TV: Big Brother 20, Part 2 - We've got the numbers

[Rodgerwilco]

Well, I would like to begin by saying it was a pleasure getting to know all of you and talk about the intricacies of this wonderful game with everyone who participates in this thread.

My girlfriend introduced me to this game this year, and it was my first season of Big Brother watching as it ran. Since BB20 began I've watched 3 old seasons (4, 10, and 17) as well as countless hours of live feeds. I'm going to be watching every season of Big Brother via CBS All-Access. I hope to have them all finished by BB21.

I got so hyped on this game this season, that I will actually be putting in an audition tape for next season when casting starts.

I'm glad I had the opportunity to meet and interact with you all and I look forward to doing the same next summer. Now I guess it's time to change my title on here... lol.

 

[Rodgerwilco]

Now that I've said my pleasantries, onto the game talk:

Wow, Tyler got absolutely robbed. His jury management wasn't the best, but he played the best overall game by far. He started playing since Day 1 and was making big moves all season. He always knew what was happening in the house, he never got blind-sided. Not only did he KNOW what was going on, but he orchestrated most of it. I think the biggest mistake he made in the game was screwing over Sam, he could have dragged her to F3 and threw the HOH to Kaycee or Sam so that he could have avoided that final blood on his hands. He had his fingers in too many cookie jars and had to end up screwing SOMEONE over in the process. I think part of Tyler's problem toward the end of the game was his showmance with Angela as well, she put a bit of a target on his back and he also acted sort of rudely (the whole "one/two step ahead" thing was stupid. They should have just explained to Brett what happened without the stupid snarky remarks. Another fatal flaw that he made was leaking his Power App to the jury house too early. Had he waited until finale night to do it then he could have won a jury vote or 2 just by the shear fact that he made it that far without anyone knowing.

I think that the Jury was just too damn bitter. I understand that it's a huge dynamic of the game, but the winners would be much more deserving winners if the voting was done a different way. Perhaps, a jury pool of past BB legends who would vote impartially and would look at the best game players, not making emotional decisions. Not that I'm saying they should implement this, but it's annoying to see bitter jury members not give the win to the best overall player.

 

[Novak Djokovic]

Meh, I wouldn't even call this jury bitter. They just outright couldn't appreciate what happened in the house, which is easier to say watching from here. Bitter jury is what BB14 was all about. I still get annoyed when I remember Ian won over Dan.

 

[M.C.G. 31]

It’s hard to convince the house of that when you’re only given 45 seconds to explain yourself and then the jury gets 10 seconds to decide they’re not pissed off before having to vote.

A good assignment is to go back and watch Will’s speech where he turned it all back on the jury, made them all upset, and then got handed a check.

Tyler and Angela I’m pretty confident will go to the Amazing Race.

that's what happens when dumb ass production produces the worst finale episode in a long ass time (maybe ever?) and rushing everything just to make time for an idiot to propose marriage to someone he lived with for 20 days and watched on TV for 70.

 

[GKJ]

Meh, I wouldn't even call this jury bitter. They just outright couldn't appreciate what happened in the house, which is easier to say watching from here. Bitter jury is what BB14 was all about. I still get annoyed when I remember Ian won over Dan.

The kicker with Ian is that they knew he didn’t start the quack pack

 

[Cor]

that's what happens when dumb ass production produces the worst finale episode in a long ass time (maybe ever?) and rushing everything just to make time for an idiot to propose marriage to someone he lived with for 20 days and watched on TV for 70.

Seriously.

The jury segment is my favorite part (the one with Dr Will) and I had to go back because I thought I missed part of it. Was just super short. Plus the question and answer was like, ask the question, say a sentence and then Julie had to cut them off. You could tell Tyler was frustrated with it.

Even the vote reveal, Julie wasn't revealing them like usual, she was pulling the keys out like they were tissues in a box.

I get it, Swaggy C is one of those people who came on the show to try and put himself in the spotlight and open opportunities, but holy moly, I don't get why CBS gave him that time. He was in the house for what? A couple weeks? He didn't really impact the show. Plus, Baleigh is like the most unlikeable person in that house, and no one cares about her marrying someone who she lived with for 20 days lmao.

