Prospect Info: Bowen Byram - Canada’s Savior - Thread 2.0

[Ararana]

Sometimes being a quick or agile skater can actually limit the amount of time you have to make the right or safe play. So maybe in a weird way Timmins' skating is an advantage for him.

That's the Francois Beauchemin business model right there

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Question.

For those saying Timmins has been excellent and fantastic is that your opinion of his play relative to expectations? Or do you believe he’s been excellent/fantastic as you would normally rate any NHL defenceman?

To me, Girard was fantastic in game 2, Toews was excellent in game 3. Maybe I’m just quibbling over words here.

Relative to expectations.

He has clearly shown that he is an NHL caliber Dman so far and has shown a number of flashes of the kind of upside he has if he can keep healthy and keep building on the solid start.


Next up is for Byram to go do the same thing hopefully. If he does, then like Timmins he should start to earn more leeway and more rope from Bednar.

Hopefully he does so well that he forces the Avs hands into another real tough decision on who is the 7th Dman.

 

[Richard88]

I would guess the majority of us had zero to low expectations for Timmins so in regards to the bolded, I'd say it's both.

Think we're all just desperate to see one draft pick outside the 1st round become an NHL player...

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

The thing with Timmins is, he's had so many different battles with injury in the past few years, I think a lot of people have forgotten just how ridiculously good his D+1 year was.


He was the best Dman on team Canada back in the 2018 WJs. Dominated that tournament.


His development has been slow and hard to gage since then strictly because of injuries. But he was on his way to a very good 1st season in the AHL last year before Covid and injuries slowed that down.


He's a legit, strong defensive prospect that some of us have been quite high on here for years now. The biggest thing he needed for himself and his development was just to stay healthy. Knock on wood, but so far he has done exactly that this year and it really isn't a surprise to me to see him starting to find his game and really excel in the NHL. If he can battle through the health stuff and put together a full season here.... I think he'll have stolen that #2 RHD spot from EJ by seasons end. He's a great player who should get better as the year goes on.

 

[Richard88]

The thing with Timmins is, he's had so many different battles with injury in the past few years, I think a lot of people have forgotten just how ridiculously good his D+1 year was.


He was the best Dman on team Canada back in the 2018 WJs. Dominated that tournament.


His development has been slow and hard to gage since then strictly because of injuries. But he was on his way to a very good 1st season in the AHL last year before Covid and injuries slowed that down.


He's a legit, strong defensive prospect that some of us have been quite high on here for years now. The biggest thing he needed for himself and his development was just to stay healthy. Knock on wood, but so far he has done exactly that this year and it really isn't a surprise to me to see him starting to find his game and really excel in the NHL. If he can battle through the health stuff and put together a full season here.... I think he'll have stolen that #2 RHD spot from EJ by seasons end. He's a great player who should get better as the year goes on.

Good post. I like the optimism on Timmins.

Curious what you think about Timmins as a long-term partner for Girard on the 2nd pair?

Girard and Timmins played together in the 1st game against St. Louis and at times they had serious problems against the cycle in their own zone. It wasn't a surprise then that Graves got paired with Girard for the next game and it seemed to have helped a lot as that pair didn't struggle against St. Louis' cycle game and were again paired together against LAK.

It's admittedly a small sample size, and I'm not sure much should be taken from the first game of the season after no pre-season, but it did seem to me that Girard really benefits from having a big RHD next to him to help counter the size mismatch on the cycle. Can Timmins be that guy?

Just to be clear, I'm not questioning whether Timmins is good enough to be on the 2nd pair. I'm specifically referring to if he has the attributes to form a solid pairing with Girard, given the physical limitation Girard has against the cycle.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Question.

For those saying Timmins has been excellent and fantastic is that your opinion of his play relative to expectations? Or do you believe he’s been excellent/fantastic as you would normally rate any NHL defenceman?

To me, Girard was fantastic in game 2, Toews was excellent in game 3. Maybe I’m just quibbling over words here.

For me it’s relative to expectations. I was expecting him to come in and look like a borderline NHL’er with extreme highs and lows. What he has shown to me through a small sample is that he’s a surefire NHL’er with consistent “good” plays. Not as hot and cold as expected. I expect Bo to have extreme high’s and lows too.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

For me it’s relative to expectations. I was expecting him to come in and look like a borderline NHL’er with extreme highs and lows. What he has shown to me through a small sample is that he’s a surefire NHL’er with consistent “good” plays. Not as hot and cold as expected. I expect Bo to have extreme high’s and lows too.

Gotcha. I liked Timmins a lot as a prospect, so this is pretty much what I expected from him. If he makes minor progressions throughout the year, the Avs are in good shape with him for the playoffs.

My expectations for Byram are probably higher than what you’re describing. I’m not really expecting extreme highs, but I expect mid-level to very good play. Though, I wouldn’t be surprised if he has a tough first game.

