Buffalo Sabres GM Candidates ?

[debaser66]

Except Regier would have money this time and Sobotka wouldn't play on Ruffs team lol

You seem to forget that Regier operated under the Pegulas for a few years and he actually signed one of the worst Sabres of all time in Ville Leino.

 

[jc17]

You seem to forget that Regier operated under the Pegulas for a few years and he actually signed one of the worst Sabres of all time in Ville Leino.

Which was a result of flashing deep pockets as if free agency would solve all problems, which unfortunately happened in a year with awful free agents

 

[debaser66]

I think he's done two stupid things: Trade RoR and retain Housley. And i'm not convinced he had a free hand in the former, and may not have in the latter.

Bad Moves
-RoR
+Housley
-Hagel
-Beaulieu

Good Moves
+Montour
+Skinner
+Sheary
+Scandella
+Pilut

Being decent for one season and one of the worst top4 in the league makes Scandella a bad trade plus Pominville cap dump even worse.
I don't care for Sheary he is average at best .. plus the cap dump in Hunwick for another season which makes it at best a wash.
I do like Montour but given how bad the forwards are they should have kept Beaulieu and traded for a center with term instead.
They definately need to add one because Mittelstadt needs at least another season.

 

[debaser66]

Which was a result of flashing deep pockets as if free agency would solve all problems, which unfortunately happened in a year with awful free agents

If you don't see that you are awful too hence no thank you and never Regier again.

 

[Crazy Tasty]

Being decent for one season and one of the worst top4 in the league makes Scandella a bad trade plus Pominville cap dump even worse.
I don't care for Sheary he is average at best .. plus the cap dump in Hunwick for another season which makes it at best a wash.
I do like Montour but given how bad the forwards are they should have kept Beaulieu and traded for a center with term instead.
They definately need to add one because Mittelstadt needs at least another season.

Who thought Scandella was going to drop off the cliff that hard though? At the time of the trade, he wasn't complete garbage like he is now.

 

[Royisgone]

Who thought Scandella was going to drop off the cliff that hard though? At the time of the trade, he wasn't complete garbage like he is now.

Buffalo has a way of sucking that last bit of life out of players and stripping them down to the rusted out core.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

I also believe Botts did not have a free hand in trading ROR, but that didn't preclude him from getting a better return, regardless of whether the trade was with the Blues or another team.

Lastly, you're talking above about actions. Philosophically, what is more critical: sins of commission or sins of omission?

Trading ROR should have triggered a better back-up plan for #2C than a 20yo rookie and two cap dumps.

An apt point. I'm not sure much was really on offer for 2C. Part of my mental block is the impossibility of proving a negative. But I can't even get too far trying to prove a plausible. Sure Duchene was traded, but that would have been very short sighted, would people have been on board with giving up what was required for that? It doesn't appear there were many other options; teams don't generally trade those players while they're still in the playoff hunt.

 

[MagnumForce2]

I am now in the camp where I want Botterill gone as much as Housley.

 

[Chainshot]

Botts inaction has cratered the team so much I fear that we will simply have to watch them ship out the current relevant talent and hope that the next rebuild works. And yes, I'm talking about Eichel and Reinhart.

 

[SundherDome]

Housley needs to go and Botts should stay. I am a Botts detractor but we can't be shifting rebuilds every two years. Botts trading guys away is terrible, Botts bringing guys in is much better. His inactivity bothers the hell out of me but it is owed to him to let him see his plan through. That is, unless Stevie Y wants the job.

 

[littletonhockeycoach]

I understand the sentiment, but the reasoning is not rational. First you say that ownership is basically doing all the right things (paragraph 1), but that the team continues to fail despite that, the reasons for which are not clear. Then you say that the ownership is the problem (paragraph 2), with no evidence presented other than that the ownership has been constant. The Pegulas can't possibly be doing everything right and be the problem at the same time.

1st paragraph describes thrashing. Try this, try that, didn't work, try something else. It's been applied to executive hires, management, coaching and players. That's not intended to be complimentary.

The Pegula's have deep pockets and have supported the WNY area with their money. That's what I am giving them credit for. They know NOTHING about running sports organizations and are practicing flavor of the month management.
.

 

[littletonhockeycoach]

I think this is a fair point. Terry or Kim hear that ROR said he lost his love of the game (at moments) and i think that's the sort of thing that would piss them off. Why pay a guy some huge bonus if he doesn't seem to want to be here. Ship him out.

