OT: Baseball?

[PG Canuck]

Baseball has been on the decline for a couple of decades. The stadiums are not usable for any other sports or events.

Sure it's fun to play - but so is lawn darts.

And I do agree it's fun to go to baseball game. But we can already do that in Vancouver - going to a Canadians game is a blast. But as with attending any baseball game, you typically don't spend any time actually watching the game - it's all about the company and the refreshments. And even if you did try to watch the game, you can't see **** all from most of the seats. If you actually want to watch the play it's way better to do so on TV.

MLB? There's no excuse for the number of games in an MLB season. It's pointless to play so many games, especially when so few teams make the playoffs, which renders the majority of the games meaningless. And MLB players are the most overpaid players in all of sport.

Vancouverites wouldn't support an MLB team, not because we are bad sports fans.
Rather, Vancouverites wouldn't support MLB because MLB sucks ****.

Honestly I would rather have the Vancouver Canadians playing in their current venue than an MLB team.

That's uhhhh, rather wrong. Vancouver just isn't a sport city and baseball certainly isn't stupid. Vancouver is most definitely bad sports fans.

There's so much wrong here that I can't even decide where to begin.

 

[PG Canuck]

There is freaking 3 million people here if you include the Fraser Valley. This market can easyily have more than 1 major team.

Amount of people means nothing.

 

[Verviticus]

im pretty sure not supporting a product like MLB makes you a bad sports fan. the question is: why the **** should anyone care

 

[Captain Bowie]

There is freaking 3 million people here if you include the Fraser Valley. This market can easyily have more than 1 major team.

Sure, if we were a 2 sport town where hockey and just one other sport were important to the large majority of people that is definitely true. But look in this very thread, people can't agree on what sport we should even try to get first.

Plus we do have 3 pro teams that we need to support.

Plus the majority of that pop from the Valley are looking at a 2+ hour commute to make it downtown for a game. They may be willing to do this once a week, but not going to help much to fill a stadium during the week, every night like MLB would need.

 

[ginner classic]

Vancouver sucks in general imo. Love the surrounding beauty but everybody is way too up tight. Traveling trough the states you realize Vancouver truly is a no fun city.

It depends on what you value. If you live in the outdoors, it's the best city on the planet. If you live nightclubs and festivals it's pretty lame.

 

[Captain Bowie]

It depends on what you value. If you live in the outdoors, it's the best city on the planet. If you live nightclubs and festivals it's pretty lame.

It's funny, I've been doing a lot of hiking this summer, and on the trails people could not be nicer.

 

[denkiteki]

There is freaking 3 million people here if you include the Fraser Valley. This market can easyily have more than 1 major team.

Not many of them will drive 2+ hrs 1 way to watch a baseball game every day or say 40 times a year even.

Remember baseball plays 2x the number of home games than other sports and that include a lot of weekday games. Add to that its played during the summer...

Personally i would rather go outside during the summer vs be in bc place for 3+ hrs. If i want to watch a baseball game, i'll watch it on my phone while outside.

Heck i haven't even been to a BC Lions game this year yet nor have any plan on (tho i might after a good start to the season). Even right now, i'm posting on my Surface Pro while outside in my backyard.

 

[Domecile]

I'd buy season tickets for a baseball team in Vancouver.

 

[Bubbles]

People are citing that Jays "fans" are going to Seattle in record numbers. True, I went this past June and there were a zillion fans. But it's also a weekend, and just like everyone else, I was enjoying a weekend away in another city, while also enjoying the games. You can't multiply that by 80 games!

I went 5 years ago, when the Jays were crap, and there were only a handful of Jays fans. It's such a bandwagon city in terms of sports. Watch the inevitable slide when the Jays are crap in the next 5 years.

Also, most baseball stadiums are single purpose. I'm pretty sure no city in the Lower Mainland would even consider any funds to build such a structure in a fickle sports atmosphere here.

 

[Hit the post]

People are citing that Jays "fans" are going to Seattle in record numbers. True, I went this past June and there were a zillion fans. But it's also a weekend, and just like everyone else, I was enjoying a weekend away in another city, while also enjoying the games. You can't multiply that by 80 games!

