Player Discussion Bo Horvat

[THE Green Man]

I have a dream...

Draft day, Vancouver. Benning and his entourage are walking up to the stage to select their first round pick. Horvat has been invited to join them. Just a little feel good PR as it is in Vancouver and in front of his hometown fans. Benning and co, reach the podium and Benning waits a moment for the crowd noise to die down before speaking...

"Welcome to the best fans in the NHL blah blah blah....."

"Thank you Gary Bettman and the NHL yada yada yada..."

"Congratulations to our neighbours south of us in Seattle who were awarded the NHL's 32nd franchise. We look forward to a long and healthy rivalry derp derp derp..."

and then goes on to say:

"Now without anymore delay..to announce our first pick of the 2019 entry draft.. I am very proud to present..... the 14th Captain of your Vancouver Canucks... BO HORVAT!!!" as he hands him a #53 sweater with the "C" on it that one of the entourage was concealing. The crowd goes mental and blows the roof off of Rogers arena. Horvat is as shocked as anyone. Bo then puts on his new sweater and receives one of the longest standing ovations in Canucks history.









Horvat then announces Hughes as our very first first overall pick ever.... getting greedy?

Sounds like a movie, I like it.

 

[Zombotron]

 

[DonnyNucker]

What possible agenda would Hirsh have to say Beagle is one of the biggest leaders on the team.

He has a stanley cup ring. Its not that hard to believe that the young guys look up to him.

Also it was reported at training camp that Beagle was one of the most fittest and was destryoing records that the Sedins held for years.

Well Hirsh works for Sportsnet...there is an agenda. I do t doubt that beagle is well respected but I don’t believe he has taken over the locker room after 12 games. Sutter and Bo have been the main leaders for awhile.

 

[Dump Itch]

Hirsh is an idiot. Beagle has played 12 games for the franchise. Sutter and Bo are the leaders.

If you're basing leadership on games played, Eriksson and Edler are the leaders of the room.

 

[PG Canuck]

Top 20 Centers in Points (as per NHL.com), Even Strength Linemates:

Nathan MacKinnon
82.42% - Rantanen/Landeskog
Always paired with this duo.

Connor McDavid
24.44% - Chiasson/Draisaitl
12.54% - Caggiula/Draisaitl
12.37% - RNH/Rattie
11.11% RNH/Yamamoto
As percentages drop, there is still a trend: McDavid always has RNH or Draisaitl on his wing. Always.

Mark Scheifele
51.08% - Ehlers/Wheeler
26.26% - Wheeler/Connor
4.13% - Wheeler/Laine
Always paired with Wheeler.

Jack Eichel
37.22% - Skinner/Reinhart
28.54% - Pominville/Skinner
14.12% - Reinhart/Sheary
One of the few C's that don't have a superstar winger attached to them for their ES play. Skinner scored 28, 37, 24 goals in the 3 seasons prior to being on Eichel's wing, so it's not as if Eichel has turned around his game into something he hasn't been.

Brayden Point
34.35% - Kucherov/Johnson
24.71% - Johnson/Gourde
12.93% - Stamkos/Gourde
Typically has a superstar winger flanking him.

Leon Draisaitl
25.90% - McDavid/Chiasson
15.31% - Chiasson/Rieder
13.30% - McDavid/Caggiula
Believe mostly plays wing, but still takes some draws. Been paired with McDavid for majority of his deployment anyways.

Nicklas Backstrom
21.95% - Ovechkin/Wilson
21.10% - Oshie/Vrana
13.54% - Oshie/Ovechkin
11.00% - Oshie/Stephenson
In total, has spent ~35.49% with Ovechkin and ~32.1% without Ovechkin.

Sean Monahan
68.90% - Gaudreau/Lindholm
Always paired with this duo.

Claude Giroux (not playing center)
50.22% - Couturier/Konecny
16.64% - Couturier/Voracek
Always with Couturier/Voracek. Not even playing center either.

Elias Lindholm (Not playing center)
75.69% - Gaudreau/Monahan

Sidney Crosby
21.98% - Guentzel/Simon
18.55% - Guentzel/Rust
14.91% - Brassard/Guentzel
10.95% - Guentzel/Hornqvist
One of the few C's that don't have a superstar winger attached to them for their ES play. Nothing new to Crosby, however.

Evgeni Malkin
30.50% - Kessel/Hagelin
18.00% - Kessel/Pearson
Typically paired with Kessel, who is an elite winger.

Elias Pettersson
24.11% - Eriksson/Goldobin
18.06% - Boeser/Goldobin
14.22% - Boeser/Leivo
9.89% - Goldobin/Virtanen
Has had Boeser flank his winger far more than Horvat, which takes away any good winger being with Bo.

