Confirmed Trade: [CAR/BUF] Jeff Skinner for 2019 2nd, 2020 3rd and 6th, and Cliff Pu Part II

[garnetpalmetto]

Last one went over 1,000, so please continue on here.

Click to read more...

 

[bleedgreen]

Canes fans: we had no choice. Nmc that makes it seem like it had two teams on it.

Buffalo fans: we stole him, and if he sucks we will sell him for twice as much because we aren’t paying attention to his Nmc and because we’re not the Canes.

Everyone else: regardless of situation that return sucks.

Canes fans: Yeah. We know.

End of thread.

 

[SI90]

Was there any rumors of Skinner refusing to waive to anyone else with a pending deal in place?

 

[Makar Goes Fast]

im curious to know where skin man said no to.

 

[Thorton02]

Canes fans: we had no choice. Nmc that makes it seem like it had two teams on it.

Buffalo fans: we stole him, and if he sucks we will sell him for twice as much because we aren’t paying attention to his Nmc and because we’re not the Canes.

Everyone else: regardless of situation that return sucks.

Canes fans: Yeah. We know.

End of thread.

You forgot pages of high quality Pu jokes.

 

[Jordan Belfort]

I think Skinner was overrated anyway. And I love Cliff Pus game. Could see him being a top 6 winger easily. In my opinion a very good trade for the Canes. Skinner is injury prone and could likely decline in the next couple years.

 

[John Eichel da GOAT]

Canes fans: we had no choice. Nmc that makes it seem like it had two teams on it.

Buffalo fans: we stole him, and if he sucks we will sell him for twice as much because we aren’t paying attention to his Nmc and because we’re not the Canes.

Everyone else: regardless of situation that return sucks.

Canes fans: Yeah. We know.

End of thread.

He had a NMC and Buffalo actually made the cut? Im shocked.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I think Skinner was overrated anyway. And I love Cliff Pus game. Could see him being a top 6 winger easily. In my opinion a very good trade for the Canes. Skinner is injury prone and could likely decline in the next couple years.

He's played 93% of all possible NHL games. He's played 77, 82, 79, 82 games the last 4 seasons. I get that he's had a concussion history which can't be overlooked, but the "injury prone" comment is pretty outdated and frankly, incorrect.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

He had a NMC and Buffalo actually made the cut? Im shocked.

I'm surprised too, but Toronto (who doesn't need him) and Buffalo are by far the two teams closest to home so it makes some sense.

 

[CupsOverCash]

Buffalo might not make the playoffs but they have a really good young team that will be really good soon. Get a little more D and better Goaltending and they look really tough.

 

[nickschultzfan]

I think Skinner was overrated anyway. And I love Cliff Pus game. Could see him being a top 6 winger easily. In my opinion a very good trade for the Canes. Skinner is injury prone and could likely decline in the next couple years.

Agreed. It's not like Carolina is going anywhere this season. They are developing their defense and will tank this season and will probably get a top-5 pick forward to add to their young group which now has Pu as well. It's not super impressive, but it's a solid direction.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Agreed. It's not like Carolina is going anywhere this season. They are developing their defense and will tank this season and will probably get a top-5 pick forward to add to their young group which now has Pu as well. It's not super impressive, but it's a solid direction.

Sure, because "tanking" teams trade a 21 year old (Hanifin) and 23 year old(Lindholm) for 25 year old (Hamilton) and a 26 year old (Ferland). And a tanking team signs a De Hann as a UFA.

Canes may not be good this season, but they certainly aren't "tanking".

 

[bleedgreen]

Sure, because "tanking" teams trade a 21 year old (Hanifin) and 23 year old(Lindholm) for 25 year old (Hamilton) and a 26 year old (Ferland). And a tanking team signs a De Hann as a UFA.

Canes may not be good this season, but they certainly aren't "tanking".

Nope, they’re not.

For better or for worse I suppose. They could be picking top ten, they could shock and squeak in the playoffs.

 

[NotOpie]

Agreed. It's not like Carolina is going anywhere this season. They are developing their defense and will tank this season and will probably get a top-5 pick forward to add to their young group which now has Pu as well. It's not super impressive, but it's a solid direction.

I'll make a prediction right here and now....Carolina will finish higher in the Eastern Conference than Buffalo....there, I said it.

 

[bleedgreen]

He had a NMC and Buffalo actually made the cut? Im shocked.

It appears it was a really small list and they were on it. Next closest to Toronto. The way it’s talked about so far it almost seems like it was a list of two. Ottawa or Detroit are location candidates but I doubt he put Ottawa on there currently.

 

[GoldiFox]

Sure, because "tanking" teams trade a 21 year old (Hanifin) and 23 year old(Lindholm) for 25 year old (Hamilton) and a 26 year old (Ferland). And a tanking team signs a De Hann as a UFA.

Canes may not be good this season, but they certainly aren't "tanking".

Canes brought in older players, but they are still sitting at the Salary Floor $18 million under the Cap. They couldn't spend less money if they wanted to. Their NHL goalie tandem is Scott Darling and Petr Mrazek. Their latest move was to trade their top goal scorer for a prospect + 2nd. If I am a fan of another team that smells like an organizational decision to let this season fail (barring a miracle).

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Canes brought in older players, but they are still sitting at the Salary Floor $18 million under the Cap. They couldn't spend less money if they wanted to. Their NHL goalie tandem is Scott Darling and Petr Mrazek. Their latest move was to trade their top goal scorer for a prospect + 2nd. If I am a fan of another team that smells like an organizational decision to let this season fail (barring a miracle).