I went 5 years ago, when the Jays were crap, and there were only a handful of Jays fans. It's such a bandwagon city in terms of sports. Watch the inevitable slide when the Jays are crap in the next 5 years.

Also, most baseball stadiums are single purpose. I'm pretty sure no city in the Lower Mainland would even consider any funds to build such a structure in a fickle sports atmosphere here.

IMHO, it's a bit overstated. Only a few cities can make a convincing argument (at least to me) that they aren't fickle. How many Cups do the Canucks have? How long has the team been here? That's a LONG TIME of ineptitude. Only wetcoaster can claim he's seen a Stanley Cup winning Vancouver team.

Does this city riot over poverty? Nope. Injustice? Nope. Hockey? Heck, YES!
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course we do riot over G&R concerts LOL...

 

[Bubbles]

All this stadium talk makes me sad that the city didn't allow the Whitecaps to build a stadium over the train tracks.

Oh yeah, and they weren't asking for a dime.

Nothing like having a multimillionaire owner who already owns the land, is passionate about sports, and wanted to fund it himself. Talk about a messed up bureaucracy! That was literally a decade ago and that area has still not been developed because of the endless complaints.

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

People are citing that Jays "fans" are going to Seattle in record numbers. True, I went this past June and there were a zillion fans. But it's also a weekend, and just like everyone else, I was enjoying a weekend away in another city, while also enjoying the games. You can't multiply that by 80 games!

I went 5 years ago, when the Jays were crap, and there were only a handful of Jays fans. It's such a bandwagon city in terms of sports. Watch the inevitable slide when the Jays are crap in the next 5 years.

Also, most baseball stadiums are single purpose. I'm pretty sure no city in the Lower Mainland would even consider any funds to build such a structure in a fickle sports atmosphere here.

I don't think this is true, or at least you are exaggerating a bit. I have been an active fan of the jays since 2003 and whenever they are in Seattle it is always a thing. Sure there are more now than before, but "just a handful" is stretching it.

 

[Bubbles]

I don't think this is true, or at least you are exaggerating a bit. I have been an active fan of the jays since 2003 and whenever they are in Seattle it is always a thing. Sure there are more now than before, but "just a handful" is stretching it.

I mean in the hundreds. I was making the case that when the Jays are crap, they will go back to a lower level equivalent to the 2000s. The point being that won't support a team 80 days a year.

 

[MS]

Completely agree that there is a big-time bandwagon Jays thing going on right now.

As someone who is a Mariners/Jays fan (would prefer to be a Mariners fan, but it's so easy to follow the Jays relatively speaking), I'd say it's gone from 2000 Jays fans/game to 15000 fans/game in Seattle over the past few years.

The Mariners have really dropped the ball in this market. I end up following the Jays because they're easy to follow - every game is on TV, and Jays in 30 is just a brilliant thing to keep in touch and follow games on a daily basis when you don't have 3 hours to sit down and watch.

I have trouble watching more than 10 Mariners games/season even though they're 'my team' and I'd rather be emotionally invested in a team closer to me that I can go down and watch in person occasionally. But they've just done an atrocious job of marketing up into Canada and generating any fan support/loyalty here, or making their product accessible.

 

[Uhmkay]

Completely agree that there is a big-time bandwagon Jays thing going on right now.

As someone who is a Mariners/Jays fan (would prefer to be a Mariners fan, but it's so easy to follow the Jays relatively speaking), I'd say it's gone from 2000 Jays fans/game to 15000 fans/game in Seattle over the past few years.

The Mariners have really dropped the ball in this market. I end up following the Jays because they're easy to follow - every game is on TV, and Jays in 30 is just a brilliant thing to keep in touch and follow games on a daily basis when you don't have 3 hours to sit down and watch.

I have trouble watching more than 10 Mariners games/season even though they're 'my team' and I'd rather be emotionally invested in a team closer to me that I can go down and watch in person occasionally. But they've just done an atrocious job of marketing up into Canada and generating any fan support/loyalty here, or making their product accessible.

MASSIVE understatement and you obviously were not at the games this year.