It's something that is pretty obvious to fail. Like past houseguests have spoken before how relationships change a lot when you get on the outside and you learn people are different from who they really are, because everyone in the house is faking their personality to some extent.

So while the Jeff/Jordan, Rachel/Brenden, Nicole/Victor, Jess/Cody stuff is still kinda dumb, at least they had their relationships last outside of the house prior to the engagments and marriages.

I was disappointed. I thought they were rushing that stuff, because the time was running long, but then it turned out it was all for that.

Just doesn't make sense for me. At least Big Brother 21 is confirmed, and it sounds like Julie will be back after all. That was literally the best part of the finale for me

 

[dahrougem2]

This 100% was a bitter jury. Sam, Scottie, Bayleigh, and Rockstar were all bitter.

Sam was pissed at Tyler from the moment she got evicted.

Scottie was also pissed at Tyler the moment he got evicted even though the dude is a complete idiot and didn't realize all season that Tyler was in a different alliance.

Bayleigh was STILL bitter over her blow up with Tyler, and she still believes that she was in the right and he was in the wrong (hence her smug attitude when he apologized).

Rockstar was bitter over how much Tyler controlled this game. She said it herself, she thought J.C. played the best game. Well, if you thought J.C played the best game due to how controlling/manipulative he was, then why wouldn't you vote for Tyler over Kaycee? Surely you don't think Kaycee was doing that? Just another bitter juror.

Nothing against Kaycee, she won 8 competitions but she did not deserve to win this game over Tyler. Over J.C.? Absolutely. But not over Tyler.

 

[MAHJ71]

Sounds like I did the right thing by skipping the finale.

 

[dahrougem2]

Sounds like I did the right thing by skipping the finale.

Pretty much. It's getting to the point with Big Brother that whoever the better player in F2 is, likely is going to lose to the other person due to bitter juries. These juries are ruining the show.

Bayleigh, Rockstar, and Scottie all made a pact in jury not to vote for Tyler for **** sakes.

 

[MAHJ71]

Pretty much. It's getting to the point with Big Brother that whoever the better player in F2 is, likely is going to lose to the other person due to bitter juries. These juries are ruining the show.

Bayleigh, Rockstar, and Scottie all made a pact in jury not to vote for Tyler for **** sakes.

Ironically I feel like both Survivor and BB have started to go that way.. finding myself rarely agreeing with who ends up winning.

 

[Disclose]

ive always hated the what else did you do, besides winning competitions?
i mean it was impossible to get rid of kaycee cuz she always had the veto in the last half of the game.

right person won, in my opinion

 

[Cor]

Saw something today that I found interesting as a bit of a solution.

Instead of a jury of that seasons players deciding the winner, a jury of past players get brought in to determine the winner between the final 2 houseguests. Can be anywhere from 5 to 9 former players, ideally known for their gameplay.

 

[dahrougem2]

ive always hated the what else did you do, besides winning competitions?
i mean it was impossible to get rid of kaycee cuz she always had the veto in the last half of the game.

right person won, in my opinion

Kaycee won 8 competitions, Tyler won 6 (7 if you include him winning the Power App). Her domination of competitions was over everyone EXCEPT for Tyler. Given what he did socially all season, his game was far superior to her game.

 

[Peasy]

I wonder if Vanessa would have won her season if she made it to the end. She played a pretty cut throat game.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Kaycee won 8 competitions, Tyler won 6 (7 if you include him winning the Power App). Her domination of competitions was over everyone EXCEPT for Tyler. Given what he did socially all season, his game was far superior to her game.

7 of those 8 wins from Kaycee came in the last 12 comps. She was quite easily the better player in every aspect. Even if you think the worst of her, she didn't get blood on her hands. She let others do the dirty work and made sure things went as they wanted it to go. In that same time frame when Kaycee won those 7 comps, Tyler won 2. When the pressure got higher as the numbers dwindled, Kaycee performed and Tyler wasn't even second best in that period. Angela was. And no the power app doesn't count. It's a popularity contest and not anything that they actually earned through their actions or influence on the game.

