OT: Baseball?

[denkiteki]

Dont think there is a suitable ballpark for a MLB team and doubt there is close to enough interest to warrant building a ballpark. Plus i doubt Seattle would be too happy with another team closeby since they woild likely lose revenue. Blue jays wiuld likely be negatively impacted too considering over 10k headed over to Seattle and lots of those fans had Blue jays merchandise.

Its probably more likely for a NFL team than MLB just because of the venue and the fact the Seahawks are selling out every game (meaning they wiuldnt be as opposed as Mariners).

 

[Uhmkay]

Where in NA is there a multi-purpose stadium that actually works well for baseball, football and soccer? Football and Soccer hybrids are fairly easy, but in every case that I'm aware of, sharing baseball and football in one stadium is awfully for at least one of the games, if not both. The drastically different field dimensions just don't allow it to work.

I don't disagree with your points about having a better stadium with a better atmosphere for the Lions and Caps, but there is nowhere you could make the same stadium work for MLB baseball as well. Just wouldn't happen.

The major issue with Baseball/Football hybrids in the states is that the football field is narrower and so the baseball field doesn't fit in very well. HOWEVER...

In the CFL, with their field being 65 yards wide and giving about an extra 20 yards on each side for sidelines, that is 105 yards which equals 315ft, which is essentially exactly the same as Yankee Stadium from home plate to left field pole. 3rd base line would run parallel to the football field which is already 450ft, but with moveable seating/wall, this could very easily be moved in to 315ft and make the area behind it where the bullpens are.

It's much more easy to fit a Baseball field into a CFL field than an NFL one. I think at most you'd have to extend the width of the building about 2 yards on each side of the CFL field to give that extra 12ft of space between the third baseline and the visitors dugout.

 

[Hit the post]

Baseball tried like hell to come to Vancouver. They weren't welcomed. Vancouver won't even support triple A ball. There are much better markets for baseball.

In spite of not playing in the most ideal of stadiums to say the least:

“We ranked No. 19 or 20 in attendance out of about 160 teams in North America for all of the minor baseball leagues – that’s Single A, Double A or Triple A,†said Kerr.

The Single A Northwest League baseball team has increased attendance each year since 2006, which was a year before it was bought by Jake Kerr and Jeff Mooney.

However:

Despite the success, Kerr has no plans to move up the baseball hierarchy to be a Triple A team because that would require playing as early as April and as late as October which, in Vancouver, would mean plenty of rainy weather.

“Most Triple A teams that were ever in Vancouver lost their shirt in the first two months and then spent all summer trying to make it back,†he said. “We have a nice model right now where we’re really family entertainment at a reasonable price.â€

Source:

https://www.biv.com/article/2016/11/vancouver-sports-teams-tough-gate/

 

[me2]

Not liking ANY craft beer is like saying "I only drink wine that comes in boxes instead of bottles."

You can fix that

 

[mathonwy]

ya i understood what you meant and mostly agree. FAN seemed to struggle

as i said, im pretty sure baseball has the oldest and whitest fan base of the four major sports

Totally.

 

[The Drop]

BC Place should have been torn down. That place is a pile of junk even after the renovation.

Would be cool to have another pro team but being up against other high profile clubs that spend much more money would mean we'd just be a passenger every year.

Too bad we aren't big enough for the NFL. **** the rest of the sports, that's the one I want

 

[The Stig]

When the new roof was built for BC Place stadium the execs from the Seattle Mariners came up to have a look at the new stadium with the idea that possibly some games or preseason games could be played there. When they came into the bowl area of the stadium and saw the new hanging TV one of the execs asked "Can that TV be moved or taken down?" to which he was told no.

That apparently pretty much ended their trip and any possibility that a game could be played in BC Place.

This short sighted point literally cost us any chance of ever having a MLB team here.

Our only chance of that have ever been considered would have been to do what should have been done.

BC Place should have been completely torn down and rebuilt into a new building that could hold say 40,000 people with a retractable roof so that it could be used and fully enjoyed with more events than just crappy CFL etc. Now they have a ****** roof with a little pinhole as their retractable roof portion.

There is absolutely ZERO chance that someone is going to come in a build a new stadium just for Baseball.

We could have had a brand new building that was perfectly suited for Baseball that could have been used by our MLS and CFL teams, as well as been much better for holding concerts, etc.

What a joke of a missed opportunity for this city. Not surprised with the idiots we have running the place.

