Confirmed Trade: [CAR/BUF] Jeff Skinner for 2019 2nd, 2020 3rd and 6th, and Cliff Pu Part II

VeeMerk

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I feel bad for Carolina because they really got stuck in a horrible situation. Jeff probably made it very clear that he wants to hit the market in free agency next July so he held all the cards. That in addition to his NMC probably gave Carolina a huge headache. Most teams wouldn't bid on a player that has no intention of resigning and I guess Buffalo had the best of the worse offers. Also, smart on Jeff waiving his NMC to go there. 1 year won't hurt and they do have a great young team.

Buffalo - good trade so please make something out of this. Good luck this season
 

GoldiFox

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I feel bad for Carolina because they really got stuck in a horrible situation. Jeff probably made it very clear that he wants to hit the market in free agency next July so he held all the cards. That in addition to his NMC probably gave Carolina a huge headache. Most teams wouldn't bid on a player that has no intention of resigning and I guess Buffalo had the best of the worse offers. Also, smart on Jeff waiving his NMC to go there. 1 year won't hurt and they do have a great young team.

Buffalo - good trade so please make something out of this. Good luck this season

The Canes are desperate to make the Playoffs and avoid a decade-straight postseason drought. New Head Coach Rod Brind’Amour has coached Skinner for the past 7 years. For me this trade says the Brind’Amour didn’t want Skinner on his team in the name of “culture change”.

By all reports Skinner had a tiny list of acceptable teams. Judging by Buffalo being on that list, it likely coincides with his home (GTA) rather than any competitive element so the list could have actually been 1) Toronto and 2) Buffalo.

At that point the Canes have a Head Coach that doesn’t want a player back and a player who will accept a trade to very few teams. Recipe for a low-end return. Although that aspect is overblown in this case as Buffalo’s 2nd (32-40) isn’t that much different that Toronto’s 1st (25-31) and Cliff Pu is a pretty good prospect as a 6’2” hard working Center with speed - could be a middle-6 C with size some day.
 
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sheriff bart

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He’s one hit away!
You rang?

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tarheelhockey

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The Canes are desperate to make the Playoffs and avoid a decade-straight postseason drought. New Head Coach Rod Brind’Amour has coached Skinner for the past 7 years. For me this trade says the Brind’Amour didn’t want Skinner on his team in the name of “culture change”.

I hope that isn’t what really happened. It’s the exact same mindset that has guys like Thornton, Kessel, Seguin, Hamilton being traded out of a single organization in the name of “culture change”. That stuff almost inevitably comes around to bite the organization in the ass.

IMO it’s much more likely that Skinner simply wasn’t playing ball on a below-market-value extension and the braintrust decided to go the asset management route rather than take a risk on losing him for nothing.
 
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Big Daddy Cane

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I hope that isn’t what really happened. It’s the exact same mindset that has guys like Thornton, Kessel, Seguin, Hamilton being traded out of a single organization in the name of “culture change”. That stuff almost inevitable comes around to bite the organization in the ass.

IMO it’s much more likely that Skinner simply wasn’t playing ball on a below-market-value extension and the braintrust decided to go the asset management route rather than take a risk on losing him for nothing.

I wouldn't call this the asset management route. The organization likely gets more value from Skinner as an asset by keeping him for ~60 games, letting him build up his value in a contract year and then flipping him for an equal or better return at the deadline, if the Canes were in a position to sell.

If you don't buy the cultural motivation behind this move, then I think it's something more insidious: the internal budget. Dundon was looking at a near ~$8.5 mil increase in the opening night payroll relative to last year in the absence of a move. If his primary concern is profitability and he's skittish on potential of playoff revenue, a payroll in the upper 60s is not viable.
 

GoldiFox

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I hope that isn’t what really happened. It’s the exact same mindset that has guys like Thornton, Kessel, Seguin, Hamilton being traded out of a single organization in the name of “culture change”. That stuff almost inevitable comes around to bite the organization in the ass.

IMO it’s much more likely that Skinner simply wasn’t playing ball on a below-market-value extension and the braintrust decided to go the asset management route rather than take a risk on losing him for nothing.

Kessel, Seguin, Hamilton, etc. were traded on their ELCs. Skinner was 1 year to walking as a UFA, as you state.

I’d have liked for Brind’Amour to come out early, show some confidence, and say “I can push Skinner to score 35+ again next year and help our team get into the Playoffs”. But that never seemed like an option. Instead the line from the start was “both parties are interested in making changes”. Given the trade return and HCRB/Skinner’s 7 year history it’s hard for me to read that as any way but “Skinner doesn’t want to play for Rod and/or Rod doesn’t want Skinner on his team.”

Could just be my own narrative to keep my sanity. If Brind’Amour thought he could get 2016-17 35+ goal Skinner next year but the Canes still traded him for a 2nd round pick because “We can’t lose him for nothing” then I would find that personally offensive as a paying fan. Statistically that would be a terrible gamble (odds of that pick being an impact player) and monetarily the Canes winning next year is way more valuable to the organization than a 2nd round pick and a prospect.

I can’t accept that the Canes thought “Yeah we will be worse next year but think of what this 2nd round pick will become!”. Not staring down a 10 year postseason drought in a league where 50%+ of the teams make the Playoffs.
 

Boom Boom Apathy

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I think it's a combination of 1) Brindy didn't really want him on the team (not just culture, but he didn't play the game like Brindy wanted), 2) they didn't want to sign him to a $7M+, $50M contract which is his likely market value at this point, and 3) He was 1 year from UFA so they wanted to get something for him while they could.
 

sheriff bart

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I don't fault Skinner for wanting to see what he can get in free agency.

