Proposal: Bruins Trade proposals VI - MOD in OP

[22Brad Park]

Dzingel shouldn't command much. I have seen alot of him over the last few years and he doesn't have a great shot. He has trouble burying open chances and that has been the knock against him. He has manufactured goals from his speed and his effort. He is also another Left Handed LW which is not what we need.

Yea bums like Nordstrom but to many lefthanded shots.

 

[BruinDust]

Really? I don't buy that.

But your reasoning still makes no sense. Debrusk was the 2nd guy they picked of the 3. So one of those two picks they added has to be him (by your logic that they're ranked).

Here's the reality.

They took the 3 players in the order of preference. Not even debatable. No GM would of stepped up and pick say his 2nd choice at 13 then his 1st choice at 14 even if the picks are back-to-back. So say they picked their 2nd choice at 13, then a GM calls and makes a great offer for 14. Do you now not make the deal because you make the mistake of not taking the guy you wanted the most at 13?

And we don't know if Zboril is even there at 14. We'll never know. But we can't assume he would be. The pick was Debrusk, and it was Boston's pick. So I'm not lumping him in with the returns for Lucic and Hamilton.

You can only look at those deals as they played out. And the reality is the Bruins up to this point don't have much NHL production to show for them.

 

[TCB]

Been saying Dzingel for some time now, if the Bruins can add him along with a Tierney or Pageau, Id be happy as it would improve both the 2nd and 3rd lines.

Dzingel is very under-rated and plays a fine two-way game. He's streaky at times as far as his scoring, but he can be real explosive. Tierney or Pageau would be a dandy pick-up as a third line center, I'd prefer Tierney but either would be nice.

A trade and signed Duchene would be even sweeter, as I think their moving him as well. Stone is their number one priority if they can get him to re-sign.

All depending on the cost of course but the Bruins are rich in defensive prospects and the Sena are not, add to that the Bruins have Chabots junior d-partner in Zboril and Ottawas hometown boy in Senyshyn.

 

[BruinDust]

Are you really giving up on Cehlarik?

Leave him where he is for February

I think Cassidy already has.

 

[BruinsBtn]

Here's the reality.

They took the 3 players in the order of preference. Not even debatable. No GM would of stepped up and pick say his 2nd choice at 13 then his 1st choice at 14 even if the picks are back-to-back. So say they picked their 2nd choice at 13, then a GM calls and makes a great offer for 14. Do you now not make the deal because you make the mistake of not taking the guy you wanted the most at 13?

And we don't know if Zboril is even there at 14. We'll never know. But we can't assume he would be. The pick was Debrusk, and it was Boston's pick. So I'm not lumping him in with the returns for Lucic and Hamilton.

You can only look at those deals as they played out. And the reality is the Bruins up to this point don't have much NHL production to show for them.

I think that's totally debatable.

If I have 3 guys picks back to back. I take them along the lines of the consensus rank. If you go and pick Zboril 3rd it's a bit of a slap in the face. Whereas if you take him first, it shouldn't bother the other guys because of where he was ranked.

 

[Mainehockey33]

Trading for an older player during a career year that doesn’t rack up many assists and plays with a talented center, what could go wrong. Duchene would be a better target imo.

 

[wintersej]

Disagree. Dzingel and Belesky are different players. Belesky was always a 3rd line banger. Dzingel is more of a scorer.

PPG prior to free agency
Belesky:
09-10: 0.30
10-11: 0.29
11-12: 0.21
12-13: 0.30
13-14: 0.44
14-15: 0.49

Dzingel:
15-16: 0.30
16-17: 0.40
17-18: 0.52
18-19: 0.79

Dzingel is already a two time 20 goal scorer. Belesky had one in his contract year (22) and it was a huge outlier. Dzingel is a different & better player.

Now, look at 5 on 5 goals per minute numbers.

 

[bp13]

I think the people pushing for Panarin and Stone are asking for too much.

The Bruins don't need a 1st line player. The powerplay is #2 in the league so whoever comes in isn't going to add that much there.

