Confirmed Trade: [CAR/BUF] Jeff Skinner for 2019 2nd, 2020 3rd and 6th, and Cliff Pu Part II

[Boom Boom Apathy]

But Buffalo could make the playoffs being in the division top 3....

While nobody knows for sure how a team will fare year to year, how do you think the Sabres stack up against Tampa, Toronto and Boston as well as Florida in the Atlantic? That's a serious question (not a sarcastic comment). On the surface, TBL, TOR and BOS seem to be the cream of the crop in the Atlantic, but of course, that's on paper.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

While nobody knows for sure how a team will fare year to year, how do you think the Sabres stack up against Tampa, Toronto and Boston as well as Florida in the Atlantic? That's a serious question (not a sarcastic comment). On the surface, TBL, TOR and BOS seem to be the cream of the crop in the Atlantic, but of course, that's on paper.

Toronto and Tampa are cinches for top 2. Maybe Boston could fall to 4th? But it'd be a long shot.

 

[Baksfamous112]

Toronto and Tampa are cinches for top 2. Maybe Boston could fall to 4th? But it'd be a long shot.

No, they’re not. People forgot that Tampa missed the playoff two years ago despite having roughly the same team. Also, is Toronto really a lock? They added Tavares but sacrified a 35G scorer, a top 2 C and a top 6 W in the process. Their D is no better than last year and their depth is questionable, at best.

Last year, they stacked 100+ points because Ottawa, Buffalo, Montreal all had mediocre year with Floride having a terrible first half of the season. The Antlantic will be MUCH more conpetitive this year and I wouldn’t be surprise to see one of Tampa Bay, Boston or Toronto miss the playoff

 

[biotk]

Last year, they stacked 100+ points because Ottawa, Buffalo, Montreal all had mediocre year with Floride having a terrible first half of the season. The Antlantic will be MUCH more conpetitive this year and I wouldn’t be surprise to see one of Tampa Bay, Boston or Toronto miss the playoff

I think that any team can fall out of playoffs. Tampa the year before and Edmonton last year are good examples.

But saying that Toronto stacked 100+ because of Ottawa, Buffalo, and Montreal is completely not true. If you remove their results against those 3 teams they were still on pace for 105 points. The exact same. The same goes for Tampa and Boston.

If you remove the games each team in the NHL played against Ottawa, Buffalo and Montreal and then adjusted all teams to 82 games again. Tampa, Boston and Toronto would still have been the top 3 teams in the East (except that Toronto would no longer be tied for 3rd with Washington - they would instead be 2 points ahead of them). And as Florida was actually the team in the Atlantic that beat up on Montreal, Ottawa, and Buffalo the gap that Toronto had over Florida would increase from 19 points to 24. The only real changes in the NHL would be that Pittsburgh would drop from 5th to 8th in the East (with NJ moving up), and in the West Minny would fall into a wildcard spot (with Col moving up).

It was actually the Metro teams that beat up on Ottawa, Buffalo and Montreal. Remember, that while the Atlantic plays against those three teams 4 times each, the Metro still plays against them 3 times each, and the West twice each.

Tampa, Boston and Toronto all played as well against good teams as they did against bad teams.

 

[Not Sure]

Funny how perceptions work. If Carolina had gotten a late 1st, Pu, and a 6th, people would probably be saying "That's about the return a deadline deal and a fair deal considering his NMC". Instead, they got a 2nd, 3rd, Pu and a 6th and people are saying they got fleeced.

I know many fans wanted a "roster player" back, but what team is trading a roster player for a guy that is basically a 1 year rental? I don't recall too many "good" roster players being the return for a rental in recent years, but maybe I'm mistaken.

Roster players come back on rentals when they need to dump the contract or salary. No ones giving up a useful player on a playoff team for 1 year unless it a marquee player.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Roster players come back on rentals when they need to dump the contract or salary. No ones giving up a useful player on a playoff team for 1 year unless it a marquee player.

True. That's why I said "good" roster players. Usually dumping salaries or contracts aren't very good players.

 

[Tall Morty]

No, they’re not. People forgot that Tampa missed the playoff two years ago despite having roughly the same team. Also, is Toronto really a lock? They added Tavares but sacrified a 35G scorer, a top 2 C and a top 6 W in the process. Their D is no better than last year and their depth is questionable, at best.

