarly on teams that were never good enough to win it (and ironically he only made it to the finals the year Price got hurt.)

If they were on better teams and won cups, they'd definitely be in the conversation. Unfortunately they weren't.

Unfair but it's the way it is.

And in Price's case (not so much with Lundqvist) injuries have also derailed his career somewhat. 2014 and 2016 are prime examples.

 

[azcanuck]

As was pointed out to you (and you ignored) those teams were bottom third in all things not goaltending. They placed there largely because of Price.

So if the regular season 'greatness" was on Price why is the failure in the playoffs not on price.
Cant have it both ways.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

So if the regular season 'greatness" was on Price why is the failure in the playoffs not on price.
Cant have it both ways.

I don't think it's a failure to put up .930 against the Rangers. The team failed, Price didn't. Now you can say he got "outgoaltended" all you want. Bottom line is that with your goalie doing .930 you should win the freaking series.

A failure would be Patrick Roy vs Boston. Those were series where we played well and he lost the series for us. And that happened several times. I can't think of a series where you could say we lost because of Price. Maybe his rookie year against Philly but his team didn't do anything there either.

 

[azcanuck]

I don't think it's a failure to put up .930 against the Rangers. The team failed, Price didn't. Now you can say he got "outgoaltended" all you want. Bottom line is that with your goalie doing .930 you should win the freaking series.

A failure would be Patrick Roy vs Boston. Those were series where we played well and he lost the series for us. And that happened several times. I can't think of a series where you could say we lost because of Price. Maybe his rookie year against Philly but his team didn't do anything there either.

Price. Never has led his team to anything in the playoffs.
Patrick Roy. 4 Stanley Cups. 4 conn Smyths. 10 straight overtime wins. highest save percentage and GAA of ANY goalie in between his two stanley cups with Montreal (1986-1993)
That's what I call clutch!!

 

[azcanuck]

I find his playooff performances to be somewhat of a letdown too. I find his entire career to be completely over hyped. He's in the mix as the top goalie of his career, but ppl act like he's the clear choice. I don't buy it and I don't buy all his teams were a mess.

He's a very good goalie. He will never be top 5 or top 10 all time like many seem to act like he is. Patrick Roy he'll never be.

The Price fans drink the Price pablum 24/7.
Like you say he's been a very good goalie for a long time playoff failures notwithstanding.

 

[BLONG7]

Price. Never has led his team to anything in the playoffs.
Patrick Roy. 4 Stanley Cups. 4 conn Smyths. 10 straight overtime wins. highest save percentage and GAA of ANY goalie in between his two stanley cups with Montreal (1986-1993)
That's what I call clutch!!

Go back and see if Desharnais and company were out in front of Roy? You will find a ton of hall of famers on both Habs cups, and the Avalance Cups.......no way is it a fair comparison at all.

Price during his career, has been the least of our worries...like him or not. Patrick Roy bailed on us when we were heading towards the gutter.

 

[azcanuck]

Go back and see if Desharnais and company were out in front of Roy? You will find a ton of hall of famers on both Habs cups, and the Avalance Cups.......no way is it a fair comparison at all.

Price during his career, has been the least of our worries...like him or not. Patrick Roy bailed on us when we were heading towards the gutter.

The way he played against Philly the other night. We need a lot more of that from the highest paid goalie in hockey.
Even Dominak Hasek led a average Buffalo team to the finals!! he was spectacular!!

 

[salbutera]

The way he played against Philly the other night. We need a lot more of that from the highest paid goalie in hockey.
Even Dominak Hasek led a average Buffalo team to the finals!! he was spectacular!!

There will never be another Hasek type performance due to removal of clutch & grab.

Habs hadn’t lost to Bruins in playoffs for over 40 years till Roy served up a stinker vs Reggie Lemelin in 88, got severely outplayed by Mike Vernon in 89, and a string of poor performances vs Bruins in 90, 91, and 92 - 93 would’ve been the same had it not been for Sabres pulling off a major upset vs Bruins.

Whenever Price has had HOF caliber players around him, he’s won....never had Gainey, Robinson, Tremblay, Carbonneau, Forsberg, Sakic...etc during Habs tenure

 

[azcanuck]

There will never be another Hasek type performance due to removal of clutch & grab.

Habs hadn’t lost to Bruins in playoffs for over 40 years till Roy served up a stinker vs Reggie Lemelin in 88, got severely outplayed by Mike Vernon in 89, and a string of poor performances vs Bruins in 90, 91, and 92 - 93 would’ve been the same had it not been for Sabres pulling off a major upset vs Bruins.