I don't fault the Canes for not wanting to overpay to lock him in and buy his free agency.

Crappy situation. In a perfect world, Skinner would have allowed the team to move him for the best possible deal, but we don't live in a perfect world.
 

CatsforReinhart

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I feel bad for Carolina because they really got stuck in a horrible situation. Jeff probably made it very clear that he wants to hit the market in free agency next July so he held all the cards. That in addition to his NMC probably gave Carolina a huge headache. Most teams wouldn't bid on a player that has no intention of resigning and I guess Buffalo had the best of the worse offers. Also, smart on Jeff waiving his NMC to go there. 1 year won't hurt and they do have a great young team.

Buffalo - good trade so please make something out of this. Good luck this season
Your post is pure speculation and he wanted to go to buffalo. You don't know if he will resign. He is close to home and wants to be there
 

CatsforReinhart

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I don't fault Skinner for wanting to see what he can get in free agency.

I don't fault the Canes for not wanting to overpay to lock him in and buy his free agency.

Crappy situation. In a perfect world, Skinner would have allowed the team to move him for the best possible deal, but we don't live in a perfect world.
Where are you people getting he wants to go to UFA? He waived to go to buffalo and it is close to home. He could easily resign
 

bleedgreen

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I think they didn’t want to pay him, and after years of losing he was going to leave for a big paycheck from a better team anyway.

They were pro active on putting a name on it and called it “culture change”. He’s just happy to be gone and doesn’t need to say a word.

Because we put that name on it and made him the poster boy for the culture change we kinda threw him out the door, and likely had to take a lesser trade because we didn’t want him back after what we’ve said and Buffalo knew they had us where they want us.

Three first rounders and we couldn’t touch one of them. We clearly took a crap deal to follow through on “culture change”.
 

Boom Boom Apathy

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Where are you people getting he wants to go to UFA? He waived to go to buffalo and it is close to home. He could easily resign

I think he speaking about when Skinner was in Carolina and looking at it from a Canes POV, although it's still speculative.

That's how I read it: Canes didn't want to offer him a huge deal, and he would want to try out free agency, so they traded him instead.
 
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LakeLivin

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I hope that isn’t what really happened. It’s the exact same mindset that has guys like Thornton, Kessel, Seguin, Hamilton being traded out of a single organization in the name of “culture change”. That stuff almost inevitably comes around to bite the organization in the ass.

IMO it’s much more likely that Skinner simply wasn’t playing ball on a below-market-value extension and the braintrust decided to go the asset management route rather than take a risk on losing him for nothing.

Pretty sure I heard that the Canes never initiated extension talks with Skinner's team before they traded him.
 

Djp

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Ummm, what?? He's 26...even an 8 year contract (I'm guessing unlikely) takes him to 34-35....

most players look at contract 3 as being their final contract if the sign an ELC , then do some 5-7 year contract for #2 then look to get a high 7 yr contract for #3 which would take them to 33-35

most players don't think they will be playing after 33..
 

Djp

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The other issue at play here ----

Im looking at Carolinas cap situation next summer

they need 10 F signes, 1 Damn, and 1 goalie with about $34M + cap increase to play with

Aho should be a high signing say $7M for the sake of argument, $1M for a 2nd goalie, and a $2M bridg for Fluery

that gives them some room to play with
 

tarheelhockey

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I wouldn't call this the asset management route. The organization likely gets more value from Skinner as an asset by keeping him for ~60 games, letting him build up his value in a contract year and then flipping him for an equal or better return at the deadline, if the Canes were in a position to sell.

If you don't buy the cultural motivation behind this move, then I think it's something more insidious: the internal budget. Dundon was looking at a near ~$8.5 mil increase in the opening night payroll relative to last year in the absence of a move. If his primary concern is profitability and he's skittish on potential of playoff revenue, a payroll in the upper 60s is not viable.

Kessel, Seguin, Hamilton, etc. were traded on their ELCs. Skinner was 1 year to walking as a UFA, as you state.

I’d have liked for Brind’Amour to come out early, show some confidence, and say “I can push Skinner to score 35+ again next year and help our team get into the Playoffs”. But that never seemed like an option. Instead the line from the start was “both parties are interested in making changes”. Given the trade return and HCRB/Skinner’s 7 year history it’s hard for me to read that as any way but “Skinner doesn’t want to play for Rod and/or Rod doesn’t want Skinner on his team.”

Could just be my own narrative to keep my sanity. If Brind’Amour thought he could get 2016-17 35+ goal Skinner next year but the Canes still traded him for a 2nd round pick because “We can’t lose him for nothing” then I would find that personally offensive as a paying fan. Statistically that would be a terrible gamble (odds of that pick being an impact player) and monetarily the Canes winning next year is way more valuable to the organization than a 2nd round pick and a prospect.

I can’t accept that the Canes thought “Yeah we will be worse next year but think of what this 2nd round pick will become!”. Not staring down a 10 year postseason drought in a league where 50%+ of the teams make the Playoffs.

You guys are both hitting on factors that I think do play into the situation at some level. What we can’t know, is what are the proportions of each. Is it motivated mostly by finances, with asset management being viewed as the solution, and nobody using their veto because of the culture concern? Or is it a culture move that’s lubricated by a financial concern, and this is viewed as the best way to move on in terms of asset value? To be perfectly honest, Dundon may be the only guy who knows the complete answer.
 

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