Player Discussion Bo Horvat

Discussion in 'Vancouver Canucks' started by canuckfan75, Aug 26, 2018.

  1. THE Green Man

    THE Green Man Registered User

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    Sounds like a movie, I like it.
     
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  2. Zombotron

    Zombotron CanucksAbbyFan

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    They expect one of us in the wreckage, Valtteri
  3. DonnyNucker

    DonnyNucker Registered User

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    Well Hirsh works for Sportsnet...there is an agenda. I do t doubt that beagle is well respected but I don’t believe he has taken over the locker room after 12 games. Sutter and Bo have been the main leaders for awhile.
     
  4. Dump Itch

    Dump Itch Registered User

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    If you're basing leadership on games played, Eriksson and Edler are the leaders of the room.
     
  5. PG Canuck

    PG Canuck Moderator

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    Top 20 Centers in Points (as per NHL.com), Even Strength Linemates:

    Nathan MacKinnon
    82.42% - Rantanen/Landeskog
    Always paired with this duo.

    Connor McDavid
    24.44% - Chiasson/Draisaitl
    12.54% - Caggiula/Draisaitl
    12.37% - RNH/Rattie
    11.11% RNH/Yamamoto
    As percentages drop, there is still a trend: McDavid always has RNH or Draisaitl on his wing. Always.

    Mark Scheifele
    51.08% - Ehlers/Wheeler
    26.26% - Wheeler/Connor
    4.13% - Wheeler/Laine
    Always paired with Wheeler.

    Jack Eichel
    37.22% - Skinner/Reinhart
    28.54% - Pominville/Skinner
    14.12% - Reinhart/Sheary
    One of the few C's that don't have a superstar winger attached to them for their ES play. Skinner scored 28, 37, 24 goals in the 3 seasons prior to being on Eichel's wing, so it's not as if Eichel has turned around his game into something he hasn't been.

    Brayden Point
    34.35% - Kucherov/Johnson
    24.71% - Johnson/Gourde
    12.93% - Stamkos/Gourde
    Typically has a superstar winger flanking him.

    Leon Draisaitl
    25.90% - McDavid/Chiasson
    15.31% - Chiasson/Rieder
    13.30% - McDavid/Caggiula
    Believe mostly plays wing, but still takes some draws. Been paired with McDavid for majority of his deployment anyways.

    Nicklas Backstrom
    21.95% - Ovechkin/Wilson
    21.10% - Oshie/Vrana
    13.54% - Oshie/Ovechkin
    11.00% - Oshie/Stephenson
    In total, has spent ~35.49% with Ovechkin and ~32.1% without Ovechkin.

    Sean Monahan
    68.90% - Gaudreau/Lindholm
    Always paired with this duo.

    Claude Giroux (not playing center)

    50.22% - Couturier/Konecny
    16.64% - Couturier/Voracek
    Always with Couturier/Voracek. Not even playing center either.

    Elias Lindholm (Not playing center)
    75.69% - Gaudreau/Monahan

    Sidney Crosby
    21.98% - Guentzel/Simon
    18.55% - Guentzel/Rust
    14.91% - Brassard/Guentzel
    10.95% - Guentzel/Hornqvist
    One of the few C's that don't have a superstar winger attached to them for their ES play. Nothing new to Crosby, however.

    Evgeni Malkin
    30.50% - Kessel/Hagelin
    18.00% - Kessel/Pearson
    Typically paired with Kessel, who is an elite winger.

    Elias Pettersson
    24.11% - Eriksson/Goldobin
    18.06% - Boeser/Goldobin
    14.22% - Boeser/Leivo
    9.89% - Goldobin/Virtanen
    Has had Boeser flank his winger far more than Horvat, which takes away any good winger being with Bo.

    Steven Stamkos
    30.84% - Kucherov/Miller
    19.05% - Palat/Gourde
    13.32% - Gourde/Point
    Most of the time, has either Kucherov or Point on his line.

    John Tavares

    73.20% - Marner/Hyman
    Marner has established himself as one of the more elite playmakers in the NHL and has JT on pace for a potential career year in production.

    Sebastian Aho (not playing center)
    49.40% - Teravainen/Ferland
    11.24% - Teravainen/Martinook
    I believe TT is the center, but correct me if I am wrong.

    Matt Duchene
    20.78% - Stone/Dzingel
    10.81% - Batherson/Boedker
    9.65% - Batherson/Dzingel
    8.01% - White/Boedker
    Plays good chunk of time with Stone - on that borderline of being similar to Crosby of the few C's that don't have a superstar winger attached to them for their ES play. Stone may not be a superstar per se, but he's no slouch to have as a winger.

    Logan Couture
    38.93% - Hertl-Meier
    11.95% - Hertl/Labanc
    10.07% - Hertl/Pavelski
    In same ilk of Crosby/Duchene in terms of not having a top NHL winger flanking him.

