Confirmed Trade: [CAR/BUF] Jeff Skinner for 2019 2nd, 2020 3rd and 6th, and Cliff Pu Part II

[Cane mutiny]

I don't think Skinner cares too much about a NMC now, since he can go wherever he chooses as a FA at the end of the year. He'd likely be ok with going to any team in the playoffs for a few months, having never been there. He's the master of his own universe now, starting the end of the season. He chose Buff cuz it was close to home. It wouldn't surprise me to see him in any of Buff, Tor, Det or Pits next year. Maybe even Columbus. He'll probably go for the most $$$ he can get from that general area, I bet.

 

[WeDislikeEich]

I know for a fact if a team trades for a player before they have 6 full seasons and the contract has a NMC ir NRC that would take affect in his 7th yr as a pro the acquiring team can void this.

If you acquiring him after it kicks in there has been debate if that nullifies it. It appears it still it’s in effect after the trade.

During expansion draft players were asked to waive them

According to that link, the acquiring team has to sign an addendum picking up the NTC. Otherwise the NTC can be nullified.

So it seems to all comes down to whether or not the new team signs the addendum to honor the NTC.

But the player could easily just refuse the trade if the new team says no. So most of the time they seem to carry over to the new team.
It’s not automatic though.

 

[NotOpie]

So it seems to all comes down to whether or not the new team signs the addendum to honor the NTC.

Nope. Skinner likely doesn't waive without the addendum getting signed. The player still retains all the control.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

Sabres beat writer for the Athletic says he’s 99% sure NMC is no longer in place.

 

[WeDislikeEich]

Nope. Skinner likely doesn't waive without the addendum getting signed. The player still retains all the control.

Nope what?

I never said he did. I was just explaining the CBA rules on NTC.

And I even said right under the sentence that you quoted that a player could just easily refuse a trade if the acquiring team doesn’t pick up his NTC.

I don’t even understand the point of your post.

 

[WeDislikeEich]

Delete

 

[NotOpie]

Nope what?

I never said he did. I was just explaining the CBA rules on NTC.

And I even said right under the sentence that you quoted that a player could just easily refuse a trade if the acquiring team doesn’t pick up his NTC.

I don’t even understand the point of your post.

Sorry that I misinterpreted you last part.

My point was there is no motivation whatsoever for a player not to demand that the NMC remains in place. Even though he only has a year remaining, he'd still almost certainly want to determine where he goes at TDL. If it is two competing deals between playoff teams, I'd pick the one I thought had the better chance.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

Sorry that I misinterpreted you last part.

My point was there is no motivation whatsoever for a player not to demand that the NMC remains in place. Even though he only has a year remaining, he'd still almost certainly want to determine where he goes at TDL. If it is two competing deals between playoff teams, I'd pick the one I thought had the better chance.

 

[bleedgreen]

So no one knows yet.

 

[NotOpie]

So how about if some of these crack Buffalo reporters actually ask the question of either management or the player.

 

[spockBokk]

So this guy is guessing just like the rest of us...got it.

 

[Zip15]

So how about if some of these crack Buffalo reporters actually ask the question of either management or the player.

Not likely. Fans were pressing the beat reporters for the exact conditions on the pick(s) acquired in the E.Kane/San Jose trade. One of them responded that it wasn't important and he would get around to it after the season - which he did, but it would've taken one question to have obtained the answer two months prior.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

Not likely. Fans were pressing the beat reporters for the exact conditions on the pick(s) acquired in the E.Kane/San Jose trade. One of them responded that it wasn't important and he would get around to it after the season - which he did, but it would've taken one question to have obtained the answer two months prior.

Vogl is pretty solid. He didn't just pull his 99% out of thin air.

 

[NotOpie]

Vogl is pretty solid. He didn't just pull his 99% out of thin air.

I'm sure he is solid....but if he actually knew, he'd say so. He's making an assumption. It doesn't really matter to me as Skinner is your guy now. I'd only like to know because, as many have said, there are few if any examples of an upcoming UFA, who was traded, and didn't maintain their NMC coverage. CapFriendly, for example, currently lists Skinner with an NMC.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

I'm sure he is solid....but if he actually knew, he'd say so. He's making an assumption. It doesn't really matter to me as Skinner is your guy now. I'd only like to know because, as many have said, there are few if any examples of an upcoming UFA, who was traded, and didn't maintain their NMC coverage. CapFriendly, for example, currently lists Skinner with an NMC.