Steven Stamkos
30.84% - Kucherov/Miller
19.05% - Palat/Gourde
13.32% - Gourde/Point
Most of the time, has either Kucherov or Point on his line.

John Tavares
73.20% - Marner/Hyman
Marner has established himself as one of the more elite playmakers in the NHL and has JT on pace for a potential career year in production.

Sebastian Aho (not playing center)
49.40% - Teravainen/Ferland
11.24% - Teravainen/Martinook
I believe TT is the center, but correct me if I am wrong.

Matt Duchene
20.78% - Stone/Dzingel
10.81% - Batherson/Boedker
9.65% - Batherson/Dzingel
8.01% - White/Boedker
Plays good chunk of time with Stone - on that borderline of being similar to Crosby of the few C's that don't have a superstar winger attached to them for their ES play. Stone may not be a superstar per se, but he's no slouch to have as a winger.

Logan Couture
38.93% - Hertl-Meier
11.95% - Hertl/Labanc
10.07% - Hertl/Pavelski
In same ilk of Crosby/Duchene in terms of not having a top NHL winger flanking him.

Bo Horvat
49.5% - Combination of Schaller/Virtanen/Granlund/Eriksson/Roussel/Gagner/Motte
8.96% - Boeser/Baertschi
8.17% - Goldobin/Virtanen
6.52% - Boeser/Goldobin
Has constantly been shuffled around to try and bolster a line/make a shutdown line, as well as the Canucks only really having Boeser as an established producing winger, who mostly plays with Pettersson.

Dylan Larkin
18.60% - Mantha/Helm
13.47% - Mantha/Abdelkader
13.33% - Abdelkader/Nyquist
12.48% - Mantha/Nyquist
Easily has the second worst wingers flanking him, after Horvat, in terms of the top 20 point producing centers right now.
-
So, Crosby/Duchene/Couture/Larkin are the other centers who don't have other superstars/top wingers attached to them. We also need to keep in mind, 13 players on this list have more powerplay points than Horvat as well.

If we can get another solid or dare I say, elite winger for Horvat, why can't he hit 80 points? His PP production is probably average right now, and may go up in the future. Bo has wasted 50% of his ES icetime with useless garbage, and only recently has begun to have some ok wingers on his wings, and even then, they aren't much to rave about.

 

[lawrence]

I have a dream...

Draft day, Vancouver. Benning and his entourage are walking up to the stage to select their first round pick. Horvat has been invited to join them. Just a little feel good PR as it is in Vancouver and in front of his hometown fans. Benning and co, reach the podium and Benning waits a moment for the crowd noise to die down before speaking...

"Welcome to the best fans in the NHL blah blah blah....."

"Thank you Gary Bettman and the NHL yada yada yada..."

"Congratulations to our neighbours south of us in Seattle who were awarded the NHL's 32nd franchise. We look forward to a long and healthy rivalry derp derp derp..."

and then goes on to say:

"Now without anymore delay..to announce our first pick of the 2019 entry draft.. I am very proud to present..... the 14th Captain of your Vancouver Canucks... BO HORVAT!!!" as he hands him a #53 sweater with the "C" on it that one of the entourage was concealing. The crowd goes mental and blows the roof off of Rogers arena. Horvat is as shocked as anyone. Bo then puts on his new sweater and receives one of the longest standing ovations in Canucks history.









Horvat then announces Hughes as our very first first overall pick ever.... getting greedy?

It be sweet if we can get the other Hughes.

 

[Shattered Dreams]

49.5% of his minutes with rotating wingers. Except for Jake, that group makes me want to puke. Can't believe Horvat has played this well with anchors strapped to him. Depth my a**

 

[ErrantShepherd]

That Bieksa interview was highly entertaining. Still good for a good quote.

Like hearing about how Horvat just kept applying himself to get better and better after that first season. That drive to succeed and improve is infectious.

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

Well Hirsh works for Sportsnet...there is an agenda. I do t doubt that beagle is well respected but I don’t believe he has taken over the locker room after 12 games. Sutter and Bo have been the main leaders for awhile.

Capitals players stated the room is not the same without Beagle and his presence is missed. Canucks have also killed 13 straight penalties and the PK is night and day with Beagle in the lineup. There are a lot of good leaders in the room: Sutter, Beagle, Tanev, Edler but without any doubt whatsoever this is Bo’s team.

