Confirmed Trade: [CAR/BUF] Jeff Skinner for 2019 2nd, 2020 3rd and 6th, and Cliff Pu Part II

[The don godfather]

Then why didn't they?

Carolina wouldn't have turned down more value elsewhere to trade him to Buffalo. Either his NMC put downward pressure on the return or Skinner's value wasn't as high as these threads would lead you to believe. It could be somewhere in between.

skinner has scored as many goals as seguin the last 5 years. His value is high. I don't think he was properly shopped around. Knee jerk reaction trade is what I see here.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

skinner has scored as many goals as seguin the last 5 years. His value is high. I don't think he was properly shopped around. Knee jerk reaction trade is what I see here.

Seguin has scored 33 more goals than Skinner since 13-14.

NHL.com - Stats

...

Skinner has been on the block for months and the Canes were quite public about it. Not being "properly shopped around" doesn't fly. It's the interested parties that determine how much a player is worth, not Waddell's skills as a salesman. If you want to criticize the decision to trade him for that price in lieu of bringing him back and trading him later, knee jerk, that's potentially a fair point. However, the value wasn't going to get better in the short-term. It was what it was. That's all the market would bear.

 

[The don godfather]

Seguin has scored 33 more goals than Skinner since 13-14.

NHL.com - Stats

...

Skinner has been on the block for months and the Canes were quite public about it. Not being "properly shopped around" doesn't fly. It's the interested parties that determine how much a player is worth, not Waddell's skills as a salesman. If you want to criticize the decision to trade him for that price in lieu of bringing him back and trading him later, knee jerk, that's potentially a fair point. However, the value wasn't going to get better in the short-term. It was what it was. That's all the market would bear.

Personally i feel wadell got hosed. I just hope pu turns into a 30 goal scorer he has the skills that's for sure.

 

[Pens x]

Personally i feel wadell got hosed. I just hope pu turns into a 30 goal scorer he has the skills that's for sure.

It would feel weird if Waddell won a trade

 

[Lempo]

What does it say about me? That favouring reality over fantasy is a shameful / dirty pursuit?

It's funny to think that this could be taken verbatim from the letter col of a mid-19th century arts&culture publication.

 

[Djp]

Well I am not going to tell you about math because that would be insulting.

This is not open to perversion or opinion. The numbers and the quality of players involved are factual.

Cliff Pu hasn't played a NHL game. The rest of the trade involves draft picks and likely long shots to make the NHL.

The quantity is certainly there...

Go ahead...show me YOUR version of math.....

 

[madinsomniac]

Meh last year there was a high market for wingers... it’s possible that fewer teams are in the market for a top end winger this year... value fluctuates by supply and demand... and demand fluctuates on positional need, cap space, and building plan...

 

[grapes55]

I disagree.....


This a is deadline deal moved up to the start of the season because the GM/coach didn't want this distraction affecting the locker room.


the debate is around the return

Some will say he should have gotten backa 1st but with the lottery and teamsuncertain where they would end up they don't want to trade a 1st at this time of year. Ones that do have lottery.playoff protections on the pick.

equivalent to a playoff 1st are 2 2nds

equivalent to a 2nd is a 3rd and a B prospect


this is not a quantity for quality trade.

a quantity for quality trade would be where its not an impending UFA to be and he is a clear top line/top pair Dman and returns a few secondary depth players.

You literally just described a "quality for quantity" trade. Jeff Skinner is without a doubt the most valuable asset in the deal, there's your quality piece, and Cliff Pu + the 3 picks are less valuable assets that he was traded for (aka quantity). Skinner being a UFA doesn't change the fact that he was dealt for quantity pieces.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

Has anything been written about whether Buffalo agreed to continue his no-trade clause or is it no longer intact? It changes the whole value of the trade if Sabres too are restricted at the deadline. I keep looking for this with no answers

 

[Djp]

You literally just described a "quality for quantity" trade. Jeff Skinner is without a doubt the most valuable asset in the deal, there's your quality piece, and Cliff Pu + the 3 picks are less valuable assets that he was traded for (aka quantity). Skinner being a UFA doesn't change the fact that he was dealt for quantity pieces.

Then call all deadline deals quantity for quality deals.

I don’t define deadline deals as quantity for quality deals

Quantity fir quality comes when the main player moved have term left of more than 1 season.

As I described in my post is it’s an equivalence argument

One team might offer a 1st because the feel they are a certain playoff team and the pick is 26-31. Other team is trying to make the playoffs and don’t want to trade a mid terns pick but they are uncaring if they could get the pick to the mid 20s. Instead they offer 2 2nds.

It’s common at deadline over the years to see veteran Dmen who aren’t top pair get a 2nd+2nd-5th and/or prospect

 

[The S5]

It would feel weird if Waddell won a trade

Forget the Hamilton trade already?

 

[The S5]

Meh last year there was a high market for wingers... it’s possible that fewer teams are in the market for a top end winger this year... value fluctuates by supply and demand... and demand fluctuates on positional need, cap space, and building plan...