A 40,000 seat stadium wouldn't be big enough for a MLB franchise. Also BC Place is very snugly fit into it's spot. A multi purpose style stadium is wider to allow for seat movement and field configuration. The only style of stadium that would fit into that area now, is a oval style stadium like the one thats in there now.

 

[Frostage]

All this stadium talk makes me sad that the city didn't allow the Whitecaps to build a stadium over the train tracks.

Oh yeah, and they weren't asking for a dime.

 

[Uhmkay]

A 40,000 seat stadium wouldn't be big enough for a MLB franchise. Also BC Place is very snugly fit into it's spot. A multi purpose style stadium is wider to allow for seat movement and field configuration. The only style of stadium that would fit into that area now, is a oval style stadium like the one thats in there now.

OK, it's pretty obvious you have no idea what you're talking about. We were talking about when the roof was put on, when there were no ugly condos around BC Place. Also, as I pointed out in a previous post, the actual FIELD for a MLB field already fits inside the CURRENT BC place which seats 56k with just a minor adjustment of 4 yards to the seating along the 1st baseline. Otherwise the building as it stands, without the scoreboard, could fit a team in, although it would be one of the worst buildings to play in.

With modern designs and a high view angle, the building could easily have been built.

The AVERAGE attendance for ball games for all but 3-4 teams is below 40,000 fans.

The typical baseball stadium in the US has 40-42k people although there are exceptions with some going up to 46-48k.

Teams with 42k or less capacity?
Giants
Mets
Tigers
Red Sox
Reds
White Sox
Royals
Marlins
Brewers
Astros
Nationals
Padres
Pirates
Indians
Braves
Twins
Rays
Cubs

 

[Jyrki21]

The NFL won't even come to Toronto despite a massive market with loads of interest. It is never, ever coming to Vancouver.

 

[Hit the post]

The NFL won't even come to Toronto despite a massive market with loads of interest. It is never, ever coming to Vancouver.

Wayyyy too many cities south of the border have taxpayers willing to foot most/all of the cost of a new arena/stadium (some exceptions like Seattle for example - reason why they don't have the Sonics anymore I think). Good luck in Vancouver - corporate welfare for billionaires given all the homeless on the streets.

 

[Alan Jackson]

My god I would pass on baseball forever if Craft Beer was all that was offered.
I would rather drink water!

Your opinion is wrong, and you should feel bad about it.

Good beer is better than bad beer. This isn't hard.

 

[Captain Bowie]

The major issue with Baseball/Football hybrids in the states is that the football field is narrower and so the baseball field doesn't fit in very well. HOWEVER...

In the CFL, with their field being 65 yards wide and giving about an extra 20 yards on each side for sidelines, that is 105 yards which equals 315ft, which is essentially exactly the same as Yankee Stadium from home plate to left field pole. 3rd base line would run parallel to the football field which is already 450ft, but with moveable seating/wall, this could very easily be moved in to 315ft and make the area behind it where the bullpens are.

It's much more easy to fit a Baseball field into a CFL field than an NFL one. I think at most you'd have to extend the width of the building about 2 yards on each side of the CFL field to give that extra 12ft of space between the third baseline and the visitors dugout.

Oh, well if it's just that easy.

And now people talking about the NFL?? That is a laugh and a half. an NBA team coming back is about the only pro sports team that has a real chance of coming here in most of our lifetimes, and even that is more likely to not happen than happen. MLB and NFL teams are simply pipe dreams for the next 30-40 years. It's not just one reason, it's several reasons.

1) Stadium issues
2) lowish population to supports multiple big 4 franchises
3) laid back/non-hardcore attitude of most fans
4) too much to do in summer months
5) very diverse demos that have varrying levels of interest in each sport
6) population not high enough within 30-60 minute commute from downtown. Remember most cities have suburbs in 360 degress from downtown, Vancouver can only do half of that, doubling the average distance from DT.
7) Traffic/transit issues
8) ect.....


If only 1 or 2 of these were present, things would be different.

 

[Tobi Wan Kenobi]

Let me just make a couple of points. The area where the stadiums are is about to be redeveloped following the demolition of the viaduct. One arena is owned by a developer. Stuff is going to happen. Will BC Place become too valuable a property? You could build high rises on the land and raise the value exponentially. When there is serious talk about ending False Creek at the Coast Guard station and extending downtown, you can see how arenas are just buildings on assembled properties.

