Buffalo Sabres GM Candidates ?

[Jim Bob]

I know people around here don't like Risto, but that would be another terrible return for Botterill.

It would be better than what he got back for O'Reilly given that O'Reilly was way more productive as a Sabre.

 

[MayDay]

Briere and Drury were awesome acquisitions (and he had others) no argument here. He built a contender after the lockout and then sat on his hands. He added nothing of any worth to those teams. 05-06 with a blueline addition at the deadline likely wins a cup. Like I said Darcy was good at robbing other teams in deals, he wasn't good at paying market value for pieces that could help his team "win now".

Yes, but how much of that was Regier and how much was Golisano's spending restrictions?

We all know that Regier's strength was finding great value in trades and his weakness was spending money to retain or add talent. But I suspect much of that weakness was because he was hamstrung by ownership.

I have to wonder how differently Regier would manage if he had Pegula bucks to work with. Yes, I know his tenure extended into Pegula's ownership - I mean I wonder how it would have turned out if Regier had been allowed to stay and see the rebuild through. He was only allowed to start the tear-down - I'd like to see how he would have done building it back up.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

I have no idea what your talking about.

I don’t want to get a new gm because I think they can do magic, I want a new gm because the current one is doing a lot of stupid stuff.

If my options are stay with the gm who has sucked for two years or fire him and try again, then I’m moving on. I’m telling you about the issues that are in store for next year to show this doesn’t look like it’s gonna her way better unless Dahlin goes ham. And that’s not a reason to keep Botts.

Him wanting to keep Housley, is not a firing situation, it’s a mental health outcry.

I think he's done two stupid things: Trade RoR and retain Housley. And i'm not convinced he had a free hand in the former, and may not have in the latter.

Bad Moves
-RoR
+Housley
-Hagel
-Beaulieu

Good Moves
+Montour
+Skinner
+Sheary
+Scandella
+Pilut

 

[OkimLom]

I'm giving JB until day 1 of next year. If he doesn't do something about the dead weight on this roster over the summer and expects this same team (less Pominville) to be better via growth, I'll gladly be on the fire them both train.

Housley has certainly made some idiot lineup decisions, but he still has to work with the pile of **** that is on this roster which is JB & TM's fault.

What's going to really be a telling sign is what he does with the roster spots and cap space coming off the books.

My problem with Housley is that he's done nothing to tweak any aspect of the system or his player usage to utilize the players at what limited strengths they have.

 

[Tatanka]

buffalo generates a smaller % of scoring chances and high danger chances than shot attempts. they arent getting as much out of their possession. And i believe a huge reason for that is the way they're coached.

if they get offensive possession they're coached to punt back to the left point, and use the LHD has an option man. Either swing it to the RHD for a shot, or shoot themselves. It's a terrible system, and indicative of the way the team is generally structured to keep the defense and forwards separated.

No argument. But when the Erods and Vlads and Thompsons and Girgs are point blank in the slot they do not finish. We often get point shots blocked. These things and others are independent of the system and are on the shoulders of the players who simply are not good enough. JMHO.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

No argument. But when the Erods and Vlads and Thompsons and Girgs are point blank in the slot they do not finish. We often get point shots blocked. These things and others are independent of the system and are on the shoulders of the players who simply are not good enough. JMHO.

Well, that may be true, but buffalo actually converts on a higher perecentage of SC & HDSC than their opponents do. They just don't generate as many.

 

[dortt]

Briere and Drury were awesome acquisitions (and he had others) no argument here. He built a contender after the lockout and then sat on his hands. He added nothing of any worth to those teams. 05-06 with a blueline addition at the deadline likely wins a cup. Like I said Darcy was good at robbing other teams in deals, he wasn't good at paying market value for pieces that could help his team "win now". Is he a better GM than Botterill or Murray? Probably, but I'd also say there's a reason he's in no ones front office anymore.