Last year, they stacked 100+ points because Ottawa, Buffalo, Montreal all had mediocre year with Floride having a terrible first half of the season. The Antlantic will be MUCH more conpetitive this year and I wouldn’t be surprise to see one of Tampa Bay, Boston or Toronto miss the playoff

Wow, talk about stretching the truth to make a point. Yes, if Tampa is decimated by injuries again, they could miss the playoffs. That is literally true for any team.

Yes, the Leafs lost a 36 goal scorer and a ‘top 2C’ (which in itself is hilarious because when he was in Toronto all we ever heard was how Bozak would barely be a 3C on a contender), but they’re being replaced by players who know what defense is. Offense is the least of this team’s worries.

I don’t even know who you’re referring to when you say they lost a top 6 winger... Komarov? Martin? Either way, by the end of the season, one was a healthy scratch and the other was a barely passable 4th liner.

Please take a look at the Leafs’ record against the Atlantic before you say that’s the only reason they got 100+ points.

 

[Team Cozens]

Toronto and Tampa are cinches for top 2. Maybe Boston could fall to 4th? But it'd be a long shot.

Cinches? Injuries to Anderson and Tavares and Leafs are in trouble. It’s not likely but it’s why they play the regular season. Ya never know.

 

[Djp]

While nobody knows for sure how a team will fare year to year, how do you think the Sabres stack up against Tampa, Toronto and Boston as well as Florida in the Atlantic? That's a serious question (not a sarcastic comment). On the surface, TBL, TOR and BOS seem to be the cream of the crop in the Atlantic, but of course, that's on paper.

the year before in 14/15 Tampa Bay didn't make the playoffs with the same club.

roughly 94 points is the playoff line. This may change from year to year because of how close teams are bunched up. If you have-6-7 teams fighting for the 2 wild card spots and a divisional spot then the point totals may be lower than if you have a situation where only 3 are fighting for the final 2 spots.

Its easy to see 10-15 point swings by teams.

Over the past 5 seasons you have seen a team in the bottom 5 turn it around and get into the playoffs.

anything is possible.

In the east it looks like you have

Montreal at the bottom, Detroit and Ottawa next
Buffalo and florida in the wild card hunt
Toronot, Tampa, and Boston are the favorites given they made the playoffs.

the key factors for Buffalo will be:

1. confidence
2 confidence
3. strong start out of the gates--being in top 3 at end of October


Buffalo has 2 high drafted players playing their first full year in Mittlestadt and Dahlin

My preference would be if they could acquire a solid middle pairing Dman before the start of the season to play with Dahlin. Bogosian could be that if he could stay healthy

Scandella-Ristolainen
Dahllin-Bogosian
McCabe-Nelson
Hunwick

They could sign Enstrom to a 1-2 yr deal. (I believe he is still unsigned)

The uncertainty right now is how the lines would be at forward

what I see as of now:

Sheary-Eichel-xxx
Berglund-Mittlestadt-Okposo
Girgensons-Reinhart-Skinner
Sobatka-Larsson-xxx

xxx are open spots for Wilson, Bailey, Baptiste, Pominville, Rodrigues and other players still waiver exempt


I do see another trade happening where Buffalo moves something like Girgensons/Larsson+ Bailey/Baptiste+ possibly one of their Dmen (Bealieu, McCabe, Nelson) for a single player coming back.

 

[Kublakhan]

the year before in 14/15 Tampa Bay didn't make the playoffs with the same club.

roughly 94 points is the playoff line. This may change from year to year because of how close teams are bunched up. If you have-6-7 teams fighting for the 2 wild card spots and a divisional spot then the point totals may be lower than if you have a situation where only 3 are fighting for the final 2 spots.

Its easy to see 10-15 point swings by teams.

Over the past 5 seasons you have seen a team in the bottom 5 turn it around and get into the playoffs.

anything is possible.