    Bo Horvat
    49.5% - Combination of Schaller/Virtanen/Granlund/Eriksson/Roussel/Gagner/Motte
    8.96% - Boeser/Baertschi
    8.17% - Goldobin/Virtanen
    6.52% - Boeser/Goldobin
    Has constantly been shuffled around to try and bolster a line/make a shutdown line, as well as the Canucks only really having Boeser as an established producing winger, who mostly plays with Pettersson.

    Dylan Larkin

    18.60% - Mantha/Helm
    13.47% - Mantha/Abdelkader
    13.33% - Abdelkader/Nyquist
    12.48% - Mantha/Nyquist
    Easily has the second worst wingers flanking him, after Horvat, in terms of the top 20 point producing centers right now.
    -
    So, Crosby/Duchene/Couture/Larkin are the other centers who don't have other superstars/top wingers attached to them. We also need to keep in mind, 13 players on this list have more powerplay points than Horvat as well.

    If we can get another solid or dare I say, elite winger for Horvat, why can't he hit 80 points? His PP production is probably average right now, and may go up in the future. Bo has wasted 50% of his ES icetime with useless garbage, and only recently has begun to have some ok wingers on his wings, and even then, they aren't much to rave about.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2018
  6. lawrence

    lawrence Registered User

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    It be sweet if we can get the other Hughes.
     
  7. Canadian Club

    Canadian Club Registered User

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    49.5% of his minutes with rotating wingers. Except for Jake, that group makes me want to puke. Can't believe Horvat has played this well with anchors strapped to him. Depth my a**
     
  8. ErrantShepherd

    ErrantShepherd Nostalgic despite the Bad

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    That Bieksa interview was highly entertaining. Still good for a good quote.

    Like hearing about how Horvat just kept applying himself to get better and better after that first season. That drive to succeed and improve is infectious.
     
  9. Bertuzzzi44

    Bertuzzzi44 Registered User

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    Capitals players stated the room is not the same without Beagle and his presence is missed. Canucks have also killed 13 straight penalties and the PK is night and day with Beagle in the lineup. There are a lot of good leaders in the room: Sutter, Beagle, Tanev, Edler but without any doubt whatsoever this is Bo’s team.
     
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  10. DonnyNucker

    DonnyNucker Registered User

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    I’m not criticizing Beagle...just stating the obvious. It’s Bo and Sutters room and it has been for awhile. Tanev and Edler are mutes...I guess they are sort of silent mentors. The voices in the room are Sutter and Bo (and now beagle I guess )
     
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  11. mathonwy

    mathonwy #JimboMustGo

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  12. bandwagonesque

    bandwagonesque Registered User

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    Hirsch talks to the players every day and has worked with them for years. His job depends on his relationship with them to some extent. He can't just make stuff up, nor does he have a history of doing so.
     
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  13. ErrantShepherd

    ErrantShepherd Nostalgic despite the Bad

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    So constantly seeing about prospects with poor skating makes me think back to how Bo's one major knock against was apparently his skating ability...

    I know he had a special skating coach and all... but how exactly did he improve that? Any good articles or info anyone knows of? Most seem pretty vague...

    It would be great if we could somehow improve the skating for all our young players in the same way, but I'm wondering what in particular it is they worked on and if that's even replicable?
     
  14. Melvin

    Melvin But muh prospect pool! Sponsor

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  15. Billy Kvcmu

    Billy Kvcmu Registered User

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    I think we are fooled by Bo into thinking that skating is easier to improve than it actually is.
    Most prospects with skating issue don’t improve massively like Bo did.
     
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  16. Jack Burton

    Jack Burton Pro Tank Since 13

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    Sven is back
     
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  17. PG Canuck

    PG Canuck Moderator

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    If skating were as easy to improve as Horvat made it seem, every single NHL'er would be improving it. Oddly, it seems to work for some and others it doesn't. There is a lot involved in improving, as well as staying away from the bad habits that plagued a player before.
     
  18. F A N

    F A N Registered User

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    According to Ryan Johnson it could be something as simple as not planting your feet.
     
  19. polarbearcub

    polarbearcub Registered User

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    Bo has hit a bit of a bumpy patch recently.
     
  20. 6oeser

    6oeser Registered User

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    He's strapped to the likes of Roussel and Eriksson. Put him with Sven and Jake
     
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  21. Intangibos

    Intangibos High-End Intangibos

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    Genetics play a big role. Some players work their asses off and are fringe players, then you have guys with all the talent in the world not put the effort in, and then you have guys who have talent and work but don't have the right coaching or opportunities. Bure is an example of a kid who had the right coaching when he was young to unlock his potential speed.

    Bo just happened to have untapped potential for skating which I would have to assume is pretty rare in today's game. There is likely some room for improvement across the NHL though, just nowhere near Horvat's insane trajectory.

