Barkov vs Matthews

[Laineux]

He had 5 shorthanded goals last season...

Can we assume that Matthews would/could score five shorthanded goals?

 

[TheDoldrums]

Can we assume that Matthews would/could score five shorthanded goals?

No.

Did you read the quote I referenced? How does it not help his offensive numbers if 5 of his 27 goals were scored there?

 

[tacogeoff]

pretty much dead even in my books.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

He had 5 shorthanded goals last season...

Good point. This just proves Barkov is even better then right now. Thanks.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

They are dead even atm. Voted Barkov but it’s super close. Matthews should be better moving forward.

 

[LeafGrief]

TOIQoC 5v5
Bergeron 29.83
Coutourier 29.71
Matthews 29.71
Backstrom 29.67
Barkov 29.61


Please tell me more about how Barkov plays tougher minutes. Barkov may do better in those minutes defensively than Matthews in his, for example he has a higher CF and CFrel, but he's not out playing 4 extra minutes a night against elite competition. 135 minutes of PK in a season aren't dragging down his offensive totals either.

The defensive zone minutes argument cracks me up too. If Barkov is an elite defensive player, which he absolutely is, and he gets sent out for a defensive zone start there is a very real chance that he and his line mates will obtain the puck and have the chance to go create offense. If he isn't able to create offense out of defensive zone face offs, he shouldn't be a Selke nominee. Fortunately for everyone involved, he is elite and routinely does create offense.

If their offensive per60 numbers were close, i would buy those arguments for why Barkov is similar offensively, but they really aren't close at all.
PP p/60
Matthews 5.89
Barkov 3.64

5on5 p/60
Matthews 2.93
Barkov 2.18

Barkov is an outstanding offensive player in his own right, but I do not think that his usage is a compelling argument for calling the two equivalent offensively. Barkov is an elite player and an elite player with extra minutes is going to score more points. Matthews is an elite player and with extra minutes he would score more points than Barkov. Barkov is better defensively, Matthews is better offensively and it's pretty cut and dried that way tbh. I have no issue with people calling Barkov the better player, but there is a lot of jumping through hoops to try and paint them as offensive equals.

 

[TheDoldrums]

Barkov is better defensively, Matthews is better offensively and it's pretty cut and dried that way tbh. I have no issue with people calling Barkov the better player, but there is a lot of jumping through hoops to try and paint them as offensive equals.

This is a perfect summation.

 

[bionic]

If I were the leafs GM I would never trade Matthews for Barkov. So my answer is Matthews.

 

[Laineux]

No.

Did you read the quote I referenced? How does it not help his offensive numbers if 5 of his 27 goals were scored there?

If scoring shorthanded goals is Barkov's specialty, it should be considered a net positive in relation to Matthews, not something to take away from him just because he gets those minutes. It's an offensive gift of his that (we can assume) Matthews doesn't have.

It does help his offensive numbers.

 

[TheDoldrums]

If scoring shorthanded goals is Barkov's specialty, it should be considered a net positive in relation to Matthews, not something to take away from him just because he gets those minutes. It's an offensive gift of his that (we can assume) Matthews doesn't have.

It does help his offensive numbers.

I'm not taking anything away from Barkov. I won't even argue against people that would select him in this poll, even if I might disagree. My only point in this exchange was your final sentence.

 

[Notsince67]

If scoring shorthanded goals is Barkov's specialty, it should be considered a net positive in relation to Matthews, not something to take away from him just because he gets those minutes. It's an offensive gift of his that (we can assume) Matthews doesn't have.

It does help his offensive numbers.

Damn. You have me there. Matthews should have scored sometime within the 1.27 minutes he played on the PK over the whole season.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Voted Matthews and voting anything good for the leafs causes my soul to start dying

it simple terms

Matthews has scored 74 goals in 2 years --hitting 40 and 34
Barkov has never topped 30 goals in a year in 5 years in play

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Jesus 60 point players get overrated these days.

Matthews has hit 60 points in each of his two seasons so far though. Barkov only has gotten 60 points in one out of five. So I guess you have to go with Matthews here, since at least he can get to 60

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Leafs fans are now saying Barkov playing on the PK is an advantage to Matthews because he is good at it and Matthews is not. Can't be more imaginative made up excuses.

 

[Nick Hansen]

The sad truth is that the Leafs don't have any top 10 center.

Barkov for me.

 

[slimbob8]

The sad truth is that the Leafs don't have any top 10 center.

Barkov for me.

What's sad is this post. I can understand preferring Barkov over Matthews sure, but even the most biased of Leaf haters you'd think would be capable of admitting at least one of Tavares/Matthews is a top 10 C because that's pretty indisputable.

 

[Nick Hansen]

What's sad is this post. I can understand preferring Barkov over Matthews sure, but even the most biased of Leaf haters you'd think would be capable of admitting at least one of Tavares/Matthews is a top 10 C because that's pretty indisputable.

McDavid
Crosby
Malkin
MacKinnon
Bergeron
Kopitar
Scheifele
Getzlaf
Seguin
Stamkos

 

[Atomos2]

McDavid
Crosby
Malkin
MacKinnon
Bergeron
Kopitar
Scheifele
Getzlaf
Seguin
Stamkos

Getting desperate, Seguin and Getzlaf aren’t better than Tavares.

 

[Master P]

Getting desperate, Seguin and Getzlaf aren’t better than Tavares.

I don't know about that. I'd take any of those players listed over Tavares. But thats just me.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Getting desperate, Seguin and Getzlaf aren’t better than Tavares.

There's an argument that they are. Getzlaf produces relatively similar, but provides much more physicality/defense. And Seguin has been producing about on par with him the past handful of seasons.

I'm not necessarily saying either argument is 100% right or wrong, but this idea that Tavares is a clear cut above them isn't based on anything tangible.

 

[missionAvs]

Barkov now for sure but wouldn't be surprised to see this change in the future.

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

McDavid
Crosby
Malkin
MacKinnon
Bergeron
Kopitar
Scheifele
Getzlaf
Seguin
Stamkos

I made a similar list and was told it was horrible. I wasn’t told exactly why it was horrible, to suggest these players were better than Matthews, but still

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Obviously Barkov is better now. Even Leafs fans will admit that. But Matthews is young and projected as a future franchise player, he could still catch and surpass him one day.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

McDavid
Crosby
Malkin
MacKinnon
Bergeron
Kopitar
Scheifele
Getzlaf
Seguin
Stamkos

Good list. I’d add Barkov if we are talking just Matthews.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

What's sad is this post. I can understand preferring Barkov over Matthews sure, but even the most biased of Leaf haters you'd think would be capable of admitting at least one of Tavares/Matthews is a top 10 C because that's pretty indisputable.

You can certainly argue that Tavares is a top 10. I don’t really see any credible argument that Matthews is a top 10 at this point though. I’d hope that even the more exuberant Leaf fans would acknowledge that.