Player Discussion Bo Horvat

[bobbyb2009]

I'd quite easily give Stone 7++ million. He's worth it. 8 million? Still do it.

He's a true elite, playdriving and scoring winger.

I like this guy a lot.

If we were to give him 8 and he wanted to be here (both very questionable), what does that mean when we have to sign Hughes, Boeser, and Petterson, plus this years first (if that second contract) overlaps? How does our cap look? Is it possible to make that work? I know this is a future challenge and would be an amazing one to have, worrying about contract for such good players, but if EP us what we think he is and Boeser and Hughes are. how do you afford all this big deals?

Serious question, not moaning or anything...

 

[kanuck87]

Also too early to make a pay for a big FA when this team is still 2-3 seasons away from even thinking about contending. Still need Demko to develop and need Hughes and at least another top end defenseman

 

[BoHorvat 53]

I'd quite easily give Stone 7++ million. He's worth it. 8 million? Still do it.

He's a true elite, playdriving and scoring winger.

9m aav is probably what it will take. At that point, I would think twice

 

[DL44]

Schneider for horvat pick..entering the conversation for best canucks all time trades maybe? And gillis' best move, especially considering his handling of the goalie situation and how it played into his firing.

I have a hard time ranking trades for picks that high... comes down to making the right pick.
I look at it as Gillis' best draft pick before it being his best trade.
But people may look at it differently..
If they do, then, yeah - probably the best long term result.

Hard to beat the Ehrhoff trade for how it changed the complete dynamic of the team into a elite transition team.

 

[bossram]

We can't afford to pay him 7+ million when a Boeser extension is coming up too. Tough to pay multiple wingers that much money and still try to fill the rest of the team.

Well, it is when you pay a bunch of bottom-six and bottom-pair players big money.

 

[sexydonut]

Schneider for horvat pick..entering the conversation for best canucks all time trades maybe? And gillis' best move, especially considering his handling of the goalie situation and how it played into his firing.

Naslund for Alek Stojanov. At least Schneider was a good goalie for a few years before he fell apart physically. Alek Stojanov was nothing but deadweight.

 

[bossram]

I like this guy a lot.

If we were to give him 8 and he wanted to be here (both very questionable), what does that mean when we have to sign Hughes, Boeser, and Petterson, plus this years first (if that second contract) overlaps? How does our cap look? Is it possible to make that work? I know this is a future challenge and would be an amazing one to have, worrying about contract for such good players, but if EP us what we think he is and Boeser and Hughes are. how do you afford all this big deals?

Serious question, not moaning or anything...

I think it's pretty affordable...had we been actually smart about allocating cap dollars. Jettison/don't sign Eriksson, Beagle, Gudbranson, Gagner, etc... That's a lot of extra wiggle room.

Good teams have good players. Pay to get good players. You fill in the holes with ELCs and cheap vets. Everyone has been saying for years Tampa can't keep their squad together, yet they still have all their core pieces.

 

[kanuck87]

Well, it is when you pay a bunch of bottom-six and bottom-pair players big money.

Regardless, looking at the bigger picture here. Even with a clean cap sheet, it's still difficult to pay multiple wingers that much money. No team in the league pays multiple wingers 7+ million.

EDIT: Okay a couple of team do. Philly and Ottawa. Neither of them are good

 

[DL44]

Down the road, you get a hypothetical cap structure similar to:

8 - 10 - 7
3.5 - 5.5 - 3.5
3- 4.4 - 6
2 - 3 - 1

8 - 4.5
3 - 4
2 - 2

3.6/2

That's 86 mil... Work some numbers around... etc etc..
That's also a premature tagging of EP at 10mil, and QH at 8mil... 3 seasons away.

It basically shows.. .yeah.. we could probably afford Stone around 8.
And thats with Eriksson still in at 6...
Depth would have to be different... but if there's one thing this season is showing... majority of teams are running nothing players on the 4th and many cases parts of their 3rd as well.....

Meh.. Where we are on our development curve - I would wait to see who the Michael Stone is of the 2020 off-season instead...

 

[kanuck87]

Down the road, you get a hypothetical cap structure similar to:

8 - 10 - 7
3.5 - 5.5 - 3.5
3- 4.4 - 6
2 - 3 - 1

8 - 4.5
3 - 4
2 - 2

3.6/2

That's 86 mil... Work some numbers around... etc etc..
That's also a premature tagging of EP at 10mil, and QH at 8mil... 3 seasons away.

It basically shows.. .yeah.. we could probably afford Stone around 8.
And thats with Eriksson still in at 6...
Depth would have to be different... but if there's one thing this season is showing... majority of teams are running nothing players on the 4th and many cases parts of their 3rd as well.....

Meh.. Where we are on our development curve - I would wait to see who the Michael Stone is of the 2020 off-season instead...

That defense is going to be awful if we're paying no one else over 4.5 besides Hughes (hypothetically).

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

I have visions of Horvat passing Pettersson the Cup.