What they need is a guy who can compliment Debrusk and Krejci. I'm ok with Dzingle, Zucarello, Silverberg or Nyqvist. I'm not really interested in Simmonds. If the Bruins want a guy they have a chance to re-sign, Dzingle is the youngest and he's having the best season.

Sorta depends on what your goal is right?

It's clear you can't have any success in the playoffs without secondary scoring. And it makes sense you wouldn't want to rely on your power play heavily once games get called tighter and PK units go to school on ONE team only. So, the Bruins aren't well-positioned for success given those two issues. But, if they add a Dzingle, Zucc, Silverberg, etc., then yes their 2nd/3rd lines now look better. But if they're making a Cup run, does that make them a potent threat against teams with the offensive firepower of TB or Toronto? Hell no.

So if Sweeney wants to check the "I made a trade to help my team" box (like last year with Nash), then those names you mention fit the bill. If he actually wants to try to compete with the heavyweights and load up, then he needs a lot more. He needs to land a real player, like Panarin or Tarasenko. A 1st line guy gives this team two excellent lines...that would make them a threat.

 

[BruinDust]

I think that's totally debatable.

If I have 3 guys picks back to back. I take them along the lines of the consensus rank. If you go and pick Zboril 3rd it's a bit of a slap in the face. Whereas if you take him first, it shouldn't bother the other guys because of where he was ranked.

What do you mean by ranked? Teams aren't revealing their lists to players after their picked. And they (the players) don't care about Central Scouting, or any other ranking published, because very few of those publications have any particular player ranked in the exact same spot across each publication. (well outside of the top few guys at least).

You may take them along the lines of "consensus rank" whatever that is. (Do you have a link to this consensus ranking, I've never heard of it.)

An NHL GM would never do that. Ever.

The Bruins own pick was Debrusk. So he's not part of the return for Lucic or Hamilton. Period.

We know they ranked the 3 players in the order they picked them. So if Zboril was already gone at 13, you get Debrusk at 14. If he wasn't, you get Zboril at 14, which is even worse.

 

[BruinsBtn]

What do you mean by ranked? Teams aren't revealing their lists to players after their picked. And they (the players) don't care about Central Scouting, or any other ranking published, because very few of those publications have any particular player ranked in the exact same spot across each publication. (well outside of the top few guys at least).

You may take them along the lines of "consensus rank" whatever that is. (Do you have a link to this consensus ranking, I've never heard of it.)

An NHL GM would never do that. Ever.

The Bruins own pick was Debrusk. So he's not part of the return for Lucic or Hamilton. Period.

We know they ranked the 3 players in the order they picked them. So if Zboril was already gone at 13, you get Debrusk. If he wasn't, you get Zboril, which is even worse.

No, we don't know that at all. You're assuming it. And consensus rankings are very easy to find. I can think of a million reasons not to take them by order of preference. If they LOVED Senyshyn they should still take him 3rd because he was an off-the-board pick and taking him at #13 would have put even more pressure on him.

 

[BruinsBtn]

Sorta depends on what your goal is right?

It's clear you can't have any success in the playoffs without secondary scoring. And it makes sense you wouldn't want to rely on your power play heavily once games get called tighter and PK units go to school on ONE team only. So, the Bruins aren't well-positioned for success given those two issues. But, if they add a Dzingle, Zucc, Silverberg, etc., then yes their 2nd/3rd lines now look better. But if they're making a Cup run, does that make them a potent threat against teams with the offensive firepower of TB or Toronto? Hell no.

So if Sweeney wants to check the "I made a trade to help my team" box (like last year with Nash), then those names you mention fit the bill. If he actually wants to try to compete with the heavyweights and load up, then he needs a lot more. He needs to land a real player, like Panarin or Tarasenko. A 1st line guy gives this team two excellent lines...that would make them a threat.

I don't think Tarasenko is available for picks/prospects so you need to subtract a big part of the team to get him, if he's even available at all. With Panarin, I don't think he would re-sign in Boston. So you're paying a premium for a guy and losing him or risking losing him.