In the east it looks like you have

Montreal at the bottom, Detroit and Ottawa next
Buffalo and florida in the wild card hunt
Toronot, Tampa, and Boston are the favorites given they made the playoffs.

the key factors for Buffalo will be:

1. confidence
2 confidence
3. strong start out of the gates--being in top 3 at end of October


Buffalo has 2 high drafted players playing their first full year in Mittlestadt and Dahlin

My preference would be if they could acquire a solid middle pairing Dman before the start of the season to play with Dahlin. Bogosian could be that if he could stay healthy

Scandella-Ristolainen
Dahllin-Bogosian
McCabe-Nelson
Hunwick

They could sign Enstrom to a 1-2 yr deal. (I believe he is still unsigned)

The uncertainty right now is how the lines would be at forward

what I see as of now:

Sheary-Eichel-xxx
Berglund-Mittlestadt-Okposo
Girgensons-Reinhart-Skinner
Sobatka-Larsson-xxx

xxx are open spots for Wilson, Bailey, Baptiste, Pominville, Rodrigues and other players still waiver exempt


I do see another trade happening where Buffalo moves something like Girgensons/Larsson+ Bailey/Baptiste+ possibly one of their Dmen (Bealieu, McCabe, Nelson) for a single player coming back.

I agree with everything here but I think that ship as Sam playing centre has sailed.. I can only see him as a great right wing ..

 

[The don godfather]

Toronto and Tampa are cinches for top 2. Maybe Boston could fall to 4th? But it'd be a long shot.

Bruins probably will win division or at least second. As long as you have jake deer in the headlights Gardiner no way leafs d get pass the bruins. That's what did them in 2013 and last year. The most delicate d I have ever seen.

 

[thedustman]

the year before in 14/15 Tampa Bay didn't make the playoffs with the same club.

roughly 94 points is the playoff line. This may change from year to year because of how close teams are bunched up. If you have-6-7 teams fighting for the 2 wild card spots and a divisional spot then the point totals may be lower than if you have a situation where only 3 are fighting for the final 2 spots.

Its easy to see 10-15 point swings by teams.

Over the past 5 seasons you have seen a team in the bottom 5 turn it around and get into the playoffs.

anything is possible.

In the east it looks like you have

Montreal at the bottom, Detroit and Ottawa next
Buffalo and florida in the wild card hunt
Toronot, Tampa, and Boston are the favorites given they made the playoffs.

the key factors for Buffalo will be:

1. confidence
2 confidence
3. strong start out of the gates--being in top 3 at end of October


Buffalo has 2 high drafted players playing their first full year in Mittlestadt and Dahlin

My preference would be if they could acquire a solid middle pairing Dman before the start of the season to play with Dahlin. Bogosian could be that if he could stay healthy

Scandella-Ristolainen
Dahllin-Bogosian
McCabe-Nelson
Hunwick

They could sign Enstrom to a 1-2 yr deal. (I believe he is still unsigned)

The uncertainty right now is how the lines would be at forward

what I see as of now:

Sheary-Eichel-xxx
Berglund-Mittlestadt-Okposo
Girgensons-Reinhart-Skinner
Sobatka-Larsson-xxx

xxx are open spots for Wilson, Bailey, Baptiste, Pominville, Rodrigues and other players still waiver exempt


I do see another trade happening where Buffalo moves something like Girgensons/Larsson+ Bailey/Baptiste+ possibly one of their Dmen (Bealieu, McCabe, Nelson) for a single player coming back.

I like the logic here, and agree completely about the middling d-man.
However, i think it would be sinister to not put skinner with eichel and sheary on that first line, and i see the lines more like this:

Sheary-eichel-skinner
Reinhart-berglund-rodrigues
Sobotka-mittl-okposo
Girgensons-larsson-xxx

With berglund flipping into shearys spot and reinhart centering sheary and rodrigues.
Okposo switches with rodrigues if there is turmoil. Berglund is the one you want going to center, in terms of the switch hitters available.
Otherwise, that’s a damn good break down of the sabres season. Good thinkin

 

[Yatzhee]

I like the logic here, and agree completely about the middling d-man.
However, i think it would be sinister to not put skinner with eichel and sheary on that first line, and i see the lines more like this:

Sheary-eichel-skinner
Reinhart-berglund-rodrigues
Sobotka-mittl-okposo
Girgensons-larsson-xxx

With berglund flipping into shearys spot and reinhart centering sheary and rodrigues.
Okposo switches with rodrigues if there is turmoil. Berglund is the one you want going to center, in terms of the switch hitters available.
Otherwise, that’s a damn good break down of the sabres season. Good thinkin

I'm positive Middlestadt is going to be on the opening night roster this coming season. All indications from GM Botterill's comments thus far have indicated such.
I can't really do a line up on the forwards until I see where they plan to play Reinhart (C or RW) and where they plan to slot Middlestadt (2nd or 3rd line C).
What we see so far is this for the coming season as far as forwards...….