In fairness, nobody sane would have ever believed that we would have been on our 10th defenseman

I put the big mistake on Darcy though that offseason. Hasek was available and still playing at a high level. He should have signed him and we win the Cup in 2007. Hasek would not have blown the leads and let in the bad goals in the Ottawa series that Miller did

 

[brian_griffin]

I think he's done two stupid things: Trade RoR and retain Housley. And i'm not convinced he had a free hand in the former, and may not have in the latter.

Bad Moves
-RoR
+Housley
-Hagel
-Beaulieu

Good Moves
+Montour
+Skinner
+Sheary
+Scandella
+Pilut

I also believe Botts did not have a free hand in trading ROR, but that didn't preclude him from getting a better return, regardless of whether the trade was with the Blues or another team.

Lastly, you're talking above about actions. Philosophically, what is more critical: sins of commission or sins of omission?

Trading ROR should have triggered a better back-up plan for #2C than a 20yo rookie and two cap dumps.

 

[GellMann]

Would it be fair to say that both Botterill and Housley lack compete? That they're not driven to be the best. The contrast with Beane and McDermott is night and day.

I love this point. Elite organizations at every level do everything they can day in and day out to win the next game. We are at a point where it does no harm to be that way, and we will not be good until we are that way. Sitting on our hands for most of the season, allowing the players we saw to get the minutes they did, is anything but that.

 

[jc17]

We still dont know how much the O'Reilly trade was pressured from above. That is a pretty important piece that we'll likely never know

 

[GellMann]

He should have addressed the center position with something during the slide after the streak or when Berglund quit. A filler center to take the pressure off of Casey and Sobotka was needed and he failed to deliver.

Agreed. And if the argument is that no realistic trades were available, then he should have filled the center position July 2nd. We could all see it for what it was then.

 

[MrMaster]

We still dont know how much the O'Reilly trade was pressured from above. That is a pretty important piece that we'll likely never know

That they were trying to save those what, 8 million in bonuses, was and is still odd as f***.

 

[1point21Gigawatts]

We still dont know how much the O'Reilly trade was pressured from above. That is a pretty important piece that we'll likely never know

I think this is a fair point. Terry or Kim hear that ROR said he lost his love of the game (at moments) and i think that's the sort of thing that would piss them off. Why pay a guy some huge bonus if he doesn't seem to want to be here. Ship him out.

I am not done with GMBH. I like most of his moves and picks. I love what he has done in Rochester. He definitely has his warts, but i think he has the right plan to construct a contender. I think it would behoove him to share the timeline he has in mind. It's possible that he thinks this will take 2-3 seasons, while fans want it now. His biggest strike against, and it's huge, is his handling of Housley. Dude needs to go and Botts isn't making a move. Then again....Housley does reek of a Pegula (and i am still a proponent of the Pegula's. I think they have done a lot of wonderful things. They just suck at managing a hockey team and need to get their shit straight).

 

[GellMann]

We still dont know how much the O'Reilly trade was pressured from above. That is a pretty important piece that we'll likely never know

It's so different from his other trades, and goes against his persistent comments about center ice and how important ROR was to the team, that I'm inclined to believe there was notable pressure.

 

[is the answer jesus]

Yes, but how much of that was Regier and how much was Golisano's spending restrictions?

We all know that Regier's strength was finding great value in trades and his weakness was spending money to retain or add talent. But I suspect much of that weakness was because he was hamstrung by ownership.

I have to wonder how differently Regier would manage if he had Pegula bucks to work with. Yes, I know his tenure extended into Pegula's ownership - I mean I wonder how it would have turned out if Regier had been allowed to stay and see the rebuild through. He was only allowed to start the tear-down - I'd like to see how he would have done building it back up.

Yeah that's been the biggest question with Regier's time here. What if he had the freedom to spend to add talent and retain talent? That combined with an ability to spend money on scouting may have yielded some better returns through the draft. Tough to say. I'd still lean towards him being the same risk averse guy that overvalued his players and prospects.