I am not done with GMBH. I like most of his moves and picks. I love what he has done in Rochester. He definitely has his warts, but i think he has the right plan to construct a contender. I think it would behoove him to share the timeline he has in mind. It's possible that he thinks this will take 2-3 seasons, while fans want it now. His biggest strike against, and it's huge, is his handling of Housley. Dude needs to go and Botts isn't making a move. Then again....Housley does reek of a Pegula (and i am still a proponent of the Pegula's. I think they have done a lot of wonderful things. They just suck at managing a hockey team and need to get their **** straight).

" I think they have done a lot of wonderful things. They just suck at managing a hockey team and need to get their **** straight)."

Exactly!

 

[Gabrielor]

Botts inaction has cratered the team so much I fear that we will simply have to watch them ship out the current relevant talent and hope that the next rebuild works. And yes, I'm talking about Eichel and Reinhart.

I could see Reinhart stupidly getting traded in a fashion similar to Oreilly. I’ll be just as mad that day too.

I can’t see a world where anyone is allowed to trade Eichel, unless Jack pulls an Antonio Brown. It’s a devalued buzz word now, but we legitimately tanked for him. He’s probably the best reason for any fan to buy a ticket.

 

[Reddawg]

Botts inaction has cratered the team so much I fear that we will simply have to watch them ship out the current relevant talent and hope that the next rebuild works. And yes, I'm talking about Eichel and Reinhart.

I understand what Botts is doing...he has a plan for putting together a contender and he isn’t deviating from it for potential short-term gain at the expense of the long-term. I respect that. Phil has to go though...his lineup and usage decisions are atrocious and it’s clear that he’s lost this team. Let him finish out the year and then buh-bye. It’s a shame we couldn’t get in on Barry Trotz when we had the chance.

 

[flashsabre]

The Hunter brothers. Mark as GM, Dale as coach. They have found and developed more players in London than most franchises.

Mark stood firm when Babcock demanded they take Hanifin and took Marner. He knows talent. London always draft near the bottom yet consistently draft players more talented then teams drafting much higher. And Dale knows how to develop them into solid pro players.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

I think your list is roughly accurate in a vacuum.

But there are also value judgments and big picture issues.

O’Reilly and Housley as choices, trump pretty much everything because they are franchise defining choices for at least 2-3 years minimum. And they were not just bad, but utterly ridiculous in the case of O’Reilly, ownership involvement or not, and Housley was a risky move to make.

The positives are legit, but most came with a poison pill. Sheary costs you cap and a roster spot to a non-entity, Hunwick is replacement level now and has no future here. Scandella was a nice add, despite his play this year, but he came with a 10 million dollar poison pill. And he cost Foligno, which is fine gotta give to get, but his presence was not replaced for two years
now.

No complaints about Pilut, just like with Antipin, the biggest issue for those moves looking even better is that his coach absolutely prevented their value from coming through. Same with Beaulieu, I’m not gonna put that in the negative category, I like the original thought, horrible last year and then he redeemed himself this year, but again Housley refused to let that shine thru.

Skinner today is just a short term Kane replacement, nothing that grew the team, just status quo. If he locks him in to a good deal I’ll give him lots of credit. If he leaves in free agency....

Don’t get me wrong, every move Botts made is not omg hf bad, it’s just that enough have been and I still don’t see an articulate plan. Just saying building the farm is not enough.

When are they competitive? What kind of forward group are we building? Not tough. Not fast. What kind of defense are we building? Dahlin, Pilut and Pray?

Does the gm think his coach is doing a good job and is just unlucky?

Say what you will about Murray, but he had a defined plan. I have young cheap talent, I’m going to load up as quick as I can to make that young talent competitive as quick as possible. Injuries to key players and certain guys falling way off made that plan fail, I’m looking at you Girgs, wtf, and Ennis’ poor brain.

But at least it was a plan. Waiting for 2 going on 3 years of Eichel’s prime to accumulate high picks and hope those picks workout is not a plan.

This is how the false dichotomy creeps in. Murray was given an unprecedented amount of draft picks. He threw a party with them carrying out 'his plan'. He didn't leave anyone to come after him much to work without outside of the talent on the roster. Kane was walking in FA. Skinner as a GM action is not status quo that's completely underselling the move.

From what I can tell Botts plan was fixing the defense which dragged the team down the previous 4 years; by making it more mobile to fit the 5 man units most teams are currently using. Murray's was get RoR to shelter Jack and use Kane as a power forward. Both GMs picked a string of horrifically bad coaches and then stuck by them too long.

 

[Buffalo Norsemen]

If Botterill fires Housley, even if giving Taylor a shot, and promises to try every avenue to improve the roster I'm for giving him another year or perhaps even two as long as we see improvements next season. If he will not then it's time to give someone else a shot.