Surrey has vast tracts of land they are not really using. Wrecking yards make little financial sense in this era. The ring road dooms these relics. A stadium with multi sport (Soccer will come before baseball) capability would boost the local economy and make Surrey more of a center.

The other tenant worth mentioning would be NFL. The CFL can't stagger on forever. Toronto and Vancouver will get football teams when the CFL folds. This will drive investment before any consideration of baseball.

Baseball tried like hell to come to Vancouver. They weren't welcomed. Vancouver won't even support triple A ball. There are much better markets for baseball.

brutal post dude. The only reason baseball isn't triple A here is because of the weather. We need a retractable roof to play April to September... Otherwise Vancouver is a top 3 minor league market in all of North America. We could easily support an MLB team if the skytrains went to Langley, White Rock and South Delta. That's not happening anytime soon but it would work with that.

 

[Chubros]

Baseball has been on the decline for a couple of decades. The stadiums are not usable for any other sports or events.

Sure it's fun to play - but so is lawn darts.

And I do agree it's fun to go to baseball game. But we can already do that in Vancouver - going to a Canadians game is a blast. But as with attending any baseball game, you typically don't spend any time actually watching the game - it's all about the company and the refreshments. And even if you did try to watch the game, you can't see **** all from most of the seats. If you actually want to watch the play it's way better to do so on TV.

MLB? There's no excuse for the number of games in an MLB season. It's pointless to play so many games, especially when so few teams make the playoffs, which renders the majority of the games meaningless. And MLB players are the most overpaid players in all of sport.

Vancouverites wouldn't support an MLB team, not because we are bad sports fans.
Rather, Vancouverites wouldn't support MLB because MLB sucks ****.

Honestly I would rather have the Vancouver Canadians playing in their current venue than an MLB team.

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

MLB players are the most overpaid because the league revenue is bananas. A bottom-of-the-barrel MLB team crushes the top NHL teams in revenue. So, no, it does not suck and is not "in decline" in any meaningful way.

 

[Uhmkay]

Baseball has been on the decline for a couple of decades. The stadiums are not usable for any other sports or events.

Sure it's fun to play - but so is lawn darts.

And I do agree it's fun to go to baseball game. But we can already do that in Vancouver - going to a Canadians game is a blast. But as with attending any baseball game, you typically don't spend any time actually watching the game - it's all about the company and the refreshments. And even if you did try to watch the game, you can't see **** all from most of the seats. If you actually want to watch the play it's way better to do so on TV.

MLB? There's no excuse for the number of games in an MLB season. It's pointless to play so many games, especially when so few teams make the playoffs, which renders the majority of the games meaningless. And MLB players are the most overpaid players in all of sport.

Vancouverites wouldn't support an MLB team, not because we are bad sports fans.
Rather, Vancouverites wouldn't support MLB because MLB sucks ****.

Honestly I would rather have the Vancouver Canadians playing in their current venue than an MLB team.

Congrats Bro... possibly the stupidest post on these forums.

I despise soccer, but there is no doubt how popular it is.

PS: Baseball ratings in this part of the country have been increasing for SEVERAL years now. And if you think people around here don't like baseball, go take a look at how many Canadians go to Seattle to see a game, and I'm not just talking about when the Blue Jays are in town.

Vancouver is not a bad sports town. We have people who are fanatics about all of the big 4 sports. The problem is, we like the big 4 sports more than stuff like CFL, etc. Grizzlies had a good crowd even though they sucked. There are thousands of people that make the trek every Sunday the Seahawks are playing.

Vancouverites aren't just sports fans though, we enjoy all sorts of activities outside of the big sports events. Hiking, skiing, etc. And unlike other places around Canada, we have all that to enjoy as well. So if I'm given the choice to go for a ride around the seawall and stop at a few places for drinks and sit in the sun... or go to a crappy CFL game where Wally refuses to open the pinhole roof... I'm going for drinks!

 

[Rocko604]

brutal post dude. The only reason baseball isn't triple A here is because of the weather. We need a retractable roof to play April to September... Otherwise Vancouver is a top 3 minor league market in all of North America. We could easily support an MLB team if the skytrains went to Langley, White Rock and South Delta. That's not happening anytime soon but it would work with that.