 

[Boston Bandit]

Ryan Dzingel

2018-19

GP 48 G 20 A 18 PTS 38

Age 26 Hand L

SCOUTING REPORT

Has great skating ability and can play on either side of center at the highest level, which adds to his overall value. Works hard every shift and displays good energy.

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[ON3M4N]

I guess TJ Oshie, Evander Kane and Justin Schultz all have idiots for agents.

What are you even talking about?

Cap Hit Rank by Position
Oshie - 18th
Kane - 5th
Schultz - 27th

Oshie nearly makes Marchand money and Kane makes more than both Marchand & Pastrnak. I'd say their agents did pretty damn well for them consider neither guy is at the level of 63 or 88.

 

[trenton1]

everything i've seen/heard about him not fitting in with Pittsburgh is because he was the 3C. Do we think it'll be a different result here?

Honestly, I'd consider it a pretty decent upgrade to get a 3rd liner with 9 goals in 40 games. Bruins only have 5 forwards with more than 6 goals. An 18 goal pace is just fine for a 3rd liner, IMO. Plus you get a lefty center in the top 9 which can help.

 

[BruinDust]

No, we don't know that at all. You're assuming it. And consensus rankings are very easy to find. I can think of a million reasons not to take them by order of preference. If they LOVED Senyshyn they should still take him 3rd because he was an off-the-board pick and taking him at #13 would have put even more pressure on him.

Where are they then, these mythical concensus rankings?

A million reasons? You stated one, and it's not even a good or logical reason.

 

[BruinsBtn]

What are you even talking about?

Cap Hit Rank by Position
Oshie - 18th
Kane - 5th
Schultz - 27th

Oshie nearly makes Marchand money and Kane makes more than both Marchand & Pastrnak. I'd say their agents did pretty damn well for them consider neither guy is at the level of 63 or 88.

Do you look up anything before you write? Schultz re-signed with Pittsburgh for $1.4m after winning the Cup with them. Oshie would have undoubtedly got more than $5.75m on the open market.

Using bargain contracts like Marchand as a benchmark is utterly stupid.

 

[compan]

I posted this in another thread, but I think it is relevant here to show just how much we need quality middle 6 wingers at the deadline...

Collectively, all of the players that regularly rotate through the bottom 6 have a 0.2 PPG average. Now I am using the Bottom 6 because we know how much rotation there is between the 3rd and 4th line that there are so few players we can say are consistently on either.

Prorate that out to an 82 game season, this is what our average bottom 6 player produces:
16.4 pts in an 82 game season, which would be 7.6g - 8.8a based on how their contribution aligns to their total point contribution

Compare that to our Top 3:
97.7 pts in an 82 game season, which would be 39.2g - 58.5a based on their collective contribution

Top 4-6 (only Krejci and Debrusk have been consistently in this group, so this is just them)
51.1 pts in an 82 game season, which would be 21.2g - 30a based on their collective contribution


That is way too much of a gap between our 1st and 2nd line and an even larger one between our 2nd and our bottom 6.

For reference, our Top 5(6) versus our Bottom 6 is as such:
Top 5(6) - 78.8 pts in an 82 game season, which is 31.9g - 46.9a
Bottom 6 - 16.4 pts in an 82 game season, which is 7.6g - 8.8a

 

[BruinsBtn]

Where are they then, these mythical concensus rankings?

A million reasons? You stated one, and it's not even a good or logical reason.

Here you go: LMGTFY

 

[Over the volcano]

Like Dzingel but really hope they don't pay through the nose for a rental.

If its a guy with term that fits beyond 2019 I'm 100% on board, but if its just a shiny scratch ticket for the next couple months then no thanks.

I posted this in another thread, but I think it is relevant here to show just how much we need quality middle 6 wingers at the deadline...

Collectively, all of the players that regularly rotate through the bottom 6 have a 0.2 PPG average. Now I am using the Bottom 6 because we know how much rotation there is between the 3rd and 4th line that there are so few players we can say are consistently on either.

