OT: Baseball?

[Verviticus]

ya i understood what you meant and mostly agree. FAN seemed to struggle

as i said, im pretty sure baseball has the oldest and whitest fan base of the four major sports

 

[Tobi Wan Kenobi]

im pretty sure the baseball fan demographic is virtually entirely old white people

Lol so far off

 

[Zaddy91]

ya i understood what you meant and mostly agree. FAN seemed to struggle

as i said, im pretty sure baseball has the oldest and whitest fan base of the four major sports

Doubt it south americans and east asians love it.

doubted MLB but this comment makes me realize it could function in Vancouver if our Summers stay like this.

Tourism?

Checkmate

 

[Verviticus]

http://opendorse.com/blog/2013-sports-fan-demographics/

hmm (by the way, this is a good lesson on how not to make infographics)

my other statement is wrong though, hockey is whiter than baseball, which makes sense - but not even close to the same age

 

[Verviticus]

i think its a moderately safe conclusion that any sport that develops in vancouver will have substantially lower immediate support because of the demographics here and im blown away that anyone would find that offensive

if an MLB team stuck around for 30 years or whatever i dont doubt it would be competitive, percentage-wise, with other cities, but not right now

 

[me2]

ya i understood what you meant and mostly agree. FAN seemed to struggle

as i said, im pretty sure baseball has the oldest and whitest fan base of the four major sports

Hockey is the whitest of the big 4 (not speaking for vancouver). The only thing white than hockey is NASCAR, and then only by the tiniest amount.

 

[Hammer79]

I would love to see an MLB move to Vancouver. I don't think it's realistic at this point, but I'd like to see it.

We have this thread pop up every 6 months or so though and this thread is just a rehash of the same stuff we see.

'Lol baseball sucks/is boring' (LOL so does hockey in many ways, it's all about personal taste)
'crap stadium' (so build another one?)
'small city' (I think it's big enough of a regional hub to support a team)

I think that our annual swarming of Seattle for the Blue Jays - Mariners series proves that there is an appetite for baseball in this city. Can we get 35k fans out a night for 81 home games for a team that most years won't be a playoff contender? That's another question... For now I'll get my fix watching the Blue Jays on tv.

 

[Verviticus]

I would love to see an MLB move to Vancouver. I don't think it's realistic at this point, but I'd like to see it.

We have this thread pop up every 6 months or so though and this thread is just a rehash of the same stuff we see.

'Lol baseball sucks/is boring' (LOL so does hockey in many ways, it's all about personal taste)
'crap stadium' (so build another one?)
'small city' (I think it's big enough of a regional hub to support a team)

I think that our annual swarming of Seattle for the Blue Jays - Mariners series proves that there is an appetite for baseball in this city. Can we get 35k fans out a night for 81 home games for a team that most years won't be a playoff contender? That's another question... For now I'll get my fix watching the Blue Jays on tv.

ehhh, that kind of behaviour doesnt necessarily translate to a viable business

 

[ProstheticConscience]

'crap stadium' (so build another one?)

WTF? Hello, we can't even find places for people to live here. A doghouse would cost half a million anywhere on the west side, and that's without the land itself. Yeah, we'll just magically build a MLB-calibre stadium in Vancouver. Where it rains 3/4 of the year. Great plan.

 

[PG Canuck]

Vancouver COULD be a very good sports town if we had a major league team that was owned by owners that were serious about building a franchise as opposed to milking the fans and players for $$$.

Everything about the Canucks franchise has been a marketing cluster.

Most recent case in point, look at how poorly a portion of today's Canuck fans view the 2011 team. Defending Jimbo and always putting down Gillis. Stale core BS and what not. It really is unfathomable how many so called Canuck fans are in this group.

Also along this vein, look at how unhappy the 2011 core has been over the last few years (14-15 aside). Up-tempo hockey requires players that give an eff. The last couple years, most of the vets did not give an eff. Unhappy employees = crappy management.

It's not Vancouver or BC.

It's the past instability of ownership combined with the greediness of today's owners that have contributed to the perception that Vancouver is not a typical sports town.

Sounds like an excuse. Not many owners are straight as an arrow, if any. Vancouver just isn't that kind of city, I don't care what kind of owners we have.

 

[sexydonut]

You may not care about the owners, but the owners' actions impact the fans, including you.

Remember the late and unlamented Michael Heisley, that amoral leveraged buyout king who purchased the Grizzlies, made promises to keep them in town, and then subsequently bolted to an even more profitable taxpayer-funded deal in Memphis? That is just one example of a crappie owner who screwed over a fan base.

You couldn'the blame the Grizzlies fans for supporting a z-list product. Yet Heisley (and that previous turd McCaw) were about extracting blood for their own bottom line, fans be damned.