In fairness, nobody sane would have ever believed that we would have been on our 10th defenseman

I put the big mistake on Darcy though that offseason. Hasek was available and still playing at a high level. He should have signed him and we win the Cup in 2007. Hasek would not have blown the leads and let in the bad goals in the Ottawa series that Miller did

Yeah obviously no one could have forseen that many injuries to our defenseman. That doesn't mean you don't make any additions to a team that looked to be a serious contender. Now maybe that's on ownership, but given the small fraction you have to pay a rental for 20 games I doubt it. I think it was Regier hoarding his picks. Jillion, Paetsch, Fitzpatrick weren't adequate depth on the blue line. They were all AHL bodies. It never should have come to the point where any of them were playing significant roles on a playoff team. Bottom pairing in a pinch? Sure. It also didn't help that Connolly got injured that year. He was a huge part of our success. As for Hasek I think that bridge was burned. He was never coming back here. Too many years of carrying a team with zero support.

 

[DatGuy]

Give me Mark Hunter. Bighead has taken this team backwards. For all the Murray and Bylsma hate they will have set the bar so high Bighead won't have reached the total point output from their last year. I mean, none of us thought it was a lofty goal to reach but alas...JB can't reach the bar!

Mark Hunter is a very good option. If you don't want to fire Botts, fine....make Hunter the President of Hockey Ops and let him figure it out.

 

[sabrebuild]

I think he's done two stupid things: Trade RoR and retain Housley. And i'm not convinced he had a free hand in the former, and may not have in the latter.

Bad Moves
-RoR
+Housley
-Hagel
-Beaulieu

Good Moves
+Montour
+Skinner
+Sheary
+Scandella
+Pilut

I think your list is roughly accurate in a vacuum.

But there are also value judgments and big picture issues.

O’Reilly and Housley as choices, trump pretty much everything because they are franchise defining choices for at least 2-3 years minimum. And they were not just bad, but utterly ridiculous in the case of O’Reilly, ownership involvement or not, and Housley was a risky move to make.

The positives are legit, but most came with a poison pill. Sheary costs you cap and a roster spot to a non-entity, Hunwick is replacement level now and has no future here. Scandella was a nice add, despite his play this year, but he came with a 10 million dollar poison pill. And he cost Foligno, which is fine gotta give to get, but his presence was not replaced for two years
now.

No complaints about Pilut, just like with Antipin, the biggest issue for those moves looking even better is that his coach absolutely prevented their value from coming through. Same with Beaulieu, I’m not gonna put that in the negative category, I like the original thought, horrible last year and then he redeemed himself this year, but again Housley refused to let that shine thru.

Skinner today is just a short term Kane replacement, nothing that grew the team, just status quo. If he locks him in to a good deal I’ll give him lots of credit. If he leaves in free agency....

Don’t get me wrong, every move Botts made is not omg hf bad, it’s just that enough have been and I still don’t see an articulate plan. Just saying building the farm is not enough.

When are they competitive? What kind of forward group are we building? Not tough. Not fast. What kind of defense are we building? Dahlin, Pilut and Pray?

Does the gm think his coach is doing a good job and is just unlucky?

Say what you will about Murray, but he had a defined plan. I have young cheap talent, I’m going to load up as quick as I can to make that young talent competitive as quick as possible. Injuries to key players and certain guys falling way off made that plan fail, I’m looking at you Girgs, wtf, and Ennis’ poor brain.

But at least it was a plan. Waiting for 2 going on 3 years of Eichel’s prime to accumulate high picks and hope those picks workout is not a plan.

 

[MayDayMayDay]

Waking up to see Housley still employed. Nauseating.

 

[debaser66]

I think Ron Hextall is the best GM without a job. Who cares if nobody likes him? Gandhi could be the Sabres GM and we'd end up hating him.

Gandhis vest is not as white as history paints it.

 

[Gabrielor]

Waking up to see Housley still employed. Nauseating.