 

[Barklez]

Gotcha. I liked Timmins a lot as a prospect, so this is pretty much what I expected from him. If he makes minor progressions throughout the year, the Avs are in good shape with him for the playoffs.

My expectations for Byram are probably higher than what you’re describing. I’m not really expecting extreme highs, but I expect mid-level to very good play. Though, I wouldn’t be surprised if he has a tough first game.

This is exactly what I’ve been trying to encourage caution about.

Kid is great and is going to be great but it’s unreasonable to not expect a bumpy ride here for the first half season at least. Last year he wasn’t at an NHL level. Expecting anything above (net) competent NHL-level play with some highs and lows, and flashes in his strength areas, is setting him up for failure.

 

[Richard88]

This is exactly what I’ve been trying to encourage caution about.

Kid is great and is going to be great but it’s unreasonable to not expect a bumpy ride here for the first half season at least. Last year he wasn’t at an NHL level. Expecting anything above (net) competent NHL-level play with some highs and lows, and flashes in his strength areas, is setting him up for failure.

I expect him to step on the ice in game 1 and literally be Nicklas Lidström.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Good post. I like the optimism on Timmins.

Curious what you think about Timmins as a long-term partner for Girard on the 2nd pair?

Girard and Timmins played together in the 1st game against St. Louis and at times they had serious problems against the cycle in their own zone. It wasn't a surprise then that Graves got paired with Girard for the next game and it seemed to have helped a lot as that pair didn't struggle against St. Louis' cycle game and were again paired together against LAK.

It's admittedly a small sample size, and I'm not sure much should be taken from the first game of the season after no pre-season, but it did seem to me that Girard really benefits from having a big RHD next to him to help counter the size mismatch on the cycle. Can Timmins be that guy?

Just to be clear, I'm not questioning whether Timmins is good enough to be on the 2nd pair. I'm specifically referring to if he has the attributes to form a solid pairing with Girard, given the physical limitation Girard has against the cycle.

I think it could work.

But, its weird. The Avs are in a weird spot right now that could get even more awkward going forward.


If Timmins clicks like I think he will, and stays healthy... To me he is the ling term #2RHD behind Makar. And a damn good one. He brings a real strong two way element to his play where he always makes the safe but correct play. That's how he was so great at those 2018 WJCs was from just always making the best play available.


So... If he does earn that spot, all of a sudden you have 3 LHD that should be very well deserving of Top 4 Minutes. Toews is every bit the part of a Top pairing Defender for us so far and I expect that to continue with him and Makar together. Then you have G and Byram after that. G is already a high end Top 4D who plays more and more like a Top pairing guy himself seemingly every game.



So, where does Byram fit into all of this? For now it isn't an issue because this is a condensed season, and Timmins nor Byram has so far truly established themselves as Top 4 guys so they should still be having healthy battles for ice time moving forward.

But in a couple of months from now or especially next year things could take a very different look.


I think we are going to come a time where we simply have too many high end Defenders, and just not enough roster spots or minutes to go around for everyone. And then the difficult decision is going to be about who gets traded, and what do they get traded for?


It's a very welcomed problem to have, and it isn't even a problem yet. But I think give it a year, and it could be a problem.


Personally... I like the idea of a G/Timmins long term 2nd pairing. They compliment each others strengths and weaknesses quite well, and they fill that Left/Right shot which personally I consider to be important especially in your Top 4 Defense.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

This is exactly what I’ve been trying to encourage caution about.

Kid is great and is going to be great but it’s unreasonable to not expect a bumpy ride here for the first half season at least. Last year he wasn’t at an NHL level. Expecting anything above (net) competent NHL-level play with some highs and lows, and flashes in his strength areas, is setting him up for failure.

Well, my expectations will have no impact on his performance.

Of course he’s going to have bumps along the way, but he’s a good player and that’s what I’m expecting to see. If the Avs let him work through some kinks in the first 5-6 games, I expect a good positive contributor.

Bednar already talked about how the light started to go on for him towards the end of the Avs bubble.

I’m not saying he’s going to walk in and be a #3 level defenceman, or anything like that. But, yeah, if Byram is playing like an Ian Cole, or even how Gilbert played last night after his 5th/6th game I’ll be disappointed.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

 

[Cousin Eddie]

I understand letting Byram get some more practice and reps with the team, but sitting him out tonight and playing him tomorrow is no benefit from that perspective. There won’t be any practices before today’s game or tomorrow’s game. Just morning skates. Now an extra game to watch to study systems might be of some benefit but there won’t be any physical benefit to holding him out tonight.

I’m hoping we get surprised and see him lace up tonight. EJ clearly isn’t up to speed. Gilbert wasn’t awful or anything but it’s Dennis Gilbert so we don’t need to gift him games. Sit those two and get Bo into action tonight!

Tis what I say....



Let’s,
F ucking
Go

 

[Tralfamadore]

View attachment 386542

Lol perfect GIF.

Let's see watcha got Bo!!