 

[bossram]

Regardless, looking at the bigger picture here. Even with a clean cap sheet, it's still difficult to pay multiple wingers that much money. No team in the league pays multiple wingers 7+ million.

EDIT: Okay a couple of team do. Philly and Ottawa. Neither of them are good

The bigger picture is that with better cap management we could afford better players. Others posters have shown that it's quite possible to get us cap compliant even with EP at like 11 million, Boeser at 7, and a hypothetical Stone at 8.

 

[Jyrki21]

Schneider for horvat pick..entering the conversation for best canucks all time trades maybe? And gillis' best move, especially considering his handling of the goalie situation and how it played into his firing.

Hard to beat the Ehrhoff trade for how it changed the complete dynamic of the team into a elite transition team.

Yeah, just because of the timing (and the very real possibility that Horvat's best years could end up being wasted) Gillis' best move in terms of impact in winning 99% of the Cup is probably adding Ehrhoff. And signing Samuelsson too often goes overlooked, but that turned out to be quite important.

In terms of pure value, though, you'd have to think it's Horvat. As a number of us have said, ironic that the biggest step toward the rebuild of Jim Benning's Canucks was a 2013 trade by Mike Gillis.

 

[Hit the post]

Naslund for Alek Stojanov. At least Schneider was a good goalie for a few years before he fell apart physically. Alek Stojanov was nothing but deadweight.

Stojanov was more than dead weight before his major injury. Not saying had he been healthy the trade wouldn't have been a huge loss for the Pens, but he was no longer the same physical presence. Could've used a prime Stojanov against the Bruins in 2011.

 

[kanuck87]

The bigger picture is that with better cap management we could afford better players. Others posters have shown that it's quite possible to get us cap compliant even with EP at like 11 million, Boeser at 7, and a hypothetical Stone at 8.

There's no doubt we could fit Stone in if we wanted to, but I don't believe it's prudent to do so at the expense of upgrading other positions. Wingers are arguably the least valuable position in the game, and that money could be better used for defensemen.

 

[Jyrki21]

Well, it is when you pay a bunch of bottom-six and bottom-pair players big money.

That’s why Jim sometimes needs a lesson:

 

[bossram]

That’s why Jim sometimes needs a lesson:

If only he'd listened...

 

[Canuckle1970]

I remember when GB announced the trade in 2013, and heard that Schneider was going to Jersey for their 9th pick. I waited for the additional asset that never came. Like so many others, I thought we'd been fleeced.

I'll always have a soft spot for Schneids, but thank you Mr. Gillis, and most of all - thanks BO!

 

[SillyRabbit]

I’m honestly waiting for the other shoe to drop with Horvat.

I don’t know if it’s because of all the suffering I’ve endured as a Canucks fan but I just can’t seem to believe that Horvat is actually turning out to be this good.

He’s literally like a poor mans Bergeron out there.

It’s like prime Kesler, but starting the prime much earlier and not such a puck hog.

If he can sustain this level of offensive production he’s going to be an All-Star caliber player for many years.

I’m extremely impressed with how he’s progressed year to year, and it looks like he’s taken another leap this season.

 

[canuckking1]

I’m honestly waiting for the other shoe to drop with Horvat.

I don’t know if it’s because of all the suffering I’ve endured as a Canucks fan but I just can’t seem to believe that Horvat is actually turning out to be this good.

He’s literally like a poor mans Bergeron out there.

It’s like prime Kesler, but starting the prime much earlier and not such a puck hog.

If he can sustain this level of offensive production he’s going to be an All-Star caliber player for many years.

I’m extremely impressed with how he’s progressed year to year, and it looks like he’s taken another leap this season.

It's even more impressive because of who he's playing with. The more help he gets the higher his production should go.

 

[Melvin]

Schneider for Horvat remains the most important individual transaction for our rebuild by a mile, over five years later.

 

[valkynax]

Schneider for Horvat remains the most important individual transaction for our rebuild by a mile, over five years later.

I at the time was very critical of the trade.

You have no idea how happy I am to be wrong.


Horvat's progress has been rock solid, very few moments of regression, if at all. All I see is him slowly becoming more and more consistent.

Future C is his to lose, really.

 

[Intangibos]

Schneider for Horvat remains the most important individual transaction for our rebuild by a mile, over five years later.

Clearly the most important trade this franchise has made since acquiring Luongo. He's a 23 year old 2-way guy putting up Toews numbers playing with the likes of Roussel, Motte, Schaller etc.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Clearly the most important trade this franchise has made since acquiring Luongo. He's a 23 year old 2-way guy putting up Toews numbers playing with the likes of Roussel, Motte, Schaller etc.

Clearly...one good draft choice in 6 six years of drafting...and he is "THE most important ' pick..clearly ,you have been into the champagne...keep it up.

 

[clunk]

Clearly...one good draft choice in 6 six years of drafting...and he is "THE most important ' pick..clearly ,you have been into the champagne...keep it up.

He said 'most important trade', though, which is undoubtably true.