Safeco holds almost 48k people. At least 75% of the fans were Jays fans in full Jays gear, plus others who were not. The running joke down there was it was rare to actually see ANY Mariners fans.... no joke.

And I say this as someone who is a regular to Canucks games against any other Canadian team. The Ratio of Jays fans at a Mariners game dwarfs anything that we had seen at Canucks games when Leafs, Canadians, Oilers or Flames fans threw at the Canucks even at the Canucks worst.

Suggesting that the Jays fans made up only 1/3 of the fans at Safeco is a joke. If you didn't know it was Seattle, you would have thought it was a Jays home game. No exaggeration.

 

[Rocko604]

It is actually the reason. The Stadium for Nat Bailey could easily be upgraded to fit in an extra 2000 seats by increasing to full sections from Section 11 to left field as well as on the 1st base line by getting rid of the BBQ section.. And as it is, the Canadians average attendance now is about middle of the pack for a Triple-A team.

It doesn't matter if you have a 10k capacity building if you're only averaging 4500 like many of the AAA teams are.

Both the owner of the C's as well as minor league presidents have gone on record as saying that it's too difficult to schedule that many games in Vancouver with the rain we have. Andy Dunn was also on the air last year with 1040 stating that Triple A would work here if it wasn't for the weather and that the building could be upgraded further to do so.

And again, if the rain was really a problem, Tacoma would have been gone a long time ago. If they can make work, we could too. Put them on the road more in April/May, and schedule the home series with teams who would make two trips up in cause double headers need to be played. Easier said than done mind you but probably could be done. The stadium would need a major renovation: new dressing rooms, dugouts, and press box, on top of expanded capacity, which Dunn has also stated as why Triple A won't come back.

 

[Hit the post]

And again, if the rain was really a problem, Tacoma would have been gone a long time ago. If they can make work, we could too. Put them on the road more in April/May, and schedule the home series with teams who would make two trips up in cause double headers need to be played. Easier said than done mind you but probably could be done. The stadium would need a major renovation: new dressing rooms, dugouts, and press box, on top of expanded capacity, which Dunn has also stated as why Triple A won't come back.

Not sure how much being the affiliate for the Mariners helps the Rainers (they are pretty close in terms of distance).

 

[Scott Stevens]

I have to wonder how many of the people who are saying Jays "fans" count themselves as "12s".

That's the wagon round these parts.

 

[denkiteki]

People are citing that Jays "fans" are going to Seattle in record numbers. True, I went this past June and there were a zillion fans. But it's also a weekend, and just like everyone else, I was enjoying a weekend away in another city, while also enjoying the games. You can't multiply that by 80 games!

I went 5 years ago, when the Jays were crap, and there were only a handful of Jays fans. It's such a bandwagon city in terms of sports. Watch the inevitable slide when the Jays are crap in the next 5 years.

Also, most baseball stadiums are single purpose. I'm pretty sure no city in the Lower Mainland would even consider any funds to build such a structure in a fickle sports atmosphere here.

Maybe you just didn't see them? Statistically speaking, Seattle vs Toronto has seen increased in attendance.

Statistically speaking this year, the 3 games in Seattle drew 33,518,45,480,41,137 vs average of 26,163 so there was a huge spike (and also note price doubled for those 3 games vs the previous ticket prices). Also note the surround games drew 15-21k fans. 5 years ago they drew 22,443, 21,434, 22,537, which is still above their average of 21,258. That was a weekday series too. It was actually 3k more than their weekend series vs KCR tho for comparison and for the most part, Seattle 2nd half drew a lot less fans than first half (i.e. no longer contending). Again for comparison, their Sunday game drew 19,402 before Blue Jays and Thurs/Fri drew 15k (Sat was likely a promotion game since it drew 32k... i believe most teams do have promos on Sat). For farther comparison, their next home (also a Monday) drew 16,205 fans..

So based on the surrounding games, even 5 years ago its logical to assume around 3-5k fans showed up. Not the same level of support but still decent. While this year, its safe to assume 15-20k each fans showed up.

I do agree that it doesn't make sense to build such a structure here tho. If there was a vote (and i believe there needs to be a vote before a structure/investment of this size could be built), i really doubt it'll get close to passing.