LW C RW
Skinner Eichel Reinhart
Sheary Middlestadt Okposo
Sobotka Berglund Pominville

Girgensons, Larsson, Rodrigues, Wilson

Listed them by their known positions, but as always, subject to change.
The important thing for all hockey fans to remember when looking at the Sabres roster is the glut of over all forwards. Of those I listed, only Middlestadt will be on his ELC.
Here is a list of Buffalo's depth pool with some input:

RW
Justin Bailey
Nick Baptiste
Both are 23, both are quality speed, NHL ready RW'ers. They both just signed a 1 year deal. Something is going to give with these 2 in my opinion, they are both line 2 to 4 ready.
I can't see them both in Rochester with the Americans this season.

LW
C.J. Smith
Danny O'Regan
Matt Moulson
Alex Nylander
Olofsson
Nylander is only 20, needs more time in the AHL for sure. Moulson is not coming back to the Sabres roster, speed is gone, he'll ride out this last year of his contract in the AHL unless Bots can find a suitable taker that Moulson would agree to, and that's fine. Buffalo has the cap room to eat that last season.
O'Regan and C.J. Smith are very interesting indeed, 24 and 23 respectively they are both going to push hard for roster spots since their both on 1 yr deals.
Smith is fast with hands LW'er, O'Regan I haven't seen enough of to really say what he could be, I'll defer to San Jose fans on him since he came over in the Kane trade. May just be an AHL'er/depth player. By all accounts to date, the former 7th round sleeper pick and one of the top scorers in the SHL, Olofsson appears to be poised at 23 yrs old to push for an immediate roster spot or perhaps in a month or 2 stint in the AHL.

C
Oglevie
Malone
Asplund
Buffalo signed Oglevie for a reason. He is another 23 yr old. May need a couple of months in the AHL to truly assess, but there is definitive thinking from the Sabres here.
Malone, 23 yrs old, appears to be building a well rounded line 3 or 4 center game to date. Asplund is 20 but spent a couple of seasons like Olofsson in the Swedish mens league (SHL). That very well could translate to an early entrance to the Sabres roster once he acclimates to the North American game.

There are others, but those are the mainstays of the Sabres forward situation as it stands in now, in my opinion of course.
When you look at Botterill's statements combined with Housely's, about getting faster, all that youth that appears poised to take the next step up to the big league, it shouldn't come as a surprise if more moves are on the immediate horizon as well as in season. Currently, I see at least 2, maybe 4 current forward roster players that very well may be gone before the season starts or by mid season as this youth pushes for the roster.
One thing is certain for sure, the Sabres have definitely created a high competitive environment within the organization to push all of these players to show what they have. There can be little doubt some surprises are coming via training camp and pre-season.

And that is just my take on the forward ranks. Don't get me started on the defense, because if you take a look at the Sabres moves and depth to date, they are LD heavy, up and down the organizational depth chart. This is what leads me to firmly believe more moves are coming.

 

[Jame]

No, they’re not. People forgot that Tampa missed the playoff two years ago despite having roughly the same team.

I guess people forget that Stamkos missed most of the season...

Tampa is as much of a playoff lock as any team in the league this year.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

Bruins probably will win division or at least second. As long as you have jake deer in the headlights Gardiner no way leafs d get pass the bruins. That's what did them in 2013 and last year. The most delicate d I have ever seen.

I could understand your reservations about Toronto's D, but what explanation do you have for Boston being a favorite to finish ahead of Tampa?

 

[ColbyChaos]

the year before in 14/15 Tampa Bay didn't make the playoffs with the same club.