Whenever Price has had HOF caliber players around him, he’s won....never had Gainey, Robinson, Tremblay, Carbonneau...etc during Habs tenure

Roy never won the cup every year.

Price. ZERO cup runs or hardware in playoffs.

Roy? 4 Conn Smythe's. 4 Stanley Cups. 10 straight overtime wins.

Check this incredible stat out: In between Roy's two Montreal Cup wins (1986-1993) NOBODY had a better GAA or Save Percentage in the playoffs then Patrick. NOBODY!!!

Is anyone else surprised that both the Ave's and Montreal have won ZERO cups since Roy left!!???

 

[salbutera]

Roy never won the cup every year.

Price. ZERO cup runs or hardware in playoffs.

Roy? 4 Conn Smythe's. 4 Stanley Cups. 10 straight overtime wins.

Check this incredible stat out: In between Roy's two Montreal Cup wins (1986-1993) NOBODY had a better GAA or Save Percentage in the playoffs then Patrick. NOBODY!!!

Hockey is the ultimate team game, McDavid has ZERO Cups as did HOFers Marcel Dionne, Gilbert Perreault, and a plethora of others. Roy doesn’t win in 86 without Robinson, Green, Chelios and Lodwig in front of him and Claude Lemieux’s performance, and oh yeah had Steve Smith not scored in his own goal to eliminate Oilers no way Habs win it. 93 OT how about Leclair’s legendary OT heroics?

BTW - May want to check how Habs during Roy’s tenure from 85-86 through 91-92 were ALWAYS top-5 in D during regular season due to the Lemaire trap system implemented in 83-84 season and refined by Pat Burns....

 

[azcanuck]

Hockey is the ultimate team game, McDavid has ZERO Cups as did HOFers Marcel Dionne, Gilbert Perreault, and a plethora of others. Roy doesn’t win in 86 without Robinson, Green, Chelios and Lodwig in front of him and Claude Lemieux’s performance, and oh yeah had Steve Smith not scored in his own goal to eliminate Oilers no way Habs win it. 93 OT how about Leclair’s legendary OT heroics?

BTW - May want to check how Habs during Roy’s tenure from 85-86 through 91-92 were ALWAYS top-5 in D during regular season due to the Lemaire trap system implemented in 83-84 season and refined by Pat Burns....

We're talking Roy and price here.

Roy 4 cups. Two with two different organizations.
4 conn Smythe's . Think about that for a moment and let it sink in.
10 straight overtime playoff wins. How is that even possible!!
The best save percentage and GAA by ANY GOALIE in between his two Montreal Cup wins (1986-1993). If that doesnt define playoff greatness what does?


Price in the playoffs.........

 

[salbutera]

We're talking Roy and price here.

Roy 4 cups. Two with two different organizations.
4 conn Smythe's . Think about that for a moment and let it sink in.
10 straight overtime playoff wins. How is that even possible!!
The best save percentage and GAA by ANY GOALIE in between his two Montreal Cup wins (1986-1993). If that doesnt define playoff greatness what does?


Price in the playoffs.........

Question : did you ever actually watch Roy during his entire career from start to finish?

 

[azcanuck]

Question : did you ever actually watch Roy during his entire career from start to finish?

Absolutely.
I was a fanatic fan. We drove up from Thunder Bay to Winnipeg as teenagers in his rookie season to watch him play.
I never missed one single Montreal Canadians playoff game when Roy played!! He was the most spectacular clutch goalie i have ever seen!!

 

[salbutera]

Absolutely.
I was a fanatic fan. We drove up from Thunder Bay to Winnipeg as teenagers in his rookie season to watch him play.
I never missed one single Montreal Canadians playoff game when Roy played!! He was the most spectacular clutch goalie i have ever seen!!

So what about the 87 flameout vs Quebec or 88, 90,91,92 vs Bruins or 89 vs Flames or inability to beat Hasek in 98 Nagano and chickening our for 2002 Olympics?

 

[azcanuck]

So what about the 87 flameout vs Quebec or 88, 90,91,92 vs Bruins or 89 vs Flames or inability to beat Hasek in 98 Nagano and chickening our for 2002 Olympics?

What about :
4 Stanley cups.
3 conn Smyth Trophies. (earlier i said 4 , my aplogies)
10 straight overtime wins.
The best save percentage and GAA by ANY GOALIE in between his two Montreal Cup wins (1986-1993).
23 playoff shutouts
151 playoff wins,
3rd best Save Percentage of all time in playoffs(tuuka rask and tim thomas ahead of him only)

Whether you use statistics or not, Patrick Roy is unquestionably the bar against which all other goalies are measured.