There's an argument to be made that Kaycee's game was far superior to Tyler because she wasn't as involved and didn't piss people off on their way out of the house. That matters in this game. She was the enforcer and Tyler couldn't beat her at anything when it counted. Tyler started out strong but finished poorly both competition-wise and socially.

 

[TNT87]

We're going to see Baileigh and Swaggy C on every season now aren't we? I never thought I would say this but I rather see Rachel instead.

 

[Cor]

I was fine with any of the final 3 winning. I thought Tyler should of won, but Kaycee was a beast.

 

[BlackStar]

These houseguests are so bitter they never would have voted for Will or Dan to win either. Tyler is one of the top 5 players of all time, in my opinion. And he got robbed.

Kaycee ws the second most deserving, so it's not too much of a travesty. But these bitter houseguests tick me off.

 

[dahrougem2]

7 of those 8 wins from Kaycee came in the last 12 comps. She was quite easily the better player in every aspect. Even if you think the worst of her, she didn't get blood on her hands. She let others do the dirty work and made sure things went as they wanted it to go. In that same time frame when Kaycee won those 7 comps, Tyler won 2. When the pressure got higher as the numbers dwindled, Kaycee performed and Tyler wasn't even second best in that period. Angela was. And no the power app doesn't count. It's a popularity contest and not anything that they actually earned through their actions or influence on the game.

There's an argument to be made that Kaycee's game was far superior to Tyler because she wasn't as involved and didn't piss people off on their way out of the house. That matters in this game. She was the enforcer and Tyler couldn't beat her at anything when it counted. Tyler started out strong but finished poorly both competition-wise and socially.

I still don't understand when the "getting blood on your hands" argument became a negative argument. This is a game where the aim is to get rid of people and survive until the end. How can you be considered a better overall player if you literally did none of that, and just let your teammates do all of the work? Like, Kaycee wasn't even making decisions. It was Tyler and Angela doing the dirty work, and then consulting with Brett/Kaycee to tell them what was happening. On a social, strategic level it went Tyler --> Angela --> Brett --> Kaycee in their alliance.

Like I said, Kaycee was a competition beast but so was Tyler. This game isn't judged on what you did in the second half, it's about what you did overall. Tyler was actually technically only 1 competition win behind Kaycee because in Week 6, he won the Veto but chose to give it to Angela and take the trip to Hawaii instead.

There is no way in hell Kaycee's overall game was better than Tyler's. The rightful winner got robbed, just like in BB14, BB18 and BB19. Bitter juries are ruining this game.

 

[Canada4Gold]

Saw something today that I found interesting as a bit of a solution.

Instead of a jury of that seasons players deciding the winner, a jury of past players get brought in to determine the winner between the final 2 houseguests. Can be anywhere from 5 to 9 former players, ideally known for their gameplay.

I wouldn't even mind if they took the "Jury"(players 3 through 11) from the prior season and let them vote on the current one. That way, the people who are normally on the jury still do get a vote for who wins, it's just a vote in the next season, when they're not emotionally attached to the players who screwed them over, and are mostly informed on what happened throughout the season and not have to get everything explained to them in 30 seconds before Julie cuts them off. Though that would require everyone from the prior season being available to come to LA to vote a year after their seasons is over, but maybe you keep going back on the prior seasons list if you can't get a couple houseguest, of have alternates from past houseguests who are available to vote if they can't get certain prior seasons players.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

7 of those 8 wins from Kaycee came in the last 12 comps. She was quite easily the better player in every aspect. Even if you think the worst of her, she didn't get blood on her hands. She let others do the dirty work and made sure things went as they wanted it to go. In that same time frame when Kaycee won those 7 comps, Tyler won 2. When the pressure got higher as the numbers dwindled, Kaycee performed and Tyler wasn't even second best in that period. Angela was. And no the power app doesn't count. It's a popularity contest and not anything that they actually earned through their actions or influence on the game.

There's an argument to be made that Kaycee's game was far superior to Tyler because she wasn't as involved and didn't piss people off on their way out of the house. That matters in this game. She was the enforcer and Tyler couldn't beat her at anything when it counted. Tyler started out strong but finished poorly both competition-wise and socially.