But they aren't "tanking", period. Another team's fan should look into it more before making uninformed claims. Tanking is intentionally putting a bad team out there for the sake of losing, which with the way the lottery is now, doesn't even make much sense. That's not what they are doing here. There weren't any good goalie solutions out there (as they tried for Grubauer and Caps sent him out of division). Whether it was Ward/Darling or Ward/Mrazek or Darling/Mrazek, it's not that much different, but there weren't many options. They felt Hamilton and DeHaan were huge upgrades on defense over Hanifin and Dahlbeck, which is 100% correct in the short term (thus not tanking). Until they start winning more, they are always going to be a budget team in this market. They are looking to change the culture and with that may mean some speed bumps, but that's a far cry from tanking.

 

[nickdawg95]

im curious to know where skin man said no to.

In the Tim and Sid interview he said that buffalo was the first team they asked him to waive to

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

In the Tim and Sid interview he said that buffalo was the first team they asked him to waive to

Waddell also confirmed that Skinner never turned down any trades the Canes came to him with, but said Skinner/his agent did give him a very limited number of teams that he would waive for.

 

[GoldiFox]

But they aren't "tanking", period. Another team's fan should look into it more before making uninformed claims. Tanking is intentionally putting a bad team out there for the sake of losing, which with the way the lottery is now, doesn't even make much sense. That's not what they are doing here. There weren't any good goalie solutions out there (as they tried for Grubauer and Caps sent him out of division). Whether it was Ward/Darling or Ward/Mrazek or Darling/Mrazek, it's not that much different, but there weren't many options. They felt Hamilton and DeHaan were huge upgrades on defense over Hanifin and Dahlbeck, which is 100% correct in the short term (thus not tanking). Until they start winning more, they are always going to be a budget team in this market. They are looking to change the culture and with that may mean some speed bumps, but that's a far cry from tanking.

He said that the Canes were actively building up the defense for the long-term (your point) while "tanking this season". Nobody actively tries to lose so I agree with your definition of nobody tanking. But I think others use "tanking" to mean a team that is OK with losing in the short-term if they have a long-term plan. These teams often sit at the Cap Floor (as the Canes are) and bide their time while collecting talent and futures. They do things like trade away a 30 goal scorer with 1 year left on his deal for futures without replacing him in the name of culture change. Which could certainly pay off in the end but it is hard to argue to a neutral party that they will be better next year for it.

Canes can have done the best with the options they had and still end up a bottom-5 team next year. Given their goaltending downgrade, a rookie head coach, 3-4 rookie forwards needing to step up, and the loss of one of their top goal scorers they can be worse than last year despite making improvements in other areas.

 

[Jeremy2020]

I think Skinner was overrated anyway. And I love Cliff Pus game. Could see him being a top 6 winger easily. In my opinion a very good trade for the Canes. Skinner is injury prone and could likely decline in the next couple years.

Do players generally start to decline going into their prime years?

 

[DarkHorse2]

Boy, de Haan...you didn't pick wisely.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

He said that the Canes were actively building up the defense for the long-term (your point) while "tanking this season". Nobody actively tries to lose so I agree with your definition of nobody tanking. But I think others use "tanking" to mean a team that is OK with losing in the short-term if they have a long-term plan.

I was referring to Tanking in the more traditional sense (like Buffalo and Tor. did), but I still completely disagree that's what you wrote in the bold is what they are trying to do. IMO, they are making moves they think will help them win more games. In the end, they may be wrong, but they aren't making moves with the intent of being ok to lose. What long term plan makes sense burning years off of Slavin, Pesce, Aho, TT, Staal, Hamilton, etc.. for hopes that 2-3 years from now you'll be good? What long term plan moves Lindholm and Hanifin who are both very young for Hamilton (who is a UFA in 3 years) and Ferland (who is a UFA in a year) just for the chance of getting a top 10 pick next year. The team already has the 3rd-4th best prospect pool in the league. It doesn't make any sense which is why I don't think that's what they are aiming for.

These teams often sit at the Cap Floor (as the Canes are) and bide their time while collecting talent and futures. They do things like trade away a 30 goal scorer with 1 year left on his deal for futures without replacing him in the name of culture change. Which could certainly pay off in the end but it is hard to argue to a neutral party that they will be better next year for it.

It's more than in the name of culture change. It's 1) asset management (as they didn't want to lose him for nothing) and 2) his overall play last year was as detrimental to team success as the loss of his goal scoring would be beneficial and 3) culture change - it was clear Brindy didn't want the guy on the team. I really think the team, and particularly Brind'Amour, thinks the team is better off without him than with him. Now, they could be very, very wrong on that front, but I think that's how they feel.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

It's more than in the name of culture change. It's 1) asset management (as they didn't want to lose him for nothing) and 2) his overall play last year was as detrimental to team success as the loss of his goal scoring would be beneficial and 3) culture change

This is the key. Skinner wasn't good last year, his 24 goals were offset by his well discussed flaws.

If Foegele comes in and scores 40 points while getting standard 3rd line deployment and allows 15 less goals against, while playing a physical game, a non stop motor and penalty kill time...is that really a massive drop off (not to mention 3 mil in savings)?

 

[Kranix]

A guy scores 24 goals and it's his fault the team sucked.