Sports leagues are cartels who derive higher franchise values and extra subsidies by consciously keeping the supply of teams lower than the demand for them. Thus we had the Sonics, Expos, the LA football teams, etc. etc. playing a giant corporate game of musical chairs.

As for baseball in Vancouver, I can see some land developer billionaire (and there are a number of them in Vancouver) bribing/lobbying for some degree of subsidies for an urban renewal/gentrification stadium. The downtown east side could be a candidate. The team itself may be lousy, but the jump in land values could financially justify the expenses.

 

[mathonwy]

Sounds like an excuse. Not many owners are straight as an arrow, if any. Vancouver just isn't that kind of city, I don't care what kind of owners we have.

It's not about ethics.

It's about having a consistent message to your fans.

There's nothing special about the fans in Vancouver.

Sports fans are sheep and will follow when there's a strong and consistent shepherd to lead them. One just needs to look at how many uniform changes, color changes and logo changes this team has gone through already in their 47 year history to see how inconsistent that messaging has been.

As well, this team seems to have a knack of kicking itself in the ass.

It builds a tonne of momentum ('94) and then destroys itself afterwards (Messier).

It builds a tonne of momentum (WCE) and then destroys itself afterwards (Bertuzzi).

It builds a tonne of momentum ('11) and then destroys itself afterwards (now).

No other team in this league has gone through such radical shifts in momentum.

IMO, the inconsistent messaging together with the very radical shifts in momentum is why the Canuck fan are who they (we) are.

 

[Uhmkay]

When the new roof was built for BC Place stadium the execs from the Seattle Mariners came up to have a look at the new stadium with the idea that possibly some games or preseason games could be played there. When they came into the bowl area of the stadium and saw the new hanging TV one of the execs asked "Can that TV be moved or taken down?" to which he was told no.

That apparently pretty much ended their trip and any possibility that a game could be played in BC Place.

This short sighted point literally cost us any chance of ever having a MLB team here.

Our only chance of that have ever been considered would have been to do what should have been done.

BC Place should have been completely torn down and rebuilt into a new building that could hold say 40,000 people with a retractable roof so that it could be used and fully enjoyed with more events than just crappy CFL etc. Now they have a ****** roof with a little pinhole as their retractable roof portion.

There is absolutely ZERO chance that someone is going to come in a build a new stadium just for Baseball.

We could have had a brand new building that was perfectly suited for Baseball that could have been used by our MLS and CFL teams, as well as been much better for holding concerts, etc.

What a joke of a missed opportunity for this city. Not surprised with the idiots we have running the place.

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

Yeah, the little sunroof thing on bc place is honestly one of the most asinine ideas.

 

[PM]

It's a sphincter. The BC place roof has a ****ing sphincter like a certain human body part.

 

[Captain Bowie]

When the new roof was built for BC Place stadium the execs from the Seattle Mariners came up to have a look at the new stadium with the idea that possibly some games or preseason games could be played there. When they came into the bowl area of the stadium and saw the new hanging TV one of the execs asked "Can that TV be moved or taken down?" to which he was told no.

That apparently pretty much ended their trip and any possibility that a game could be played in BC Place.

This short sighted point literally cost us any chance of ever having a MLB team here.

Our only chance of that have ever been considered would have been to do what should have been done.

BC Place should have been completely torn down and rebuilt into a new building that could hold say 40,000 people with a retractable roof so that it could be used and fully enjoyed with more events than just crappy CFL etc. Now they have a ****** roof with a little pinhole as their retractable roof portion.

There is absolutely ZERO chance that someone is going to come in a build a new stadium just for Baseball.

We could have had a brand new building that was perfectly suited for Baseball that could have been used by our MLS and CFL teams, as well as been much better for holding concerts, etc.

What a joke of a missed opportunity for this city. Not surprised with the idiots we have running the place.

You are right on some points here, but no amount of renovations to BC Place would have made ideal, or even acceptable, for MLB baseball. No matter how they did the scoreboard or the roof.

I agree that at the time the money would have been better spent on a smaller, outdoor stadium with a lot more atmosphere, like what many of the CFL teams are doing right now.

But there are too many reasons why baseball won't work here in the next 20-30 years, the stadium situation is just one of several. Montreal should and will have a second generation of baseball fans growing up cheering on their team before we should be looking at one, and their stadium situation is just as ugly.

However, and this is a big point you are missing, they weren't going to tear down BC Place and build a BASEBALL stadium, with no baseball team, and make a football and soccer team adapt to it. That simply wasn't going to happen in any way.

 

[crobro]

It's only a matter of time that very soon a mainland Chinese multi-Billionaire will purchase and relocate a NBA team back to Vancouver.