Prorate that out to an 82 game season, this is what our average bottom 6 player produces:
16.4 pts in an 82 game season, which would be 7.6g - 8.8a based on how their contribution aligns to their total point contribution

Compare that to our Top 3:
97.7 pts in an 82 game season, which would be 39.2g - 58.5a based on their collective contribution

Top 4-6 (only Krejci and Debrusk have been consistently in this group, so this is just them)
51.1 pts in an 82 game season, which would be 21.2g - 30a based on their collective contribution


That is way too much of a gap between our 1st and 2nd line and an even larger one between our 2nd and our bottom 6.

For reference, our Top 5(6) versus our Bottom 6 is as such:
Top 5(6) - 78.8 pts in an 82 game season, which is 31.9g - 46.9a
Bottom 6 - 16.4 pts in an 82 game season, which is 7.6g - 8.8a

I don't even know who our second line is. . . Krejci, Debrusk + ?????

 

[compan]

I don't even know who is on our second line Krejci, Debrusk and ?????

...exactly lol. That is why I only really averaged those two AND doing so likely scaled the 2nd line's numbers higher. Who else has spent time up there... Cehlarik, Kuraly, Donato, Nordstrom, Bjork, Heinen... am I forgetting anyone?

 

[TCB]

Trading for an older player during a career year that doesn’t rack up many assists and plays with a talented center, what could go wrong. Duchene would be a better target imo.

I think Duchene is pricing himself out of the Sens reach as well as many other teams including the Bruins. He'd be a great pick-up needless to say, but I wouldn't want to over-pay for a rental and I really think he's looking for a big pay-day come July 1st.

In Dzingel defense this is only his 3rd full year in Ottawa and his goal totals have climbed each year from 14 to 20 and so far this year he's scored twenty as well. He played 3 years at Ohio St and played over 100 games down in the AHL and at every step has showed that he can score. He'll also be looking fo a significant raise but I have no doubt he'll be productive.

The one name who pops up quit a bit and is having a down year, but still has a year remaining is Toffoli, who could be a buy low candidate and if he returns to form, would be exactly what the bruins have been looking for to fix their second line RW problem.

 

[ON3M4N]

Do you look up anything before you write? Schultz re-signed with Pittsburgh for $1.4m after winning the Cup with them. Oshie would have undoubtedly got more than $5.75m on the open market.

Using bargain contracts like Marchand as a benchmark is utterly stupid.

Schultz was also coming off of the worst year of his career when he signed that 1 year deal. But why let facts get in the way of things right?

BTW what was Oshie going to get on the open market? You can call the Marchand deal a bargain all you want, but Marchand signed that deal a year before Oshie signed his. You can bet the farm that Washington was using Marchand's contract as part of their negotiations.

BTW I like how you seem to have ignore where each guy ranks in pay against his peers...but again why let facts get in the way, right?

 

[BB88]

If Senyshyn pans out and becomes a 20-goal scoring winger, then that problem is effectively solved. Still, I would love to see Boston land Mark Stone (probably as a free agent signing), which would enable Senyshyn to become the third-line RW, with less pressure on him and where he could potentially thrive.

With Bergeron& Krejci getting older I can't see that being enough to solve it longterm. For longterm future they need a high end player.

But with that Florida trade Florida is going to be a big player for Panarin with Barkov/Dadonov/Mamin/Kis connection.

 

[Blowfish]

Same age. Same progression of rate stats. Finally got to play with top talent and had his production explode. You are totally wrong here. Book it.

Now, its TOTALLY possible that Dzingel doesn't get hurt. And continues a positive progression. But it was just as likely with Beleskey.

Then only difference is one is actually skilled and can skate faster than my 90 year old grandmother. Not at all the same player. Move on.

 

[Blowfish]

Ryan Dzingel

2018-19

GP 48 G 20 A 18 PTS 38

Age 26 Hand L

SCOUTING REPORT

Has great skating ability and can play on either side of center at the highest level, which adds to his overall value. Works hard every shift and displays good energy.

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Sounds like Beleskey? Not!!!!!!