 

[PG Canuck]

Completely agree that there is a big-time bandwagon Jays thing going on right now.

As someone who is a Mariners/Jays fan (would prefer to be a Mariners fan, but it's so easy to follow the Jays relatively speaking), I'd say it's gone from 2000 Jays fans/game to 15000 fans/game in Seattle over the past few years.

The Mariners have really dropped the ball in this market. I end up following the Jays because they're easy to follow - every game is on TV, and Jays in 30 is just a brilliant thing to keep in touch and follow games on a daily basis when you don't have 3 hours to sit down and watch.

I have trouble watching more than 10 Mariners games/season even though they're 'my team' and I'd rather be emotionally invested in a team closer to me that I can go down and watch in person occasionally. But they've just done an atrocious job of marketing up into Canada and generating any fan support/loyalty here, or making their product accessible.

I agree the Mariners should market here better because I think they could convert the majority of BC, seeing as they are much closer than Toronto. It would create more revenue, interest and ticket sales i the future. I guess they just don't particularly have too much interest in doing so.

However, I find it way easier to watch Mariners games because they start at 7PM. Jays games are done by the time I'm even off work, or are just ending as soon as I get home - sure there are highlights and programs but it's not the same and I'm not highly invested in the Jays anymore.

I mean in the end it is ultimately up to the person how much of a fan they are willing to be - MLBTV is an easy buy, very user friendly etc etc so it's not as if games are blacked out here. I don't know your work hours but it should, theoretically speaking, be easier to watch full Mariners games since they actually start at 7:10PM, not vice versa with Jays being easier. But that could just be me, I don't know. I don't find it that much of a hindrance to watch every M's game.

I fell into the "Support Canada's Team" thing but I have massively fell out of touch with the Jays and am a hardcore Mariners fan. MLBTV is an amazing thing, and cheaper than having to get Sportsnet + whatever other TV package you have to buy to even get it.

Jays will go back to near irrelevancy once they kickstart a rebuild. Quite frankly, all the bandwagoning has turned me off from the Jays and I am largely back on the Tuck Foronto bandwagon altogether.

 

[PG Canuck]

I have to wonder how many of the people who are saying Jays "fans" count themselves as "12s".

That's the wagon round these parts.

I think you're underestimating how many people actually travel from BC to Seattle to watch the Hawks.

I went to my first Hawks game last season and I saw plenty of BC plates on my travels there.

 

[Jyrki21]

I fell into the "Support Canada's Team" thing but I have massively fell out of touch with the Jays and am a hardcore Mariners fan. MLBTV is an amazing thing, and cheaper than having to get Sportsnet + whatever other TV package you have to buy to even get it.

Jays will go back to near irrelevancy once they kickstart a rebuild. Quite frankly, all the bandwagoning has turned me off from the Jays and I am largely back on the Tuck Foronto bandwagon altogether.

 

[PG Canuck]

I mean I still like the Jays to an extent mostly because I cheered for them for a handful of years and have attachments to current players but with me hardly following them I'll be a Jays hater down the road again.

 

[DustyMartellaughs]

I hate the Jays. Their fawning in-house media turned me off of ever cheering any success they may have.
I agree, though, that the Mariners put very little effort into marketing to BC. It's far easier to get a Jays fix daily than it is to even see a Mariners recap.
I laugh at those who hate the Leafs yet support the Jays.

 

[Captain Bowie]

I mean I still like the Jays to an extent mostly because I cheered for them for a handful of years and have attachments to current players but with me hardly following them I'll be a Jays hater down the road again.

Remove your avatar and GTFO!!!!

People assume I am some bandwagon fan when I walk around with my Jays hat on. I have been a fan of the team since the *insert old player name here* was a regular (Raul Mondesi, Jose Cruz Jr. Darren Fletcher, Reed Johnson, Vernon Wells, Delgado, the O-Dog, Shannon Stewart, Tony Batista and his crazy stance, Brad Fullmer and his lip full of chew, ect....)

Although I will admit I do that with all the Seahawks fans I see around that were non-existant 5 years ago. I just want credit for all the crappy years I put in.