 

[DonnyNucker]

Capitals players stated the room is not the same without Beagle and his presence is missed. Canucks have also killed 13 straight penalties and the PK is night and day with Beagle in the lineup. There are a lot of good leaders in the room: Sutter, Beagle, Tanev, Edler but without any doubt whatsoever this is Bo’s team.

I’m not criticizing Beagle...just stating the obvious. It’s Bo and Sutters room and it has been for awhile. Tanev and Edler are mutes...I guess they are sort of silent mentors. The voices in the room are Sutter and Bo (and now beagle I guess )

 

[mathonwy]

 

[bandwagonesque]

Hirsh is an idiot. Beagle has played 12 games for the franchise. Sutter and Bo are the leaders.

Hirsch talks to the players every day and has worked with them for years. His job depends on his relationship with them to some extent. He can't just make stuff up, nor does he have a history of doing so.

 

[ErrantShepherd]

So constantly seeing about prospects with poor skating makes me think back to how Bo's one major knock against was apparently his skating ability...

I know he had a special skating coach and all... but how exactly did he improve that? Any good articles or info anyone knows of? Most seem pretty vague...

It would be great if we could somehow improve the skating for all our young players in the same way, but I'm wondering what in particular it is they worked on and if that's even replicable?

 

[Melvin]

So constantly seeing about prospects with poor skating makes me think back to how Bo's one major knock against was apparently his skating ability...

I know he had a special skating coach and all... but how exactly did he improve that? Any good articles or info anyone knows of? Most seem pretty vague...

It would be great if we could somehow improve the skating for all our young players in the same way, but I'm wondering what in particular it is they worked on and if that's even replicable?

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

So constantly seeing about prospects with poor skating makes me think back to how Bo's one major knock against was apparently his skating ability...

I know he had a special skating coach and all... but how exactly did he improve that? Any good articles or info anyone knows of? Most seem pretty vague...

It would be great if we could somehow improve the skating for all our young players in the same way, but I'm wondering what in particular it is they worked on and if that's even replicable?

I think we are fooled by Bo into thinking that skating is easier to improve than it actually is.
Most prospects with skating issue don’t improve massively like Bo did.

 

[Jack Burton]

Sven is back

 

[PG Canuck]

If skating were as easy to improve as Horvat made it seem, every single NHL'er would be improving it. Oddly, it seems to work for some and others it doesn't. There is a lot involved in improving, as well as staying away from the bad habits that plagued a player before.

 

[F A N]

According to Ryan Johnson it could be something as simple as not planting your feet.

 

[polarbearcub]

Bo has hit a bit of a bumpy patch recently.

 

[wonton15]

Bo has hit a bit of a bumpy patch recently.

He's strapped to the likes of Roussel and Eriksson. Put him with Sven and Jake

 

[Intangibos]

If skating were as easy to improve as Horvat made it seem, every single NHL'er would be improving it. Oddly, it seems to work for some and others it doesn't. There is a lot involved in improving, as well as staying away from the bad habits that plagued a player before.

Genetics play a big role. Some players work their asses off and are fringe players, then you have guys with all the talent in the world not put the effort in, and then you have guys who have talent and work but don't have the right coaching or opportunities. Bure is an example of a kid who had the right coaching when he was young to unlock his potential speed.

Bo just happened to have untapped potential for skating which I would have to assume is pretty rare in today's game. There is likely some room for improvement across the NHL though, just nowhere near Horvat's insane trajectory.

I think with guys like Horvat he is so good at so many other things that inefficient skating is overlooked, even though it really shouldn't be. I'm honestly really disappointed with so much NHL management, coaching and scouting. Sure hindsight is 20/20 and we're all just armchair GMs/coaches/scouts here, but a scout should have been able to see Horvat's stride and see a giant neon sign flashing "untapped potential". Some people just won't be fast skaters, but when a skating coach can look at Horvat's stride and say that is ridiculously inefficient you have to wonder why scouts can't pick up on that as something that has nothing to do with talent and can be coached out of him.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Genetics play a big role. Some players work their asses off and are fringe players, then you have guys with all the talent in the world not put the effort in, and then you have guys who have talent and work but don't have the right coaching or opportunities. Bure is an example of a kid who had the right coaching when he was young to unlock his potential speed.

Bo just happened to have untapped potential for skating which I would have to assume is pretty rare in today's game. There is likely some room for improvement across the NHL though, just nowhere near Horvat's insane trajectory.

