Speculation: Barrie

[4thline]

Closing the book on a deal highlighted by the 1 year acquisition of an impact player before the playoffs are completed, while ignoring that his acquisition is a big part of why we are even in a playoff position to begin with, wonderful!

 

[BrannigansLaw]

Closing the book on a deal highlighted by the 1 year acquisition of an impact player before the playoffs are completed, while ignoring that his acquisition is a big part of why we are even in a playoff position to begin with, wonderful!

Aren't we an even worse team this year at the 71 game mark than we were last year?

 

[Buds17]

more expensive yes, but only by a small amount and also a much more valuable player. we'd have also saved cap space this past season.

the vacancy on the blueline is still here though because barrie is unsigned for next season. kadri could've returned something better this upcoming off season if we kept him.

I was thinking about the current season in terms of the blueline vacancy. Tough to know if Kadri's trade value would have increased, decreased or stayed the same. He'd have less money remaining on his contract. He would also be a season closer to UFA. NTC is the same and could go either way (he apparently rejected Calgary but waived for Colorado).

 

[Dekes For Days]

Is there anyone who wouldn't undo this trade if they could?

Most wouldn't, including me. It was a good and necessary trade.
This forum is not representative of the majority of Leaf fans.

 

[rent free]

Aren't we an even worse team this year at the 71 game mark than we were last year?

yup.

 

[4thline]

Aren't we an even worse team this year at the 71 game mark than we were last year?

But better than where we'd be if we were playing some sub 1.75 million dollar dman 24+ minutes a night while Rielly/Muzzin/Ceci were out.

Kadri would/should have deservedly lost his PP1 spot to Nylander, and at this point in his career doesn't actually bring much more than Kerfoot at evens in the 3C spot. Maybe could have been a difference making moving to LW when both AJ and Soup were out, but that wasn't a likely move.

Personally the trade I wanted was for Kerfoot+1st, or other 3C downgrade + futures then roll with a cheap defense and hope to avoid injuries to the D. Doing so an nabbing Shattenkirk would have been perfect, and way better than what happened, but we had no idea he'd become available.

We didn't avoid injuries, and while my preference would have been better long term we would have been euchred this year.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

yup.

Ah OK, so I guess I can say that Barrie is a big part of the team getting worse too.Thanks for confirming that standings question for me bud.

 

[rent free]

Ah OK, so I guess I can say that Barrie is a big part of the team getting worse too.Thanks for confirming that standings question for me bud.

i don't think thats true. while we do have fewer points than we did last season a the game 71 mark, our goaltending has been the main reason why we are worse than last season points wise. from hutchinson to andersen struggling, our goalies haven't been at their norms which really hurt us. over this season we've been a better defensive club.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

i don't think thats true. while we do have fewer points than we did last season a the game 71 mark, our goaltending has been the main reason why we are worse than last season points wise. from hutchinson to andersen struggling, our goalies haven't been at their norms which really hurt us. over this season we've been a better defensive club.

I agree with you but you’re actually making my point. It’s not as simple as just saying somebody is a big part of their success/failures just by saying we’re in a playoff spot. Just like me saying he’s made us worse comparing standings from last year to now.

 

[4thline]

I agree with you but you’re actually making my point. It’s not as simple as just saying somebody is a big part of their success/failures just by saying we’re in a playoff spot. Just like me saying he’s made us worse comparing standings from last year to now.

Or you could, you know, read the reply.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Most wouldn't, including me. It was a good and necessary trade.
This forum is not representative of the majority of Leaf fans.

It was probably 50/5o when deal got done .. me being in the 2 thumbs up camp ... but almost everybody now after watching him play this year sees it as a terrible deal ... he is like a smaller weaker version of Gards but much worse defensively (which is hard to even write)

 

[BrannigansLaw]

Or you could, you know, read the reply.

Ah yeah you edited your reply to be more than one sentence long since I posted that. I'll give it a read

 

[BrannigansLaw]

But better than where we'd be if we were playing some sub 1.75 million dollar dman 24+ minutes a night while Rielly/Muzzin/Ceci were out.

Kadri would/should have deservedly lost his PP1 spot to Nylander, and at this point in his career doesn't actually bring much more than Kerfoot at evens in the 3C spot. Maybe could have been a difference making moving to LW when both AJ and Soup were out, but that wasn't a likely move.

Personally the trade I wanted was for Kerfoot+1st, or other 3C downgrade + futures then roll with a cheap defense and hope to avoid injuries to the D. Doing so an nabbing Shattenkirk would have been perfect, and way better than what happened, but we had no idea he'd become available.