I’m genuinely curious to know whether or not Pegula’s current Bills free agent frenzy has the Sabres way down his priority list right now.

 

[debaser66]

Make Sabres Great Again

Member Berries

 

[Reddawg]

Waking up to see Housley still employed. Nauseating.

If he's not gone after three straight shutouts, he'll be here through the end of the season at minimum. Which is ridiculous, but at this point it couldn't matter less anyway. May as well let him drive the ship right into the dock and max out our draft range.

 

[DatGuy]

There's something fundamentally wrong with the Sabres organization. They've thrown money at the roster. That didn't work so we tanked. They made trades for big names - and traded them away again. They a hired Stanley Cup winning coach and a GM supposedly mutually responsible for building another SC winner. They then went back to basics and brought in a player's coach and a supposed cap wizard. They've built the players a superlative dressing room and training facility. Yet, every year since Pegula took over the team, no season has met expectations (other than the tank year). It's not being overly dramatic to say that the whole enterprise has turned to ****.

So what is the common thread running through all of this? What's the root cause of the problems here? Somebody needs to do some independent cause and effect analysis which would likely demonstrate that there's a strong correlation between the Pegula's as owners and how old man Wirtz nearly ran the Chicago franchise into the ground.

I love their money. I love the financial stability that they have brought to this franchise and the region. I love their enthusiasm and commitment to the franchise and WNY. But they don't know hockey and need to stay as far away from that end of the operation as possible. They can start by hiring a top flight Director of Hockey Operations. (Even though they had one of these once.)

My cynicism suggests that they'll just screw that up too but I don't know what else to suggest. I'll just end there.

You are absolutely correct, they need a Director or President of hockey Ops and let them run the Hockey side of the business. Someone to work with Botts and Phil. There are people out there with the knowledge and experience to do that job. Wasn't Russ Brandon the President of NON -football operations with the Bills, but was given the President role with the Sabres and could be seen talking to players, in the locker room after game / practices, etc. What hockey background does he have? Anyways, after he left Ms. Pegula. took over his role? Again what experience does she have running a hockey team? Make her President of NON-hockey related activities and get someone in there to hockey the hockey side. Botts being a first time GM can't run everything, even by this own omission. Get this team help, a collective mind to make decisions.

 

[debaser66]

He can stay if he fires Housley after the season.
If he keeps him he needs to go.

He has done enough damage with the RoR trade and did nothing when the team was sinking to halt the slide.
He just let all the guys hang out to dry because its not time yet on his timeline?
I still believe with some tweaking and call ups in December this team could be still in the hunt.
They just had to be average around 0.500 I think a good coach could have done that.
Its no wonder players start to quit especially with no real accountability for poor performance by some and punishment for the slightest mistakes by others.
I see no progress on the ice in them playing as a team.
Just the players like Eichel/Dahlin/Reinhart who are good anyways.

 

[OkimLom]

I think he's done two stupid things: Trade RoR and retain Housley. And i'm not convinced he had a free hand in the former, and may not have in the latter.

Bad Moves
-RoR
+Housley
-Hagel
-Beaulieu

Good Moves
+Montour
+Skinner
+Sheary
+Scandella
+Pilut

My List:

Bad Moves:
- Trading ROR
- Hiring Housley
- Keeping Mittelstadt in the NHL
- Keeping Tage in the NHL
- Trading for Scandella - (only because last year it was a good move, with the assumption that they would be actively trying to improve the team for the 18-19 season)

Good Moves:
- Hiring Taylor (though this was a hindsight 20/20 comment, because there was nothing for me to say he would've been a good Head Coach because of the lack of evidence, though he was an assistant). Either Botts got lucky, or his time with Taylor together in Rochester gave him a glimpse on what he thought he could be (props to him for that if true)
- Skinner was a good trade with the idea we would be actively competitive.
- Trade for Montour
- Signing of Pilut
- Not doing anything to be able to draft Dahlin