 

[Voight]

 

[CatsforReinhart]

Funny how perceptions work. If Carolina had gotten a late 1st, Pu, and a 6th, people would probably be saying "That's about the return a deadline deal and a fair deal considering his NMC". Instead, they got a 2nd, 3rd, Pu and a 6th and people are saying they got fleeced.

I know many fans wanted a "roster player" back, but what team is trading a roster player for a guy that is basically a 1 year rental? I don't recall too many "good" roster players being the return for a rental in recent years, but maybe I'm mistaken.

Thats not perception. They didn't get a late first and that is reality.

 

[A1LeafNation]

From Skinners interview, it sounds like he is interested in playing with Eichel, upping his value for a payday next july, then bolting.

 

[is the answer jesus]

From Skinners interview, it sounds like he is interested in playing with Eichel, upping his value for a payday next july, then bolting.

Comments like yours are why Leafs fans get a bad name. I'll leave it at that.

 

[Pens x]

Skinner is going to hit 600+ games of never playing in a playoff game after this season.

Ron Hainsey junior

 

[Not Sure]

From Skinners interview, it sounds like he is interested in playing with Eichel, upping his value for a payday next july, then bolting.

From his interview it sounds like hes interested in playing with Eichel. Full stop. Wanting to up his value to bolt is pure speculation and what you seem to hope happens. Nothing from any interview implies anything about boosting his value or leaving as soon as possible.

He waived his NMC, that's all anyone besides Skinner and his inner circle know. Its speculation to suggest anything other than what he said, he wants to come to Buffalo and is excited about playing with their core. Maybe he waived because he would have waived to go anywhere. Maybe he took being asked as a sign hes not wanted and felt like taking the high road and trying a different team. He said Buffalo was the only team he was asked about, and his agent handles preliminary talks, so Biffalo was likely on his list of teams hes willing to go to and he didnt need to be asked about anywhere else.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Was there any rumors of Skinner refusing to waive to anyone else with a pending deal in place?

There was a report he refused to go to Vancouver

 

[Voight]

Was there any rumors of Skinner refusing to waive to anyone else with a pending deal in place?

I heard they were close to a deal w/ LA at the draft (they would've traded for him and not signed Kovy) but either he didn't want to waive his caluse or the deal fell apart.

 

[Sypher04]

No, they’re not. People forgot that Tampa missed the playoff two years ago despite having roughly the same team. Also, is Toronto really a lock? They added Tavares but sacrified a 35G scorer, a top 2 C and a top 6 W in the process. Their D is no better than last year and their depth is questionable, at best.

Last year, they stacked 100+ points because Ottawa, Buffalo, Montreal all had mediocre year with Floride having a terrible first half of the season. The Antlantic will be MUCH more conpetitive this year and I wouldn’t be surprise to see one of Tampa Bay, Boston or Toronto miss the playoff

This post is straight up nonsense.

Yes, teams who get crushed by injuries usually have hard time making the playoffs or don't. I will agree with you in so far as to say there are no locks for this reason. There are clear favorites however, and Toronto/Boston/Tampa are the class of the Atlantic, I don't think anyone right now is disputing that. I could see Buffalo & Florida making good improvement this year which should strengthen the division somewhat.

Now, the rest...

1) Tavares almost replaces JVR & Bozak's combined production by himself (only like a ~12 point difference), that doesn't factor in at all the increased production we will get from 2 of Brown/Johnsson/Kapanen who move up the lineup into now vacant spaces.
2) Bozak and JVR were not playing good, responsible hockey and were HEAVILY sheltered within our lineup
3) Our defense actually should improve by addition through subtraction (Polak is gone), health (Zaitsev had a terrible year, but got healthy and looked great at worlds) and hopefully progress of youth (Dermott namely). Beyond this, hopefully Babcock learned his lesson with Hainsey last year and uses our players more appropriately.
4) Our depth is questionable? You probably should take another look at our depth chart. We might be lacking a top 4 D to stabilize things, but we've probably got 10-12 NHL capable defenseman. And our offensive depth is well documented.
5) The Leafs didn't even actually do all that well against the Atlantic, soooo

As much as I've said Florida & Buffalo seem like candidates to improve, move up this year, I don't think either will happen enough to dislodge one of the top 3 teams. I see BUF/FLA as wildcard contenders. But sure, injuries could really sidetrack that.