He said he's 99% sure. I don't know about you but I'm not sure there are many things that are 100%. There's always some loophole. What exactly are the examples of upcoming free agents who were traded and kept their NMC? This never comes up because the acquiring team wants to keep the player for a playoff run. Very few bubble teams like Sabres make a deal like this. They did it because they can flip him again at the deadline. There were endless columns pointing that out. Some want to believe this because they think it was a bad deal for Carolina. It wasn't. The reality is players with a year on contract and going into UFA are worth less these days. Ask the Habs about Max P.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I don't know of a single instance of a player with a NTC/NMC in tact and it not remaining in tact after the trade. Doesn't matter if he's 1 year, 2 years, 3 years or even on IR with a career ending injury. Heck, Horton's clause survived the trade to Toronto even though he'd never play again. Maybe there's a slight chance Skinner's didn't survive, but I doubt it, regardless of a what a beat writer wrote.

Not that it matters though anyhow. The Sabres didn't trade for Skinner for 1 year of him, they did it in hopes of re-signing him. And if they are out of it at the deadline and feel they can't sign Skinner, he's more than likely going to waive any clause to get a chance to go to a playoff team. This isn't a vet, who has a cup win, has been to the playoffs countless times and who has a family that's entrenched in an area (like when Ray Whitney refused). This is a guy who has never been to the playoffs and would likely not hesitate to waive his clause if it meant he gets to play in the playoffs.

Whether his clause remains (which I will believe it does until something definitive says otherwise), really isn't very relevant.

 

[WeDislikeEich]

I don't know of a single instance of a player with a NTC/NMC in tact and it not remaining in tact after the trade. Doesn't matter if he's 1 year, 2 years, 3 years or even on IR with a career ending injury. Heck, Horton's clause survived the trade to Toronto even though he'd never play again. Maybe there's a slight chance Skinner's didn't survive, but I doubt it, regardless of a what a beat writer wrote.

Not that it matters though anyhow. The Sabres didn't trade for Skinner for 1 year of him, they did it in hopes of re-signing him. And if they are out of it at the deadline and feel they can't sign Skinner, he's more than likely going to waive any clause to get a chance to go to a playoff team. This isn't a vet, who has a cup win, has been to the playoffs countless times and who has a family that's entrenched in an area (like when Ray Whitney refused). This is a guy who has never been to the playoffs and would likely not hesitate to waive his clause if it meant he gets to play in the playoffs.

Whether his clause remains (which I will believe it does until something definitive says otherwise), really isn't very relevant.

Well said.

The bolded text should end all this damn discussion about his NMC.

I am quite sure that Jason Botterill is going to do what he can to get Skinner signed. He has been very cautious with his assets, and in general so far as Buffalo’s GM. I can’t imagine he gave up assets for Skinner with the intention to have him for 3/4ths of a season and flip him at the deadline.

My guess is that he did it with every intention of re-signing him. Especially with how badly Buffalo needs goal scoring (they’re desperate for someone who can score at even strength).

And if Skinner decides he doesn’t want to sign in Buffalo (after waiving his NMC to come here) I am guessing that Buffalo will be able to find at least 1 team to send him to at the deadline and most likely get back a 2nd + B prospect, minimum.
I don’t really see why Skinner would just completely refuse to waive if he didn’t want to be here anyway. Like you said, it’s not like he’s put down roots here. He did have roots in Carolina and still agreed to a trade.


Anyway... I am pretty sick of the NMC discussion. It’s a buzz kill. I don’t want to think about trading him. We just got the guy! lol

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

Sorry that I misinterpreted you last part.

My point was there is no motivation whatsoever for a player not to demand that the NMC remains in place. Even though he only has a year remaining, he'd still almost certainly want to determine where he goes at TDL. If it is two competing deals between playoff teams, I'd pick the one I thought had the better chance.

Well if a player wants to be traded and one of the teams he wants to go to wants to acquire him but won’t sign the nmc, then there’s motivation

 

[Daz28]

You'd think CAR would have immediately jumped all over the opportunity to defend the 'multi-national covered fleecing' they got, right. Umm, no wait, we were limited in our return, because Jeff insisted he retain his NMC. If it were real news it, you wouldn't have to look for it like an Easter egg. So anyone blasting Buffalo media should be blasting CAR media more so.