 

[Aladyyn]

Botts inaction has cratered the team so much I fear that we will simply have to watch them ship out the current relevant talent and hope that the next rebuild works. And yes, I'm talking about Eichel and Reinhart.

At that point I might be happy I don't have any actual ties to Buffalo or this team.

 

[Chainshot]

If Botterill fires Housley, even if giving Taylor a shot, and promises to try every avenue to improve the roster I'm for giving him another year or perhaps even two as long as we see improvements next season. If he will not then it's time to give someone else a shot.

If they sack Phil, it seems giving Payne the interim gig and leaving the Amerks alone makes some sense. Granted, the level of consistently doing the wrong thing has me wonder if he'd elevate Taylor.

 

[1point21Gigawatts]

You seem to forget that Regier operated under the Pegulas for a few years and he actually signed one of the worst Sabres of all time in Ville Leino.

Any GM who signs a player on the opening day of Free Agency usually ends up regretting it. I mean, Leino was on the extreme end of that spectrum, but still.... I always thought the Leino and Ehrhoff signing was more of a statement that "Money is no longer an issue in Buffalo," than anything else. Ill advised all the way, but a statement nonetheless.

I am getting off topic. As far as i can tell, Botts has yet to make such a terrible contract. I think the worst we can point at is Scandella and Pominville, but one was a cap dump and one was a good defensemen until this year.

 

[Hasekperreault23]

The Hunter brothers. Mark as GM, Dale as coach. They have found and developed more players in London than most franchises.

Mark stood firm when Babcock demanded they take Hanifin and took Marner. He knows talent. London always draft near the bottom yet consistently draft players more talented then teams drafting much higher. And Dale knows how to develop them into solid pro players.

Yes give me the Hunters.They will find players to protect our stars, be tough to play against , draft well and bring credibility to our organizationl

 

[Buffaloed]

Yes give me the Hunters.They will find players to protect our stars, be tough to play against , draft well and bring credibility to our organizationl

No Hunters for the Sabres. They get the Gatherers.

 

[brian_griffin]

No Hunters for the Sabres. They get the Gatherers.

Check my avatar...

Reminds me of the expression "not all who wander are lost" - and how it unfortunately doesn't apply to the Sabres.

 

[UnleashRasmus]

To me, Botterill hasn't been the problem. He's put together a functional roster, and has managed the best he could outside of perhaps one trade, and a coaching hire. He's done just as many positives as he has negatives. If you're firing him because of Housley and Ryan O'Reilly, call me cynical.

 

[sabrebuild]

This is how the false dichotomy creeps in. Murray was given an unprecedented amount of draft picks. He threw a party with them carrying out 'his plan'. He didn't leave anyone to come after him much to work without outside of the talent on the roster. Kane was walking in FA. Skinner as a GM action is not status quo that's completely underselling the move.

From what I can tell Botts plan was fixing the defense which dragged the team down the previous 4 years; by making it more mobile to fit the 5 man units most teams are currently using. Murray's was get RoR to shelter Jack and use Kane as a power forward. Both GMs picked a string of horrifically bad coaches and then stuck by them too long.

What’s the false dichotomy?

Yep, Murray successfully executed the tank. He got good returns on the guys he dumped and had nothing of value on the roster other Girgs and Myers. He used his super draft supplies to bring in Eichel and Reinhart, Kane, Bogo, McGinn, Lehner and O’Reilly.

I know, some of that missed some hit. But it’s not like Murray tore it down and didn’t build solid pieces.

But again the point is not that Murray was perfect, he was far from it.

The point was he had a real plan. Saying Botts plan was to fix the defense, is not a plan. It’s just something that should be always tinkered with, and was something Murray was doing too. Getting Dahlin is the only thing that has legitimately improved this defense, and that was clearly not the plan.

When I say status quo regarding Skinner, I’m not saying it was not a good move, in general, I’m saying it didn’t improve the team compared to Murray because it was just replacing Kane’s production, nothing more.

I don’t see how Murray left Botts nothingbto work with. He gave him 3 all stars and a budding all star at forward. He gave him Risto. And he didn’t waste any of his future draft picks. And one of Murray’s prospects was a main piece in the Montour trade. As are the most promising pieces in Rochester, that has everyone so excited about the farm team development. I mean c’mon, Asplund, Olofsson, and Guhle are/were huge pieces of that team.

Substantively, in two years, the only consistent good player that Botts has brought to the nhl team over and beyond what Murray left him, is Dahlin because of luck that Murray never got.

Again, what you have seen so far is not indicative of a plan.