    I think with guys like Horvat he is so good at so many other things that inefficient skating is overlooked, even though it really shouldn't be. I'm honestly really disappointed with so much NHL management, coaching and scouting. Sure hindsight is 20/20 and we're all just armchair GMs/coaches/scouts here, but a scout should have been able to see Horvat's stride and see a giant neon sign flashing "untapped potential". Some people just won't be fast skaters, but when a skating coach can look at Horvat's stride and say that is ridiculously inefficient you have to wonder why scouts can't pick up on that as something that has nothing to do with talent and can be coached out of him.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2019
  22. PuckMunchkin

    PuckMunchkin Registered User

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    I've become increasingly cynical of most scouts ability to actually do anything of use. I asked a WC level ref on how people become scouts (his brother is one) he said its pretty much 100% about knowing the right people.
     
  23. Intangibos

    Intangibos High-End Intangibos

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    I'm interested in pro scouting but it's difficult to really gauge your results to some extent as well as the value of players. I guess it wouldn't be that bad to make lists of players you expect to break out or vets you think could be acquired cheap and see if they work out. I would like to get into amateur scouting but there are a number of issues. It costs money to stream, you can't focus on certainly players on a stream like you can live, you probably don't have access to practices (though I don't know if regular scouts do), and I'm working on some other things that require a lot of focus so it would be quite the gamble for something I've shown no ability to do.

    In terms of breaking in a close family friend's son who was also my sister's best friend growing up is one of the top executives for Aquilini's construction business. Actually not sure how he got the job as he wasn't the best student IIRC but he's a hard worker and has seemingly done quite a good job. So I could maybe have an in there, but I really hate asking people for favors. If I did a poor job it would reflect real poorly on him and I don't like that responsibility.

    What I did think of as a possibly viable idea was to just make your own scouting lists and get them notarized with the date so you could send them in as essentially a resume to a number of teams. If you're actually good at it one team might take notice and give you a shot, even just as an unpaid intern.



    Story Time:

    My father worked at the Hotel Vancouver for decades. He has all kinds of stories on celebrities, hockey players, Vancouver "big shots", and even gangsters. I could tell you a story or two about Linden, Bure, Gino, Keenan, Burke, which of those and other players around the league are good guys and which ones are *******s etc.

    One of my favorite stories was the time one of the referees my dad was friendly with gave him a bunch of tickets to the finals in '94. Like a bunch of them and told him to just give them to his friends or whatever. Prime centre ice tickets. Back then hockey wasn't as big a deal and literally none of their friends had much interest in going. They decided they would take 4 seats for themselves to have some extra room and an air gap between anyone else and sell the rest so they aren't sitting in the middle of like 10 empty seats and scalp the rest. They thought it wasn't a big deal if they sold them, but thought the referee might be offended or something if they used his good will to make a profit rather than giving them to friends as he wouldn't know they couldn't give them away and who knows when my dad would see him again. Then the news crews showed up and said "They're selling tickets!" and rushed over to them while my parents covered up and fled to their car to get away.

    Turns out they were the NHL's executive tickets where guys like Bettman would be sitting that just weren't being used as they weren't attending. I'll always be proud of my dad for scalping Bettman's tickets :laugh:. I wonder what his reaction would have been if he showed up and there were a bunch of strangers who say they bought the tickets from a scalper sitting in his seats :laugh:

    ANYWAY
    He told me that Nonis got his job by finding Burke at the hotel (I think) one day and pretty much asking him how he can get into the business, can he intern etc. Burke told him to make a schedule of Canucks' air travel for the year and didn't really expect much of it, just some random guy who was just asking for a job, but then the mad man Nonis actually did it and did a good job and found himself working for Burke. Impressed that Burke kept his word and took a chance on him even if Nonis never became a very good NHL executive, just like I'm impressed Aquilini took a chance of that family friend.

    That one isn't first hand though, it's not like he was standing right there, so it's just what he heard and is liable to be wrong. I'm not even sure where he heard it, but given his interactions over the years with all kinds of people I trust him on it.

    Also one time Burke ran a stop sign on my mom at Halifax and either Kensington or Sperling while she was pregnant with me. I came very not so close to being killed by Burke one fateful day in 1990! but not really I'm obviously just being dramatic
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2019
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  24. JAK

    JAK Registered User

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    Back on topic though...

    Bo now has an opportunity to step up in the offensive direction.

    When Sutter and Beagle went down, he had to shoulder the defensive side, but still put up points. Now with Pettersson sidelined, Bo is expected to carry the offense.

    Bo deserves way more recognition for being THE GUY, and the C is going to be on his chest come next season, no doubt.
     
  25. Neddam ot Sehguh

    Neddam ot Sehguh Nosskire ot Dnulnarg W

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    All these shutouts lately as Bo goes thru a cold streak. Losing Peetey for 1.5 games doesnt help but we went 3-3 without him earlier in the year. I think Horvats ups and downs plays a HUGE role on this teams play/standings

    Is Bo hurt or just a regular cold streak?
     

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