 

[Cuphead]

in a scenario where the sabres are out at the deadline, and are looking to trade skinner to a contender, what benefit would skinner have to not waive a potential nmc?

does refusing and playing golf increase his next contract? do teams line up for a player that stubborn?

i think he either has genuine interest in buffalo, or hes looking to parlay a year with eichel + a guaranteed playoff run into a big contract.

i could maybe see turning down a bubble team if there are multiple offers. but are those teams really looking to spend "big" for a rental? even if a bubble team is the only offer, its still a better bet.

or, he has an awful season and they try to trade him. in which case hes not going to turn down a chance to salvage his contract year.

 

[sheriff bart]

The Sabres didn't trade for Skinner for 1 year of him, they did it in hopes of re-signing him. And if they are out of it at the deadline and feel they can't sign Skinner, he's more than likely going to waive any clause to get a chance to go to a playoff team. This isn't a vet, who has a cup win, has been to the playoffs countless times and who has a family that's entrenched in an area (like when Ray Whitney refused). This is a guy who has never been to the playoffs and would likely not hesitate to waive his clause if it meant he gets to play in the playoffs.

I think you're dead on here. Sabres get to see him a bit and have the option of working out an extension if he gels with the team. If they can't work it out, he moves on to a playoff team at the deadline.

 

[Djp]

in a scenario where the sabres are out at the deadline, and are looking to trade skinner to a contender, what benefit would skinner have to not waive a potential nmc?

does refusing and playing golf increase his next contract? do teams line up for a player that stubborn?

i think he either has genuine interest in buffalo, or hes looking to parlay a year with eichel + a guaranteed playoff run into a big contract.

i could maybe see turning down a bubble team if there are multiple offers. but are those teams really looking to spend "big" for a rental? even if a bubble team is the only offer, its still a better bet.

or, he has an awful season and they try to trade him. in which case hes not going to turn down a chance to salvage his contract year.

I don't see him blocking such a move.

He is a UFA after the year and this is his likely final contract in his career.

He would want to show teams he can play playoff hockey. He hasn't touched much playoff hockey in Carolina. He goes to a playoff team and puts up very good numbers that increases his calue on the open market.

 

[MillerTime]

I don't know of a single instance of a player with a NTC/NMC in tact and it not remaining in tact after the trade. Doesn't matter if he's 1 year, 2 years, 3 years or even on IR with a career ending injury. Heck, Horton's clause survived the trade to Toronto even though he'd never play again. Maybe there's a slight chance Skinner's didn't survive, but I doubt it, regardless of a what a beat writer wrote.

I am quite sure Bogosian had a NMC when traded from the Jets to the Sabres and the Sabres did not keep the NMC clause in the contract after he was traded.

From Capfriendly: CLAUSE DETAILS: Original contract signed included a NMC from 2015-16 to 2019-20 - Trade Clause was VOIDED when player was traded to Sabres on Feb 11, 2015

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I am quite sure Bogosian had a NMC when traded from the Jets to the Sabres and the Sabres did not keep the NMC clause in the contract after he was traded.

From Capfriendly: CLAUSE DETAILS: Original contract signed included a NMC from 2015-16 to 2019-20 - Trade Clause was VOIDED when player was traded to Sabres on Feb 11, 2015

That's a different scenario and not what I was talking about. Bogosian was traded to Buffalo for the 14/15 season BEFORE his NMC took effect in the 15/16 season. So while he had one in his contract, it had not yet come into play before the trade. The CBA is very clear that it's the teams choice to honor it or not when a trade occurs before the NMC is in effect. I am aware of cases where that scenario has happened, Bogosian being one of them.

What I'm talking about is when a players NTC/NMC is already in tact at the time of the trade. I don't know of any cases where a player has a NTC/NMC already in effect at the time of the trade and it doesn't remain after the trade.

Anyhow, as I said earlier with the rest of my post, I don't think it matters either way.

 

[WreckingCrew]

I don't see him blocking such a move.

He is a UFA after the year and this is his likely final contract in his career.

He would want to show teams he can play playoff hockey. He hasn't touched much playoff hockey in Carolina. He goes to a playoff team and puts up very good numbers that increases his calue on the open market.

Ummm, what?? He's 26...even an 8 year contract (I'm guessing unlikely) takes him to 34-35....