I don't disagree in the sense that I am trying to say that KC didn't deserve it....but did you just actually say she was quite easily a better player then Tyler in every aspect in a non-ironic way? Like I said earlier I think whatever you want to call it jury management, getting blood on your hands, it is the biggest cop out for the thin skinned little children that have been playing the game. If your only argument for Kaycee playing a better game is that she won 2 more competitions and didn't twist up anybodies panties by actually making moves....I am sorry that isn't good enough for me. Maybe my expectations for the game are to high and I need to stick with Survivor though . I mean if even the fans are starting to buy into the blood on the hands B.S it might have just jumped the shark.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I don't disagree in the sense that I am trying to say that KC didn't deserve it....but did you just actually say she was quite easily a better player then Tyler in every aspect in a non-ironic way? Like I said earlier I think whatever you want to call it jury management, getting blood on your hands, it is the biggest cop out for the thin skinned little children that have been playing the game. If your only argument for Kaycee playing a better game is that she won 2 more competitions and didn't twist up anybodies panties by actually making moves....I am sorry that isn't good enough for me. Maybe my expectations for the game are to high and I need to stick with Survivor though . I mean if even the fans are starting to buy into the blood on the hands B.S it might have just jumped the shark.

Considering the whole point of the game is to win 500k and the way you do that is by getting people evicted to vote for you, you have to account for the fact that the type of people who play this game tend to be those who have thin skin. That's the most important part of the social game. Kaycee found a way to avoid that. Tyler made moves but he also largely benefited from other people's moves and one of the dumbest alliances known to the game. Kaycee didn't just win two more competitions. She won them when they mattered most. Tyler's wins were mostly in the first half of the game and when it became closer to a head-to-head setup, he got smoked regularly. I mean, really Tyler didn't do all that much socially in this game. He's been overrated because everyone else was pretty terrible at this game.

 

[dahrougem2]

Considering the whole point of the game is to win 500k and the way you do that is by getting people evicted to vote for you, you have to account for the fact that the type of people who play this game tend to be those who have thin skin. That's the most important part of the social game. Kaycee found a way to avoid that. Tyler made moves but he also largely benefited from other people's moves and one of the dumbest alliances known to the game. Kaycee didn't just win two more competitions. She won them when they mattered most. Tyler's wins were mostly in the first half of the game and when it became closer to a head-to-head setup, he got smoked regularly. I mean, really Tyler didn't do all that much socially in this game. He's been overrated because everyone else was pretty terrible at this game.

He's the reason Steve, Swaggy C, Bayleigh, Scottie, and Brett all went home.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

He's the reason Steve, Swaggy C, Bayleigh, Scottie, and Brett all went home.

Neither of Steve or Bayleigh are evictions I'd attribute to him. Steve was the first eviction. That's never impressive. Angela is the reason why Bayleigh went home. Scottie went home because of his own historically poor alliance the first time and the second time was Tyler kowtowing to the house rather than actually making a move. And Tyler orchestrating Brett's eviction is the biggest mistake Tyler made in this game because it sealed his fate to lose the 500k. I'll give you him being the reason Swaggy went home but him manipulating someone like Kaitlyn is no big accomplishment.

Kaycee had a hand in evicting Rockstar, Fessy, Haleigh, Sam, and Angela before winning her way into the Finals. And she did it by winning. She couldn't be beat because she kept winning and you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone in that house that could've went to final two with her and won because of how she did it.

 

[dahrougem2]

Neither of Steve or Bayleigh are evictions I'd attribute to him. Steve was the first eviction. That's never impressive. Angela is the reason why Bayleigh went home. Scottie went home because of his own historically poor alliance the first time and the second time was Tyler kowtowing to the house rather than actually making a move. And Tyler orchestrating Brett's eviction is the biggest mistake Tyler made in this game because it sealed his fate to lose the 500k. I'll give you him being the reason Swaggy went home but him manipulating someone like Kaitlyn is no big accomplishment.

Kaycee had a hand in evicting Rockstar, Fessy, Haleigh, Sam, and Angela before winning her way into the Finals. And she did it by winning. She couldn't be beat because she kept winning and you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone in that house that could've went to final two with her and won because of how she did it.

We're just going to have to agree to disagree, because you're diminishing almost every one of Tyler's accomplishments while propping up Kaycee's.