 

[MaKarter]

 

[Ararana]

 

[tigervixxxen]

Bo said he was a little surprised so might be a game or two early. Bednar said he was gonna talk to Sakic yesterday, hope that means they just decided on the commitment and get things rolling now.

I’m excited, let’s go Bo!

 

[Richard88]

I think it could work.

But, its weird. The Avs are in a weird spot right now that could get even more awkward going forward.

If Timmins clicks like I think he will, and stays healthy... To me he is the ling term #2RHD behind Makar. And a damn good one. He brings a real strong two way element to his play where he always makes the safe but correct play. That's how he was so great at those 2018 WJCs was from just always making the best play available.

So... If he does earn that spot, all of a sudden you have 3 LHD that should be very well deserving of Top 4 Minutes. Toews is every bit the part of a Top pairing Defender for us so far and I expect that to continue with him and Makar together. Then you have G and Byram after that. G is already a high end Top 4D who plays more and more like a Top pairing guy himself seemingly every game.

So, where does Byram fit into all of this? For now it isn't an issue because this is a condensed season, and Timmins nor Byram has so far truly established themselves as Top 4 guys so they should still be having healthy battles for ice time moving forward.

But in a couple of months from now or especially next year things could take a very different look.

I think we are going to come a time where we simply have too many high end Defenders, and just not enough roster spots or minutes to go around for everyone. And then the difficult decision is going to be about who gets traded, and what do they get traded for?

It's a very welcomed problem to have, and it isn't even a problem yet. But I think give it a year, and it could be a problem.

Personally... I like the idea of a G/Timmins long term 2nd pairing. They compliment each others strengths and weaknesses quite well, and they fill that Left/Right shot which personally I consider to be important especially in your Top 4 Defense.

Timmins/Girard do compliment each others game pretty well with the puck, but off the puck they don't, simply because neither of them is particularly big or physical (and in Girard's case that's especially the case), causing them to struggle on the cycle.

If it turns out that Girard absolutely needs a big strong shutdown type next to him and Timmins can't fill that role, then Timmins could find himself the odd man out among our up and coming RHD's. Particularly if Helleson keeps developing as he has and shows that he can play that 'shutdown' role next to Girard in the not to distant future.

As for fitting 5 top 4 Dmen into this D group, something will indeed have to give at some stage. A good problem to have certainly. I again see Timmins as being the odd man out in case it becomes an issue between Toews/Makar/Girard/Byram/Timmins. Though if we can get through a couple of years before that becomes a serious issue then I think we could get close enough to the end of Toews' contract to the point where you consider trading him and running with Byram-Makar/Girard-Timmins, or some variation of that.

As for what they'd be traded for, a goalie could become a need sooner or later if Grubauer's groin doesn't hold up, possibly as soon as this season. In which case having a spare top 4 or top 6 Dman would come in handy in a goalie trade. Alternatively we could probably fetch a pretty solid middle 6 C.

 

[PepsiCenterMagic]

What I haven't seen anywhere (because I haven't looked) is a good player comparison.

Who's a good comparison for Byram? Are we getting our "Seth Jones" a few years late?

 

[hoserthehorrible]

What I haven't seen anywhere (because I haven't looked) is a good player comparison.

Who's a good comparison for Byram? Are we getting our "Seth Jones" a few years late?

He reminds me a little bit of Sandis Ozolinsh.

Ozo would lead the offensive rush and be the first guy back on defense. They called him the Wandering Latvian because he was all over the ice and had the skating ability to pull it off.

I think Bo will end up being better defensively that Ozo but if he plays offense like Ozo then that's good by me.

 

[Barklez]

What I haven't seen anywhere (because I haven't looked) is a good player comparison.

Who's a good comparison for Byram? Are we getting our "Seth Jones" a few years late?

Provorov. (Then go up from there)

 

[Islay1989]

He reminds me a little bit of Sandis Ozolinsh.

Ozo would lead the offensive rush and be the first guy back on defense. They called him the Wandering Latvian because he was all over the ice and had the skating ability to pull it off.

I think Bo will end up being better defensively that Ozo but if he plays offense like Ozo then that's good by me.

He is nothing like Ozolinsh.

 

[hoserthehorrible]

He is nothing like Ozolinsh.

That's your opinion. You're entitled to it.

In Juniors Bo would be all over the ice and had the skating ability to pull it off. He would rush the puck frequently and he would be the first man back. That's also how Ozo played his entire career.

Time will tell what type of game Bo plays at the NHL level; however if he continues to play like he did in Juniors then he very much will end playing a lot like Ozo did.

 

[Islay1989]

That's your opinion. You're entitled to it.

Not a single part of his game is similar to Ozo's. Ozo was a rover, he wouldn't know what a defensive zone is if you showed it to him on a map. He was supremely agressive and always gambling like crazy. Byram while a great skater and offensively talented plays nothing like that, he didn't play like that for the Giants and he sure won't play like that in the NHL.

 

[Pokecheque]

God I HOPE he's better defensively than Ozolinsh. I wouldn't mind the offense though.