Actually that's not the reason, otherwise Tacoma would have moved a long time ago. Nat Bailey, despite its picturesque setting and old time feel, unfortunately can't cut it as a Triple-A ballpark. Most parks in the PCL today are like mini-MLB stadiums complete with luxury boxes. And since the PCL is the only other minor league the C's could possibly get into, we're going to have Short-A for the foreseeable future. Fine by me, though, because I only like going to games in the summer anyway.

 

[Uhmkay]

Actually that's not the reason, otherwise Tacoma would have moved a long time ago. Nat Bailey, despite its picturesque setting and old time feel, unfortunately can't cut it as a Triple-A ballpark. Most parks in the PCL today are like mini-MLB stadiums complete with luxury boxes. And since the PCL is the only other minor league the C's could possibly get into, we're going to have Short-A for the foreseeable future. Fine by me, though, because I only like going to games in the summer anyway.

It is actually the reason. The Stadium for Nat Bailey could easily be upgraded to fit in an extra 2000 seats by increasing to full sections from Section 11 to left field as well as on the 1st base line by getting rid of the BBQ section.. And as it is, the Canadians average attendance now is about middle of the pack for a Triple-A team.

It doesn't matter if you have a 10k capacity building if you're only averaging 4500 like many of the AAA teams are.

Both the owner of the C's as well as minor league presidents have gone on record as saying that it's too difficult to schedule that many games in Vancouver with the rain we have. Andy Dunn was also on the air last year with 1040 stating that Triple A would work here if it wasn't for the weather and that the building could be upgraded further to do so.

 

[Jabba The Hutton]

Let's just see what the Vancouver Canadians can grow into, they were once Triple A after all. They are slowly renovating the stadium and adding seats, while keeping a great atmosphere.

The Canadians are so very happy where they are in single A short season. They get tons of hipsters that don't really know anything about baseball (i.e. they won't see the difference between a single A team and a double AA team) but want cheap tickets and expensive craft beer. And the cost of the league for them is minimal. So they must be making tons of money.

If they moved up a level or two, I honestly think you would see only a slight increase in people coming, and the costs will significantly increase for the Canadians, so it would be a money-losing proposition for them.

Think about what league the Vancouver Canadians would have to join if they tried to move up..... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minor_League_Baseball#Class_A

Pretty much every league other than Pacific Coast League (AAA) have teams in specific areas way too far away from Vancouver.

So I think what the Canadians are doing is perfect, slowly growing the stadium, partnering with the Blue Jays and playing the Canada angle.

Lots of Canadians come down to watch Blue Jays from Vancouver area, but I don't think that means we can actually support a successful MLB franchise. Population is huge, but not the kind of population that will plop their butts down to watch a baseball game.

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

There is freaking 3 million people here if you include the Fraser Valley. This market can easyily have more than 1 major team.

 

[TruGr1t]

I think the MLB might be open to exploring Vancouver if there was ever any local interest shown at all. There really hasn't been much to date.

The scenario where it would have probably worked is when there was discussion about building the waterfront facility in Gastown for the Whitecaps.

If someone had stepped forward with a plan for a multi-use waterfront facility with Seabus access that included MLB specifications it probably could have gotten done, and would have been pretty sweet.

 

[NoShowWilly]

There is freaking 3 million people here if you include the Fraser Valley. This market can easyily have more than 1 major team.

with a smart GM, basketball would for sure work here.

the team played 6 seasons here, had 5 head coaches and had a record of 101 - 359 in 460 games. didn't win 20 games in a season until we were basically out the door.

Philadelphia 76ers the last few years are talked about as truly horrible but they've had 2 seasons over that span that were better than anything we ever had.

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

with a smart GM, basketball would for sure work here.

the team played 6 seasons here, had 5 head coaches and had a record of 101 - 359 in 460 games. didn't win 20 games in a season until we were basically out the door.

Philadelphia 76ers the last few years are talked about as truly horrible but they've had 2 seasons over that span that were better than anything we ever had.

Yeah, people underestimate just how truly terrible the grizzlies were, and how much that affected their attendance.

Their first 4 seasons, the grizzlies ranked 16th-20th in the league in attendance. Not bad for an absolutely godawful expansion team with a high water mark of 15 wins.

 

[crobro]

Montreal should be first in line for a MLB Franchise

If MLB really wanted to kick start a Montreal MLB franchise they can posthumously and ceremonially award the 94-95 World Series to the Expos who were first place in all of MLB at the time of the lockout .