I think with guys like Horvat he is so good at so many other things that inefficient skating is overlooked, even though it really shouldn't be. I'm honestly really disappointed with so much NHL management, coaching and scouting. Sure hindsight is 20/20 and we're all just armchair GMs/coaches/scouts here, but a scout should have been able to see Horvat's stride and see a giant neon sign flashing "untapped potential". Some people just won't be fast skaters, but when a skating coach can look at Horvat's stride and say that is ridiculously inefficient you have to wonder why scouts can't pick up on that as something that has nothing to do with talent and can be coached out of him.

I've become increasingly cynical of most scouts ability to actually do anything of use. I asked a WC level ref on how people become scouts (his brother is one) he said its pretty much 100% about knowing the right people.

 

[Intangibos]

I've become increasingly cynical of most scouts ability to actually do anything of use. I asked a WC level ref on how people become scouts (his brother is one) he said its pretty much 100% about knowing the right people.

I'm interested in pro scouting but it's difficult to really gauge your results to some extent as well as the value of players. I guess it wouldn't be that bad to make lists of players you expect to break out or vets you think could be acquired cheap and see if they work out. I would like to get into amateur scouting but there are a number of issues. It costs money to stream, you can't focus on certainly players on a stream like you can live, you probably don't have access to practices (though I don't know if regular scouts do), and I'm working on some other things that require a lot of focus so it would be quite the gamble for something I've shown no ability to do.

In terms of breaking in a close family friend's son who was also my sister's best friend growing up is one of the top executives for Aquilini's construction business. Actually not sure how he got the job as he wasn't the best student IIRC but he's a hard worker and has seemingly done quite a good job. So I could maybe have an in there, but I really hate asking people for favors. If I did a poor job it would reflect real poorly on him and I don't like that responsibility.

What I did think of as a possibly viable idea was to just make your own scouting lists and get them notarized with the date so you could send them in as essentially a resume to a number of teams. If you're actually good at it one team might take notice and give you a shot, even just as an unpaid intern.



Story Time:

My father worked at the Hotel Vancouver for decades. He has all kinds of stories on celebrities, hockey players, Vancouver "big shots", and even gangsters. I could tell you a story or two about Linden, Bure, Gino, Keenan, Burke, which of those and other players around the league are good guys and which ones are assholes etc.

One of my favorite stories was the time one of the referees my dad was friendly with gave him a bunch of tickets to the finals in '94. Like a bunch of them and told him to just give them to his friends or whatever. Prime centre ice tickets. Back then hockey wasn't as big a deal and literally none of their friends had much interest in going. They decided they would take 4 seats for themselves to have some extra room and an air gap between anyone else and sell the rest so they aren't sitting in the middle of like 10 empty seats and scalp the rest. They thought it wasn't a big deal if they sold them, but thought the referee might be offended or something if they used his good will to make a profit rather than giving them to friends as he wouldn't know they couldn't give them away and who knows when my dad would see him again. Then the news crews showed up and said "They're selling tickets!" and rushed over to them while my parents covered up and fled to their car to get away.

Turns out they were the NHL's executive tickets where guys like Bettman would be sitting that just weren't being used as they weren't attending. I'll always be proud of my dad for scalping Bettman's tickets . I wonder what his reaction would have been if he showed up and there were a bunch of strangers who say they bought the tickets from a scalper sitting in his seats

ANYWAY
He told me that Nonis got his job by finding Burke at the hotel (I think) one day and pretty much asking him how he can get into the business, can he intern etc. Burke told him to make a schedule of Canucks' air travel for the year and didn't really expect much of it, just some random guy who was just asking for a job, but then the mad man Nonis actually did it and did a good job and found himself working for Burke. Impressed that Burke kept his word and took a chance on him even if Nonis never became a very good NHL executive, just like I'm impressed Aquilini took a chance of that family friend.

That one isn't first hand though, it's not like he was standing right there, so it's just what he heard and is liable to be wrong. I'm not even sure where he heard it, but given his interactions over the years with all kinds of people I trust him on it.

Also one time Burke ran a stop sign on my mom at Halifax and either Kensington or Sperling while she was pregnant with me. I came very not so close to being killed by Burke one fateful day in 1990! but not really I'm obviously just being dramatic

 

[JAK]

Back on topic though...

Bo now has an opportunity to step up in the offensive direction.

When Sutter and Beagle went down, he had to shoulder the defensive side, but still put up points. Now with Pettersson sidelined, Bo is expected to carry the offense.

Bo deserves way more recognition for being THE GUY, and the C is going to be on his chest come next season, no doubt.

 

[M2Beezy]

All these shutouts lately as Bo goes thru a cold streak. Losing Peetey for 1.5 games doesnt help but we went 3-3 without him earlier in the year. I think Horvats ups and downs plays a HUGE role on this teams play/standings

Is Bo hurt or just a regular cold streak?