We didn't avoid injuries, and while my preference would have been better long term we would have been euchred this year.

I agree with your preferred trade. I would've liked to see something similar; a long term asset of value included. And I'm not going to debate Kadri losing his PP spot, you're right about that. I still disagree with you about him having a big impact on our standings just because he was physically on the ice for 24+ minutes a night when they were out. His defensive play is about as bad as it gets.

 

[Dekes For Days]

It was probably 50/5o when deal got done .. me being in the 2 thumbs up camp ... but almost everybody now after watching him play this year sees it as a terrible deal ...

It was overwhelmingly seen as a massive win at the time, by Leafs fans, and by literally everybody in all corners of the hockey world. Now, with hindsight, the large majority still see it as an overall beneficial move; the large majority just aren't on HFboards, which skews heavily in the negative.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

It was overwhelmingly seen as a massive win at the time, by Leafs fans, and by literally everybody in all corners of the hockey world. Now, with hindsight, the large majority still see it as an overall beneficial move; the large majority just aren't on HFboards, which skews heavily in the negative.

I guess you must be the other end of that spectrum. The guy with blue and white homer glass on.

As if the majority opinion, whoever they are, of random people means anything.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I guess you must be the other end of that spectrum. The guy with blue and white homer glass on.

No, I'm the one that uses facts and data to come to my conclusions, instead of emotion and regurgitation of horrible sports media.

 

[All Mod Cons]

I guess you must be the other end of that spectrum. The guy with blue and white homer glass on.

As if the majority opinion, whoever they are, of random people means anything.

Yeah there's only about a dozen Leafs fans that will defend this trade. Even the most staunchest of Dubas' fans have given up on this one. If you know anything about hockey you know what an awful short-sighted trade this was.

 

[4thline]

I agree with your preferred trade. I would've liked to see something similar; a long term asset of value included. And I'm not going to debate Kadri losing his PP spot, you're right about that. I still disagree with you about him having a big impact on our standings just because he was physically on the ice for 24+ minutes a night when they were out. His defensive play is about as bad as it gets.

But his ability to push play up ice is upper echelon and the result was the ability to play neutral in those minutes. Something a Del Zotto or other cheap UFA wouldn't have been able to do.

Looking strictly at trade vs no trade there's a very real case to be made that no trade = no playoffs.
Dermott-Holl
Marincin-xxxx
Sandin-Liljegren

with xxx being random filler doesn't hold up was well through that stretch as with Barrie there. If we swap Kerfoot+Barrie straight across for Kadri+1.75m or less dman there's a good chance we're not in the playoffs given the way our D was decimated. It's not even about Tyson Barrie specifically, just that we got a dman of that ability for this season. You can argue about hypothetical options or other long term impacts, or that the deal wasn't as positive as originally hoped, but it did make a positive difference this season IMO, and with playoffs likely upcoming we don't know the extent of that.

 

[kb]

more expensive yes, but only by a small amount and also a much more valuable player. we'd have also saved cap space this past season.

the vacancy on the blueline is still here though because barrie is unsigned for next season. kadri could've returned something better this upcoming off season if we kept him.

How do you save money when you keep a more expensive player (Kadri) who is not suited for the role, and still have a hole to fill on the blueline??

 

[kb]

Who said it wasn't the right time? I said you don't waste an asset like that for a liability like Barrie

Keeping Kadri in a role that he clearly didn't perform well in would be a waste. Then try to trade him after that......immovable.

 

[kb]

It's still happening now. Look at the post I responded too above yours.

It was always Kadri's fault for getting suspended.

 

[kb]

Aren't we an even worse team this year at the 71 game mark than we were last year?

You mean the heavily injured team vs the completely healthy team?

 

[rent free]

How do you save money when you keep a more expensive player (Kadri) who is not suited for the role, and still have a hole to fill on the blueline??

you save money by allocating less than 6.25 (kerfoot and barrie's combined cap hit for the leafs this past season) towards a C and a D. since kadri costs 4.5M, you find a blueliner who makes less than 1.75M. can't be too hard since the leafs got barrie at under 3 and he wasn't all that as a maple leaf

 

[BertCorbeau]

you save money by allocating less than 6.25 (kerfoot and barrie's combined cap hit for the leafs this past season) towards a C and a D. since kadri costs 4.5M, you find a blueliner who makes less than 1.75M. can't be too hard since the leafs got barrie at under 3 and he wasn't all that as a maple leaf

Welp, I found your problem.

 

[kb]

Welp, I found your problem.

Geez, I too was unaware there were tons of $1.75 million RD who can play in the top-4 available.