 

[Uhmkay]

You are right on some points here, but no amount of renovations to BC Place would have made ideal, or even acceptable, for MLB baseball. No matter how they did the scoreboard or the roof.

I agree that at the time the money would have been better spent on a smaller, outdoor stadium with a lot more atmosphere, like what many of the CFL teams are doing right now.

But there are too many reasons why baseball won't work here in the next 20-30 years, the stadium situation is just one of several. Montreal should and will have a second generation of baseball fans growing up cheering on their team before we should be looking at one, and their stadium situation is just as ugly.

However, and this is a big point you are missing, they weren't going to tear down BC Place and build a BASEBALL stadium, with no baseball team, and make a football and soccer team adapt to it. That simply wasn't going to happen in any way.

Nobody is missing that point. They only had to build a stadium that was CAPABLE of having baseball in it as many other stadiums do by being a true multi-purpose stadium. They royally screwed up their opportunity to build a state of the art building that this city needed.

The building could have been used for so many other things other than what BC Place is currently used for.

And fact of the matter is this... MANY MANY more fans would be going to the games/events if it was in a better building. You'd probably very quickly see a massive rise in attendance for CFL if it was in a proper stadium with a proper retractable roof. It pisses me off to no end when the Lions don't open the roof on SUNNY days... it's one factor that keeps fans away. Why would I spend good money to go sit INDOORS when it's nice out.

I actually HATE the CFL and MLS... but you know what, in a proper stadium with a retractable roof instead of that ******** they have now, I'd actually go just for the event.

 

[Captain Bowie]

Nobody is missing that point. They only had to build a stadium that was CAPABLE of having baseball in it as many other stadiums do by being a true multi-purpose stadium. They royally screwed up their opportunity to build a state of the art building that this city needed.

The building could have been used for so many other things other than what BC Place is currently used for.

And fact of the matter is this... MANY MANY more fans would be going to the games/events if it was in a better building. You'd probably very quickly see a massive rise in attendance for CFL if it was in a proper stadium with a proper retractable roof. It pisses me off to no end when the Lions don't open the roof on SUNNY days... it's one factor that keeps fans away. Why would I spend good money to go sit INDOORS when it's nice out.

I actually HATE the CFL and MLS... but you know what, in a proper stadium with a retractable roof instead of that ******** they have now, I'd actually go just for the event.

Where in NA is there a multi-purpose stadium that actually works well for baseball, football and soccer? Football and Soccer hybrids are fairly easy, but in every case that I'm aware of, sharing baseball and football in one stadium is awfully for at least one of the games, if not both. The drastically different field dimensions just don't allow it to work.

I don't disagree with your points about having a better stadium with a better atmosphere for the Lions and Caps, but there is nowhere you could make the same stadium work for MLB baseball as well. Just wouldn't happen.

 

[jimslob]

I think MLB could work here in an intimate, baseball specific stadium. Problem is, nobody's willing to build one.

It would be something, though. Sitting outside on a summer evening with a view of the mountains, enjoying a local craft beer whilst watching a Major League Baseball game certainly sounds appealing.

I don't know that a team would do very well at BC Place - certainly not after the novelty wears off, and certainly not if the team is poor.

My god I would pass on baseball forever if Craft Beer was all that was offered.
I would rather drink water!

 

[Captain Bowie]

My god I would pass on baseball forever if Craft Beer was all that was offered.
I would rather drink water!

That's fine, decent beer is not for everyone.

 

[jimslob]

That's fine, decent beer is not for everyone.

Yes and they make craft beer for those people.

Sorry just my opinion.

 

[PM]

Not liking ANY craft beer is like saying "I only drink wine that comes in boxes instead of bottles."

 

[JuniorNelson]

Let me just make a couple of points. The area where the stadiums are is about to be redeveloped following the demolition of the viaduct. One arena is owned by a developer. Stuff is going to happen. Will BC Place become too valuable a property? You could build high rises on the land and raise the value exponentially. When there is serious talk about ending False Creek at the Coast Guard station and extending downtown, you can see how arenas are just buildings on assembled properties.

Surrey has vast tracts of land they are not really using. Wrecking yards make little financial sense in this era. The ring road dooms these relics. A stadium with multi sport (Soccer will come before baseball) capability would boost the local economy and make Surrey more of a center.

The other tenant worth mentioning would be NFL. The CFL can't stagger on forever. Toronto and Vancouver will get football teams when the CFL folds. This will drive investment before any consideration of baseball.

Baseball tried like hell to come to Vancouver. They weren't welcomed. Vancouver won't even support triple A ball. There are much better markets for baseball.

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

Yes and they make craft beer for those people.

Sorry just my opinion.

Your opinion literally doesn't make sense.