 

[peate]

Roy was great, but he pissed us off many times with his sloppy play. Goes both ways, for all goalies.

 

[azcanuck]

Roy was great, but he pissed us off many times with his sloppy play. Goes both ways, for all goalies.

only one small difference between Roy and "all goalies".

Roy is greatest playoff goalie of all time!!

 

[BLONG7]

only one small difference between Roy and "all goalies".

Roy is greatest playoff goalie of all time!!

Ken Dryden..............6 Cups in 8 years.

You make some good points about Roy, but it seems your memories are selective. Roy as mentioned had some god awful playoff years, and was scared to death of Bourque/Neely/MacInnis slapshots during his habs playoff failures....with hall of famers in the lineup in front of him. Price has ZERO hall of famers in front of him, his entire career.

Apples/Oranges.

 

[BLONG7]

What about :
4 Stanley cups.
3 conn Smyth Trophies. (earlier i said 4 , my aplogies)
10 straight overtime wins.
The best save percentage and GAA by ANY GOALIE in between his two Montreal Cup wins (1986-1993).
23 playoff shutouts
151 playoff wins,
3rd best Save Percentage of all time in playoffs(tuuka rask and tim thomas ahead of him only)

Whether you use statistics or not, Patrick Roy is unquestionably the bar against which all other goalies are measured.

Martin Brodeur would just smile, and say, ya think so? He too amassed some scary numbers during his run.

 

[Tighthead]

Roy was great, but he pissed us off many times with his sloppy play. Goes both ways, for all goalies.

Roy was absolutely mercurial, rarely consistent.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Price. Never has led his team to anything in the playoffs.

Roy wouldn't have led this team anywhere either...

Patrick Roy. 4 Stanley Cups. 4 conn Smyths. 10 straight overtime wins. highest save percentage and GAA of ANY goalie in between his two stanley cups with Montreal (1986-1993)
That's what I call clutch!!

Great goalie. Absolutely great. Inconsistent in the postseason but when he was on he was phenomenal. No matter what team was in front of him he was a great goalie.

But he never, ever had to deal with the clown show that Price has for almost his whole career. As soon as this team started going downhill he bolted - for an awesome team.

Martin Brodeur would just smile, and say, ya think so? He too amassed some scary numbers during his run.

There's another guy with a great team in front of him.

And again... Brodeur was great no matter what. But great goalie behind a great team, you're going to win some cups.

He wouldn't have won cups here either.

So what about the 87 flameout vs Quebec or 88, 90,91,92 vs Bruins or 89 vs Flames or inability to beat Hasek in 98 Nagano and chickening our for 2002 Olympics?

The Team Canada one is interesting. People keep talking about how Price's Canada gold doesn't count but don't acknowledge that Roy lost to a far inferior team and never won gold himself...

Roy will always have the better resume. There's no getting around that. He'll be remembered as one of the best ever (mostly for his two cups in Montreal) and that's deserved.

But for all the talk of him being clutch in the playoffs, Price has been a lot more consistent over his career than Roy was.

Another strike against Price is the injuries. Sucks that he got hurt in '13 and '14 postseason. Then when he's off his Vezina he misses most of '16. Sucked for us.

Ken Dryden..............6 Cups in 8 years.

You make some good points about Roy, but it seems your memories are selective. Roy as mentioned had some god awful playoff years, and was scared to death of Bourque/Neely/MacInnis slapshots during his habs playoff failures....with hall of famers in the lineup in front of him. Price has ZERO hall of famers in front of him, his entire career.

Apples/Oranges.

Dryden also beat the Goliath Bruins and Hawks in '71. And he did it on an aging team that was expected to go nowhere. That is absolutely crazy.

 

[Tighthead]

Roy wouldn't have led this team anywhere either...


Great goalie. Absolutely great. Inconsistent in the postseason but when he was on he was phenomenal. No matter what team was in front of him he was great.

But he never, ever had to deal with the clown show that Price has for almost his whole career. As soon as this team started going downhill he bolted - for an awesome team.

For me personally I fully respect that Roy wasn't going to let Tremblay humble him. It wasn't as simple as an erosion of talent the team was experiencing, it was a sea change in the direction of incompetence and instability.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

For me personally I fully respect that Roy wasn't going to let Tremblay humble him. It wasn't as simple as an erosion of talent the team was experiencing, it was a sea change in the direction of incompetence and instability.

The way he left is really a discussion for another thread. What's indisputable though is that he left this team when it was on the way down and never had to deal with the brutal teams that Price has been on.

And (this is a bit off topic but it has to be mentioned again) those teams should've played a lot better than they did. Who the hell plays DD on the first? That was insane.