That is, if you consider Skinner a top end winger. Personally, give me a guy who scores 1o less goals but shows up every shift and plays a 200 foot game. Skinner doesn't.

 

[Panthaz89]

That is, if you consider Skinner a top end winger. Personally, give me a guy who scores 1o less goals but shows up every shift and plays a 200 foot game. Skinner doesn't.

not too many wingers in the NHL do that and if they did they aren't going to be traded for the same price. Wingers don't have to be as responsible as centers do on defense.

 

[Seanaconda]

Has anything been written about whether Buffalo agreed to continue his no-trade clause or is it no longer intact? It changes the whole value of the trade if Sabres too are restricted at the deadline. I keep looking for this with no answers

Pretty sure the ntc stays in effect after trades unless the player is traded before it starts

 

[spockBokk]

Pretty sure the ntc stays in effect after trades unless the player is traded before it starts

Agree, why would Skinner waive to go to BUF, a team who has quite the history of dealing players at the deadline, without ensuring his NMC stayed in effect?

Sorry BUF fans, if you’re out of the playoff race by the deadline, your GM will have the same issue as CAR did in moving him.

 

[Negan4Coach]

Agree, why would Skinner waive to go to BUF, a team who has quite the history of dealing players at the deadline, without ensuring his NMC stayed in effect?

Sorry BUF fans, if you’re out of the playoff race by the deadline, your GM will have the same issue as CAR did in moving him.

It kind of blows my mind that Skinner would waive to go to Buffalo of all teams yet probably nixed all kinds of good teams we could have gotten a good deal for. Is being close to home really that important for a young man? When I joined the Army IDGAF where they sent me, and I grew up in the Hamptons FFS.

 

[grapes55]

Then call all deadline deals quantity for quality deals.

I don’t define deadline deals as quantity for quality deals

Quantity fir quality comes when the main player moved have term left of more than 1 season.

As I described in my post is it’s an equivalence argument

One team might offer a 1st because the feel they are a certain playoff team and the pick is 26-31. Other team is trying to make the playoffs and don’t want to trade a mid terns pick but they are uncaring if they could get the pick to the mid 20s. Instead they offer 2 2nds.

It’s common at deadline over the years to see veteran Dmen who aren’t top pair get a 2nd+2nd-5th and/or prospect

Personally, yes I would refer to deadline deals as quality for quantity because well, that's exactly what they are lol. I just don't see how a player's term would change the fact that one asset is being traded for a collection of lesser assets.

 

[Seanaconda]

It kind of blows my mind that Skinner would waive to go to Buffalo of all teams yet probably nixed all kinds of good teams we could have gotten a good deal for. Is being close to home really that important for a young man? When I joined the Army IDGAF where they sent me, and I grew up in the Hamptons FFS.

Probably waived because he will be on eichels wing and it's a contract year. If buffalo sucks at the deadline he may waive for a contender. He will get a great center and all the pp time he wants on buff.

 

[10Ducky10]

Probably waived because he will be on eichels wing and it's a contract year. If buffalo sucks at the deadline he may waive for a contender. He will get a great center and all the pp time he wants on buff.

I agree. He will score 30+ goals and he will also help Eichel have a breakthrough season. With Skinner on the LW and Sam Reinhart or Okposo on the right side, they would have one helluva formidable line. I'm not sure where they have been playing Reinhart?

 

[Pens x]

This trade will be a nice little tax write-off as a charitable gift, for the Canes, since they donated Skinner to Buffalo.

 

[Seanaconda]

I agree. He will score 30+ goals and he will also help Eichel have a breakthrough season. With Skinner on the LW and Sam Reinhart or Okposo on the right side, they would have one helluva formidable line. I'm not sure where they have been playing Reinhart?

Eichels or RORs rw. Might be on mittlestadts because Reinhart is defensively responsible but who knows.

 

[10Ducky10]

Eichels or RORs rw. Might be on middlestats because Reinhart is defensively responsible but who knows.

ROR???

I meant that I didn't know if he was getting more time on the wing or at center.

 

[Seanaconda]

ROR???

I meant that I didn't know if he was getting more time on the wing or at center.

He has been rw on those two lines the past couple years . I guess they could try him at center now that ror is gone but it seems like he's found his place on the wing

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

Agree, why would Skinner waive to go to BUF, a team who has quite the history of dealing players at the deadline, without ensuring his NMC stayed in effect?

Sorry BUF fans, if you’re out of the playoff race by the deadline, your GM will have the same issue as CAR did in moving him.

Factually wrong. Once you waive NTC it is lost. That is unless the Sabres agreed to reinstall the clause to get him to waive it in the first place.
It’s a very obvious question I have yet to see answered in the media.
It does not automatically carry. That’s just wrong.

 

[Mr Positive]

Factually wrong. Once you waive NTC it is lost. That is unless the Sabres agreed to reinstall the clause to get him to waive it in the first place.
It’s a very obvious question I have yet to see answered in the media.
It does not automatically carry. That’s just wrong.

I believe you are wrong on that one. The only way a NTC gets nixed is if you trade for a player and it hasn't activated yet. In that case, the team can opt out of it, but otherwise it persists.